Surface Laptop

MJohnston

Not the Surface Book (which is essentially a Macbook Pro to this Macbook Air) but the Surface Laptop, an ultrabook:







Designed for the student market, but this'll be powerful enough for a lot of general consumers too.

Some stats:

• 14 hours battery life with an i5
• 13.5 inch LCD touchscreen with PixelSense (Microsoft's Retina-esque branding)
• 14.47mm at its thickest, 9.9mm thinnest. Weighs 2.76lbs.
• Works with Surface Dock, Dial, Pen
• Lowest end model with i5 starting at $999 with Windows 10 S, upgradeable to an i7 and to Windows 10 Pro.

jahalpin

If it has an i5 and at least 4GB of ram, why are Microsoft installing a cut-down version of Windows that only works with store apps?

Fingleberries

jahalpin wrote: »

If it has an i5 and at least 4GB of ram, why are Microsoft installing a cut-down version of Windows that only works with store apps?

Short Answer: Because they can.

Longer answer: They want to push the Windows Store, that's why full Office is coming to the store too.

Apparently between now and the end of 2017 you can upgrade to 'Pro' for free ... It'd cost $50 to do it after that date (but the switch is always free if you're a school)

CatInABox

It's an odd one. Lovely looking laptop, but not sure it justifies the price premium over other, similar windows laptops.

I also think that Windows 10 S is probably doomed to failure. Project Centennial and Microsofts outreach to companies to get their apps into the store has resulted in some amazing work (Kodi running as a UWP is amazing), but without Chrome and a few other applications that will never be in the Windows store, I just can't see it getting over the user acceptance hump.

MJohnston

They've got the right idea this time around though - by tying it to a genuinely desirable piece of hardware, as well as a slew of ultra-cheap, third-party (sub $200) laptops.

Windows RT had the problem of (a) Surface RT not being popularly desirable enough (b) very few other WRT devices other than Surface existing (c) introducing the doomed and confused Windows 8 interface (d) targeting a tablet market that has turned out to not really be all that big.

Even then, Google were working on a non-RT, Windows 8 Store version of Chrome (and Mozilla with Firefox too iirc). With Centennial making the development cost for launching in the W10 Store essentially zero, and a genuine audience to pitch at, I'd imagine we'll see some of those competitors crack (probably not Apple, though that's probably a good thing given their software).

I'm sure we'll also get an obligatory Gabe Newell whinge in a few days.

Anyway, the key to not dooming Windows 10 S is a good, single-line salesperson quote, they need to find that.

MJohnston

Also, the device I really want was also launched today - a new Arc Mouse. Gimme.

CatInABox

MJohnston wrote: »

I'm sure we'll also get an obligatory Gabe Newell whinge in a few days.

Nah, it's all Tim Sweeney now, he's gone pretty far off the deep end.

https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/859502015935905792

MJohnston

Right, Tim Sweeney is who I was actually thinking of. The kind of eejit who actively looks to install iTunes.

Alanstrainor

A laptop for $999 with only 4GB of RAM is an absolute joke. No matter how premium it feels it should have 8GB as a base level. It's not 2010 any more ffs.

The lack of USB C is also a bit puzzling for me. I suppose USB C isn't quite there yet, but it is only a matter of time.

It's clear this isn't aimed at power users at all, I've read that it's targeting schools and the likes. But I certainly hoped for more. My wait for a replacement laptop will continue!

me_irl

And the memes have already begun.



https://twitter.com/BenedictEvans/status/859488297847971840

MJohnston

I know many consumers will not know about this too, but it's really hard to underestimate how much of a premium that the hardware being built by Microsoft is for a Windows PC. I have a Dell and a Surface Book, and the Surface Book never has problems with hardware drivers, sleep-battery issues, conflicts, update problems, etc. Cliche I know, but "it just works TM" in a way that the Dell never does. That's worth €50-100 to me.

CatInABox

MJohnston wrote: »

I know many consumers will too, but it's really hard to underestimate how much of a premium that the hardware being built by Microsoft is for a Windows PC. I have a Dell and a Surface Book, and the Surface Book never has problems with hardware drivers, sleep-battery issues, conflicts, update problems, etc. Cliche I know, but "it just works TM" in a way that the Dell never does. That's worth €50-100 to me.

Having bought a surface book, I really don't think I could go back to another brand, I've had less problems with this than any previous windows device going back over twenty years.

On the "$50 to change this switch" post, apparently the UWP apps are more containerised on 10 S. Not sure how, but it'll probably come out over the next month.

CatInABox

https://twitter.com/tomwarren/status/859736133839835144

Haha, showing off a prototype with two USB-C sockets will annoy some people.

I actually don't mind too much. USB-C is definitely the future, but it's a future that's 5 years away from being totally mainstream. I have a Nexus 5x as my main phone, and had to get it replaced because I fried it with the wrong type of cable. Until that's not a problem anymore, then I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

MJohnston

CatInABox wrote: »

Haha, showing off a prototype with two USB-C sockets will annoy some people.

I actually don't mind too much. USB-C is definitely the future, but it's a future that's 5 years away from being totally mainstream. I have a Nexus 5x as my main phone, and had to get it replaced because I fried it with the wrong type of cable. Until that's not a problem anymore, then I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Yeah, my Lumia is USB-C and while it's nice not having to check which orientation the cable is before connecting, most of the other benefits don't apply to me, while all the disadvantages (ie. having a different connector to all the other micro-USB devices sprinkled around the house) are apparent.

I'd rather see wireless technologies mature more than another cabling standard tbh.

