General queries

Parapara2017

I've got a red car, and I care for it pretty well.... But had been / did it poorly.

Had it for almost a year about 9 months or so from new.

I wash it regularly using two bucket method - no grit guards which I'm buying now.

I usually use 2 maybe 3 cleaning cloths / mop head thingy ( like a microfibre loofa can't describe it ant better...) I rinse it regularly but how many cloths should you use per wash? Are standard microfibre cloths better than the microfibre mop head? I usually just use any microfibre cloth, eg from supermarkets / halfords / ebay.

Problem is.... Its got a lot of light scratches everywhere.... It looks great unless close im direct sunlight. But honestly I don't know why its so bad...

What am I missing here? I don't wash in circles, rinse off regularly and change the rinsing water. Don't use dirty cloths...

The colour it is really makes the imperfections stand our when up close as well.

Have been using simoniz wash and wax shampoo but I'm gonna try something else now thay the bottle is basically gone. I didn't find it very sudsy. I have clay, haven't invested in detarring or ironx etc as clay seems to get any small tar spots that do appear out. Got a new pressure washer recently that came with a foam attachment so I am gonna invest in some snow foam.

Tempted to get a DA or something to try buff out all of the light/fine scratches but really have no experience with them so...

Advice is appreciated.

Curran

Your intentions are good but it appears you are making quite a few little mistakes or choosing the slightly wrong products for the job.
Can you take a picture of what you use to wash the paintwork....the mop heady thingy, you mention.

A perfect example of where you are going slightly wrong, would be chosen the using clay to lift tar; which contains fine grit which you would be dragging across the hehe surface causing swirls....I know you haven't done this, but it's the slight mistakes, all together, over and over that have resulted in your current condition of paintwork.

We'll be able to set you straight though!

edburg

Invest in a proper wash mitt, have just got a incredimitt myself find it very good.

Swirl marks are most likely down to lack grit guard and using fine microfiber cloths. Claying larger items of car possibly not helped either, should be used for very fine stuff that fallout and tar remover can't get rid of.

So invest in a fall out and tar remover.

With out knowing your pressure washer and attachments I will suggest you may find a proper snow foam lance a benefit in future.


Your in right direction just need couple minor changes


Swirl mark's can't always be avoided at end of day but the right methods can reduce the possibility drastically.

Parapara2017

The car is filthy but i'm getting an order from detailing shed, amazon and halfords over the next week.

Got bilt hamber snow foam, auto wash, cleanser polish, finis wax and hyrda wax.

Got a snow foam lance attachment coming from amazon.

And have some halfords brand cloths, applicstor pads and wool mit coming.

Scratch might be hard to see but they're hard to pick up its very fine scratches.

Hoping the polish will fill them in, don't wanna try my hand at correcting them properly 😌

So its worth the investment of fallout / tsr remover? Could you recommend one? I've seen ammo videos of a spray foam thats left on then turns purple. Any that can be done through the foam lance?

Parapara2017

Karcher K Series - Snow Foam Lance By Detailers United - FREE 12 Month Warranty https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01EVLG264/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_l6EczbP3BTRNG lance i ordered.

Curran

Good news is that the swirls dont look too bad and hand polish should do a reasonable job at hiding them.

Things Ive noted from your pictures...
- The wash mitt could be better, its an entry level wash mitt; you want something with a deep pile to allow dirt and grit be absorbed into it, rather than dragged across the surface. With the noddle mitt, its certainly better than a sponge, but plenty room for improvement in the limiting of swirls.
- Some of the microfibers you have, are not ideal for paintwork - fine for interior jobs, or working around door jambs, etc, but on panels, they will inflict minor damage (and as mentioned its all the minor damage compounded that gives and overall poor appearance)

The Halfords cloths, applicators and mitt, may be an improvement on the above, but again, there may be room for improvement.

The lance; 12 month warranty is a nice backup, but who pays for the return if the goods are defective; sometimes its best to buy local, so there is no issue on returns. Though, Id imagine it will be fine - be sure to ensure you flush out the lance after each use so it doesnt become clogged over time.

Are fallout / tar removers worth the investment - 100% - tar should be removed without wiping, as this risks damage. Fallout removers, remove bonded contamination that regular washing cant remove, and its on a microscopic level; so while you cant actually see the contamination, it is being removed, and when the paintwork is fully cleanse, the paintwork will look dramatically improved, even without polishing (though, on a fairly new car, this wouldnt be as dramatic as say a 4 year old car that wasnt ever cared for).
Yes, it can be done through a lance, CarPro IronX SnowSoap can be used through a lance, but it works out quite expensive, for not a whole lot of work saved - its as easy to apply it straight from the bottle of a regular fallout remover. Also, through the lance wont be as concentrated, so removal wont be as effective.

Parapara2017

What are some good entry level microfibre cloths? I always thought they would mostly be the same...

Not too keen on paying a lot per cloth etc

Curran

Look for a GSM number....Grams per Sq. Meter.
Wouldn't put anything less than 350gsm near paintwork. Anything without a GSM advertised isn't worth considering as it's unlikely to be anywhere close. Cloths should also be edgeless and no labels on them.

KKD have some nice microfibers for reasonable money. It's not something worthat cutting corners on....swirl your paintwork and it's costly for a machine polisher or to pay someone to fix it. Anything contacting your paintwork is worth investing in.....wash mitt, drying towel, microfiber cloths, applicators, etc

Parapara2017

So got my first order from detailing shed (need to maake another now !) Got the hydra wax which came with a microfibre cloth which on the Bilt hamber website says it comes with and to use it to buff off. So i assume thats alright for that.

Got finis wax which says it comes with an applicator and the polish - not sure if one is meant to come with it but only got one anyway. Problem is the finis is very small... Smaller than I would have thought (although did say 50ml)

So with the finis wax and applicator... I will obviously need a second applicator to use for the polish (and do I need separate cloths to buff off / wipe down the hydra and finis wax? A quick run down on how to properly apply and buff off would be appreciated!

How do I go about getting the finis wax on the pad... As you can see its much smaller I imagine you'd need the whole pad to have some wax on it to avoid dry applicator pad damaging / trapping dirt rubbing on your paint?

Now onto the wash plan...

I had originally planned to rinse, snow foam, rinse, hand wash, rinse, clay (using the shampoo and mitt to lubricate the clay and paint like i saw in an ammo video) then rinse, dry, apply polish cleanser, buff off (I think thats all I need to do? Wipe off the polish?) Then apply finis wax, maybe two layers? Then the hydra on top as some reviews recommend. But now adding tar remover (same thing for removing sap etc yeah? Eg car pro tarx?) It says to apply it to dry paintwork, and to spread around the panel with a microfibre but if the car isnt washed wont that damage the paint? How should I incorporate that step?

Although, im considering if I should apply hydra first then finis as that is the better one for shine etc?

So two layers of each sound reasonable? My first wax attempt with simoniz original canuba wax didn't go so well but I was using a cloth to apply and I think I applied too much and was very hard to buff off and didn't manage to buff off a few spots.

So the hydra is liquid, lets say if that goes first (if correct) i apply a little to the pad (cover it, put a circle of it around the pad?) Then apply a thin layer - you only need to reapply to the pad once you can't see the paint hazing with the wax correct? Then allow to cure for recommended time, buff off, same again, then start the same process with the finis?

Other problem is I don't have anywhere indoors. I will be working in a very unshaded driveway under a lot trees and plants dust etc around with direct sunlight... So how do I go about waxing if the car will be sitting in the sun all day - same for the polish, they all say don't use in direct sunlight and make sure the paint isn't hot, don't allow to dry etc. But if the polish and wax need to sit before puffing etc....

So my new DS order will be a white monster for drying(http://www.detailingshed.com/drying-towels-microfibres/477-the-white-monster.html)

Then I guess random ones? There is so much choice! I will get a blue sheep wash mitt for hand washing.(http://www.detailingshed.com/washing/478-the-blue-sheep-wash-mitt.html) Maybe use the halfords wool mitt for the lower down parts of the panels that will be dirtier?

I need a microfibre for washing the hard to reach parts of the car, the emblem, handles, corners at the front and back, edges etc. With so much choice though... would something like http://www.detailingshed.com/drying-towels-microfibres/146-chemical-guys-el-gordo-towel.html be suitable? Or any recommendation for that role?

The waxer microfibre (http://www.detailingshed.com/drying-towels-microfibres/474-the-waxer.html) for buffing off the finis wax (hydra has a microfibre already). Should I get two of these as I need something for the polish buffing or would something like this http://www.detailingshed.com/drying-towels-microfibres/201-chemical-guys-chubby-microfiber-cloth.html be more suited. Or anyone with any recommendations!

http://www.halfords.ie/motoring/car-cleaning/sponges-brushes-buckets/halfords-car-polish-applicator-pads-pack-of-2 will these be ok for the polish and hydra application? Should I get the mini applicator from detailing shed to use for the finis wax?

I don't think I NEED the ironx / fallout remover just yet... Its not that old doesnt do a lot of heavy driving and even the wheels are very easy to keep clean with regular washing. Will make the punch to my bank account a little easier :P

Going to leave the halfords microfibres, polishing cloths, soft towel, noodle wash mitt.

Also can / should the waxes be applied to the alloys? If so which one / both? And same technique of layers or just one? Getting meguirs endurance high gloss tyre protection as well - first time trying anything for the tyres.

Anything I havent thought of / missing? Theres a lot in there thanks for any advice its really appreciated! Looking forward to spending a day doing it.

Parapara2017

So quick additions... Got two spray heads in the order don't know what they're for....? I mean I would gueas they screw onto the bottle of wax and polish but...

Also the grit guard that came with the two bucket kit from DS seems a bit small for the bucket? Is this a problem? Maybe about a cm gap from the edge when in the centre. Thought it would be a snug fit.

Even assembled the legs wont touch the walls? If you try put the legs further out it doesn't slot into place on the main guard...

Bucket is standard 20L on DS.


Also just thought the scratch shield logo being covered in scratches straight outta the packet was a bit funny :P

edburg

Feck that's a lot to read on phone with one eye half open hahaha

OK yes tin small for finis wax or it is compared to mine but mine few years old now.

You will just have lightly rub applicator few times to get as much coverage.

You're right with first thoughts couple layers of finis wax on first, finis gives good deep shine on my astra not sure hydra wax is really needed immediately.

So I say do finis leave it an hour look car over if you are happy with finish then keep hydra as a top up wax use it say every 4-6 weeks (maybe 8).

As for application of hydra to applicator add a blob to centre of pad then fold over to spread around pad, as known as butterfly effect by Larry (ammo) on his video's.

End of answer 1 I now need to look over your posts to see what's next

edburg

Wash plan sounds good personally I would another wash after claying as it can sometimes dry before I get to rinse. But that maybe more to my physical issues and don't move as quick as I once did.

As for tar-x I would disagree with the rubbing it in bit myself but Curran would be better person to answer that one.

I also disagree with your iron -x comment, although new the car has traveled a lot to get to you on backs of lorries etc and soon gathers a collection of fall out. Also I suspect dealer has not used a iron fall out remover as part of its new car inspection. Although few have started to.


On outdoor bit it is what is, unless you go out buy house with garage you use what you have like rest of us.

I would suggest working at the cooler times of day like getting out between 8.30 and 11 and after 6pm when the suns has lost its heat.

edburg

Microfibers, as Curran said keep them above 300 on fluffy gauge you should be good, however I suggest you will need more than 1 for each stage or you will get point the cloth will be clogged up and you will rubbing car with polish/wax dust rather than microfiber.

I currently own about I would suggest about 50 plush and well over 50 general microfibers, using at very least dozen of each during a proper session.


Lambswool mitts can be harder to care for I suggested it before but I'd say an incredimitt be better all round option for use, caring and longevity.


Grit guards feet are adjustable for better fit to buckets, think 2 of them should be able to st stick out by couple cm.

edburg

I go with tar-x for spray heads but that complete guess.

Curran the man to answer that.

I am also guessing I covered your questions but I dunno I still only have one open, the dogs barking at mouse farts and I got no cup of tea. Joys of being pooped after long day detailing the work horse for first time in over a year :pac:

edburg

Bucket not bucket's??

Have you 1 or 2, do you know 2 bucket method of dumping hand in shampoo bucket, sploshing on car wafting around then dumping mitt in to second bucket of clean water to hopefully release any dirt in to then repeating until car washed.


Oh yes wax on wheels, yes you can but won't last as long, better to have specific wheel sealant for longevity.

yannakis

Can I piggyback and ask 2 questions that might actually also be useful for OP?

- How do you care for the washmitts/microfibre towels? Do you wash them with normal clothes detergent without softener, or use another kind of soap? Is any separation needed? Is it ok to wash together with household (ie kitchen) towels?

- I see mentions of Tar-x and Iron-x. Has anyone used CarPro TRIX that (in theory) combines both functions?

edburg

yannakis wrote: »

Can I piggyback and ask 2 questions that might actually also be useful for OP?

- How do you care for the washmitts/microfibre towels? Do you wash them with normal clothes detergent without softener, or use another kind of soap? Is any separation needed? Is it ok to wash together with household (ie kitchen) towels?

- I see mentions of Tar-x and Iron-x. Has anyone used CarPro TRIX that (in theory) combines both functions?

Hell no go get your own post :pac: :pac:


I personally have a dedicated microfiber/pad wash and detergent, takes a couple session to get full load normally. Got my detergent from Autobrite but sure there chemical guys and other variants out there to

TRIX well there other lads that are using car pro than me that will say for sure but I will guess its a diluted mix for everyday washing of car rather than a dedicated one for the tougher jobs.



To go back to previous comment on how many microfibers, this is typical load (plus a load applicators as wasnt sure how clean they were) after 2 recent sessions, 1 easy and yesterdays tough job on everyday car.

Parapara2017

Thanks ed!

That is a lot of microfibres ðŸ˜

This might be of some help to the poster asking about washing them; https://youtu.be/FhZBikIIbPo

http://reddit.com/r/AutoDetailing/comments/693tvu/how_to_wash_your_microfiber_towels_detalks/

Just on the buckets and grit guards, they can't be extended any further so the legs aren't touch the wall and it would be like the flow of water would cause it to spin. I thought the idea was that they stop the water at the bottom swirling around? I have two, bought the bundle of detailing shed.

If I get iron x and tar. X how do I apply it? Lightly mist the whole car or do a few contaminated spots? In what order and at what stage of the wash?

Parapara2017

Anyone have any dealings with these guys?

http://www.paragonmicrofibre.ie/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwxbDIBRCL99Wls-nLicoBEiQAWroh6hidPByJ5CwCswtqH4lSWbu2WVNpftQCqN7NOof1lFEaAhhb8P8HAQ

Fantastic prices compared to other places selling branded towels etc. Especially for bulk buys!

Shipping and VAT does bring it up a little bit but 12 pick and mix cloths comes to 63.12 as opposed to 44.70 for 6 from detailing shed. Some cloths for as low as under 2euro all with good and advertised GSM. Check it out.

edburg

Tarx and iron x will come after snow foam rinse.

I tend to stick to lower section on side every 4 weeks and full car on full session detail days, twice a year.

Spray on let dwell 2-4 mins (depends on weather, do not let dry) and then rinse.

Iron
Rinse
Tar
Rinse

Tar spots may need second go on certain spots.

To often most likely reduce durability of any wax/sealant.


As for grit guards I leave that to Curran, as don't know which ones they are.

MaceFace

If the grit guards from detailingshed, you can make them bigger so they don't even fit, so you can get a good fit. I think it is down to making sure you put the legs in order as they are numbered and starting at a particular point.

I saw a post on a different forum from the CarPro support guys who reported that the IronX/TarX will reduce protection (wax) you have on the car by 50%.

I also put my microfibers in the machine for 1 hour quick run without detergent at 40C. 60C should also be fine for MFs.

Parapara2017

What do you mean reduce effectiveness of sealant and wax? Do you if you use them after a wax?

Eg my full detail planned which will end with a wax won't be affected. It would just be if I did it again without applying more wax?

Grit guards are assembled correctly and can't be adjusted more.

Decided to stick with bilt hamber and get the korrosol fallout remover and KKD tartastic gel - i assume I will judt rinse this off demo video showed them wiping it.

MaceFace

Parapara2017 wrote: »

What do you mean reduce effectiveness of sealant and wax? Do you if you use them after a wax?

Eg my full detail planned which will end with a wax won't be affected. It would just be if I did it again without applying more wax?

Grit guards are assembled correctly and can't be adjusted more.

Decided to stick with bilt hamber and get the korrosol fallout remover and KKD tartastic gel - i assume I will judt rinse this off demo video showed them wiping it.

RE: effectiveness. Apols, but yes, if you apply Iron X on to a waxed car, it "will affect wax layer by 50%" (link)

edburg

Parapara2017 wrote: »

What do you mean reduce effectiveness of sealant and wax? Do you if you use them after a wax?

Eg my full detail planned which will end with a wax won't be affected. It would just be if I did it again without applying more wax?

Grit guards are assembled correctly and can't be adjusted more.

Decided to stick with bilt hamber and get the korrosol fallout remover and KKD tartastic gel - i assume I will judt rinse this off demo video showed them wiping it.

As you say won't effect your original layer as your adding after the fall out remover etc

Its later washes to be wary about, its one reason why I suggested the hydra wax as a top up after your 4-6 week wash. Durability will be reduced maybe visual effect of beading of the wax.

Rest of Wash's inbetween will be basic snow foam and 2 bucket method.

As said with tar remover more of a touch less wash for me, I wouldn't be rubbing it microfiber, maybe a detail brush for agitating. I just let the stuff do its job myself, sip some tea ready to rinse off with pressure washer.

Curran

Woah; missed out on quite a few questions here, and not got time right now to reply to all!
I'll do it later!

In the meantime, if questions have remained unanswered, it'll be easier if I answer those, so put them up below; as there is quite a lot in the past few posts!! :P

Parapara2017

Just the big long posts on page 1! Its really on the one post don't worry nothing really unanswered in the rest.

Technique for applying the polish and waxes ie what to do when and after polish is applied.

And if you look at the pictures my concerns about the grit guards not touching the sides of the bucket so they spin with the water - meaning they're not stopping the water and dirt swirling?

And any dealings with paragonmicrofibre.ie?

So quick recap;

I have my wash mitt (incredimitt was sold out so got the blue wool one) and also got a microfibre one from paragon (400-500gsm if i remember correctly?)

Got some drying towels from paragon and buffing cloths. Buffing are 500gsm, drying is 600 and 1000. General purpose ones are 300gsm.

Got some microfibre applicators as well - are they any good? Heard concerns they just absorb the product. If you see the pictures I got one foam one with the polish cleanser. And i paid the 2euro or whatever for the mini applicator from DS because of how small the finis tin is, but wonder would normal size still do. Im imaging how tedious doing a car with a tiny applicator could be.

So rinse, snowfoam, let it dry a little(?), Ironx, rinse, then the kkd tartastic gel stuff, rinse(?), Bilt hamber auto wash hand wash, rinse. Clay using the auto wash as lubricant technique with squeezing the mitt etc. Then rinse and dry.

Now onto the trickier bits.... Polish application... Using the foam pad pictured, pour onto the pad rub in and apply in overlapping circles until the whole panel is covered (alternating pressure depending on scratches, light to medium?) Allow to dry to a haze (what does that mean? Also in the sun how do i deal with it not drying on?) Then buff off with the provided cloth.

Do i need to do multiple polish runs? Or one and then hydra wax one layer vs two? Then finis wax one layer or two?

And same advice on how to apply hydra and finis wax please!

Parapara2017

Full list of gear excluding meguirs tyre gel and the foam gun. Don't think I need to get the other cloths etc from halfords now. Maybe some more applicators? A few weeeks ago ordered yellow sponge ones off ebay, the generic ones that are.like 2e for 12. Would they be ok to use when they finally arrive?

Anything i'm missing? Jaysus though, hobbies are expensive... I need to start on DAs and cutting pads next 😂

Curran

Technique for applying the polish and waxes...

Prime the applicator with polish (ensure the whole surface has polish on it) then apply a few small blobs, and work into the paintwork. Depending on the day you are doing it, it may need to be buffed off by the time you finish one panel, or if a dull day, you might be able to do the whole car and then buff.....you dont want it caked in, for the sake of your arms. A way to check if its ready to buff is to wipe your finger on the area and if it comes off without any streaking, or wetness, then its ready to buff.
Waxes are much the same - all products will vary the amount of time required to cure so just keep an eye on where you started, and once that is ready, buff all that youve applied (might be 2 panels) and then apply to two panels, and then go back and buff, etc


On the Scratch Shields not touching the edges of the bucket; the tabs at the bottom of the guard are adjustable...move them outwards to suit the size of the bucket - they are designed to be used with various sized buckets. There is no issue with the 'rings' of the guard not touching the outside as they are only preventing you putting the mitt to the bottom of the bucket, the 'tabs' are to prevent swirlling up the dirt from the bottom.

Ive no dealings with paragonmicrofibre.ie

Getting product onto the applicator from a smaller tin - it can be a bit awkward, but if the applicator is a bit larger than the tin, it doesnt mean it cant be used - spend a bit of time ensuring the applicator is fully primed, then a light wipe of one section of the applicator in the tub should be sufficient.

So rinse, snowfoam, let it dry a little(?), Ironx, rinse, then the kkd tartastic gel stuff, rinse(?), Bilt hamber auto wash hand wash, rinse. Clay using the auto wash as lubricant technique with squeezing the mitt etc. Then rinse and dry.

Snowfoam, rinse, wash, rinse, let drip dry, tar remove, rinse, let drip dry, iron/fallout remover, rinse, clay, wash, rinse, dry, polish, buff, wax, buff

Do i need to do multiple polish runs? Or one and then hydra wax one layer vs two? Then finis wax one layer or two?

No you dont need to, but you can - but the Laws of Diminishing returns apply; anything after the first application isnt really going to change the overall appearance by so much that its worth the effort put in

Again, same type of application as the polish, for Hydra Wax and Finis Wax. The usual rules of thumb is two layers, more so to ensure 100% coverage (no matter how careful you are, you'll miss the odd spot)....but thats usually, two layers of the same product - you could do one of each, two of each, or I'd do two Hydra and 1 Finis

A few weeeks ago ordered yellow sponge ones off ebay, the generic ones that are.like 2e for 12. Would they be ok to use when they finally arrive?

Do not put them anywhere near your paintwork - they will be fine for tyre dressing application or on the dash, etc, but they WILL mark your paintwork!

edburg

Must have got these ages ago and forgot about them :pac: be handy for size for you. They be in halfords so easy enough to get hold of.

Just fit in smaller wax jars (used one Saturday) couple twists n away.

Parapara2017

Even those are too big lol

I'll attach the size of the applicstor i got...

Whats the difference between the sponge applicators like these I got at halfords and the ones from ebay?

Do I need to bother taping things? I've seen concerns about korrosol / tar removers staining plastics / fading them.

And on the griot guards the problem is the adjustable legs, they can't be adjusted to a point they touch the walls and fit in the bucket. See pictures from earlier post.

Parapara2017

Bonus wash mitt. Smaller than I imagined.

Parapara2017

Sorry for the tripple(!) post but cant add pictures with edit on phone...

So with more messing around and water tests with the bucket and guard.... It just doesn't work...

The design of the guard isnt uniform so some legs actually can't slot in because of plastic blocking it, but on its opposite side that plastic isn't there. See the picture of the guard; theres bits of plastic when the other side doesn't have them so pieces can't slot in.

Then the actual legs... Numbered 1-4 and all legs are different sizes? None of them match? The bucket is a circle so already it will be impossible to get it to fit and sit?

And upon testing it, its not stopping things swirling around the bottom as a result, the guard is floating up slightly or spinning with the water.

Shlippery

Parapara2017 wrote: »

Sorry for the tripple(!) post but cant add pictures with edit on phone...

So with more messing around and water tests with the bucket and guard.... It just doesn't work...

The design of the guard isnt uniform so some legs actually can't slot in because of plastic blocking it, but on its opposite side that plastic isn't there. See the picture of the guard; theres bits of plastic when the other side doesn't have them so pieces can't slot in.

Then the actual legs... Numbered 1-4 and all legs are different sizes? None of them match? The bucket is a circle so already it will be impossible to get it to fit and sit?

And upon testing it, its not stopping things swirling around the bottom as a result, the guard is floating up slightly or spinning with the water.

Grit guard should be fine, I've the same one! - Will leave the other q's to the experts!

Watch the video and see if it makes sense..

Curran

The legs are adjustable so the guard suits almost any bucket. You may only have to have one tab/leg slightly off centre to make it fit snugly so it doesn't rattle about at the bottom.
Never had anyone have an issue with the scratch shields.

Parapara2017

Im probably being too ocd about it 😌