CatInABox

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah, my Lumia is USB-C and while it's nice not having to check which orientation the cable is before connecting, most of the other benefits don't apply to me, while all the disadvantages (ie. having a different connector to all the other micro-USB devices sprinkled around the house) are apparent.

I'd rather see wireless technologies mature more than another cabling standard tbh.

Ha, I've got something similar, I'm usually putting three phones onto charge at night, in the dark, with one of them being USB-C. I try it one way, then the other, then try it the first way again, then swap phones.

me_irl

Couple of unenthusiastic articles from Ars Technica.

About the devices... not that the articles are... Never mind.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/windows-10-s-edge-bing-default/

and...

https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/05/microsoft-surface-laptop-hands-on-review/

Bluefoam

Just signed off on one of these for work... IT guys spec'ed the most powerful version (i7, 16GB, 512GB) version so we'll see if it gets through accounts... I'm sure I'll also need the dock & a HDMI dongle... But looking forward to getting it.

F00t13f4n

Has anyone got one of these?

I'm looking at getting a new laptop and the Surface Laptop has piqued my interest. I'm looking for something that will last all day with reasonable power for normal day-to-day tasks and some light Photoshop and coding - these last two would be rare enough that I think the i5 & 4GB RAM would be adequate.

Bluefoam

Dunno, the Surface Laptop I ordered didn't turn up... instead, the good people who run our IT have ordered a Surface Book, which did arrive.

After reading them the riot act, and telling them to send it back, I now need to listen to them make excuses about how difficult it was to get the Surface Book and how the Laptop isn't available in the market...

So should I make the IT guys life difficult and demand they do their job right (will take weeks to get the laptop in), or do I let them away with their foo* up and keep the Book?

Alanstrainor

F00t13f4n wrote: »

Has anyone got one of these?

I'm looking at getting a new laptop and the Surface Laptop has piqued my interest. I'm looking for something that will last all day with reasonable power for normal day-to-day tasks and some light Photoshop and coding - these last two would be rare enough that I think the i5 & 4GB RAM would be adequate.

4GB would be a problem running photoshop tbh. I have some bottlenecks with high ram usage in my laptop from photoshop. My device has 10GB however, so I wouldn't want to go down the route of an un-upgradeable 4GB. 4GB is barely adequate today, never mind in the coming years.

The processor will definitely do what you want, but the RAM is pathetic. I've played with one of these in the shop. I'm not convinced of the covering on the keyboard either, I think it would get a bit manky after a year of use. But that may not turn out to be true.

I'd look at a Surface 4 Pro perhaps, plenty of price reductions on them recently as they are a bit old. But still very capable machines.

WhiteMemento9

Bluefoam wrote: »

Dunno, the Surface Laptop I ordered didn't turn up... instead, the good people who run our IT have ordered a Surface Book, which did arrive.

After reading them the riot act, and telling them to send it back, I now need to listen to them make excuses about how difficult it was to get the Surface Book and how the Laptop isn't available in the market...

So should I make the IT guys life difficult and demand they do their job right (will take weeks to get the laptop in), or do I let them away with their foo* up and keep the Book?

Why would you want a Surface Laptop over a Surface Book? The SB is the hugely superior device

WhiteMemento9

I don't know why one of the tag lines is targeting the Surface Laptop at students. One of the biggest selling points to students of the Surface devices is the fact that you can write with it, take notes, annotate notes all of which is not available on the Surface Laptop.

They should have named this something else entirely as it isn't really part of the Surface family of devices.

Fingleberries

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Why would you want a Surface Laptop over a Surface Book? The SB is the hugely superior device

I was thinking the same thing ... I wish our IT department would accidentally order a Surface Book for me.

Under no circumstances would I consider reading the riot act to return a SB for a Laptop.

CatInABox

I have a surface book, it's absolutely fantastic.

The minimum spec I recommend to anyone these days is an i5, 8GB ram, and a 256GB SSD. Anything less will be ok for browsing and media consumption, but for anything more, you really need the 8GB ram.

WhiteMemento9

CatInABox wrote: »

I have a surface book, it's absolutely fantastic.

The minimum spec I recommend to anyone these days is an i5, 8GB ram, and a 256GB SSD. Anything less will be ok for browsing and media consumption, but for anything more, you really need the 8GB ram.

I remember having a few different choices at the time that I needed a laptop last year. The SurfaceBook was by far the most expensive option. I eventually decided **** it, I love the bloody thing so I am just gonna suck it up and get it. Never regretted it for a second.

I use my laptop almost everyday for both work and play. I think when something is so integral to your life that choosing something which you truly love is important. Every time I open this thing I marvel at its beauty and Engineering. I am pretty sure that I would have come to resent whatever other laptop I had bought purely because it wasn't the SB. Life it too short for that so instead I get to open the Surfacebook each time bringing a smile to my face. The amount of times I have opened the lid and just stared at it for a few seconds thinking about what a good decision it was to buy it. The user experience has also been second to none.

That all seems far too gushing for an inanimate piece of electronics but it has honestly been one of the best life purchases I ever made.

Bluefoam

Looks like I'll hold onto the Surface Book... Will give an update when I figure out if its worth while...

Bluefoam

I've been using the Book for a few days now, I haven't had reason to use the pen in any sort of productive capacity... The hardware still feels like a toy... Out of place... The hinge design, removable screen etc. are just a distraction. The Surface Laptop is just a very nice piece of hardware, with clean appearance in comparison.

There are bugs every time I connect the laptop and the dock. The mouse wouldn't work this morning. The touch screen wouldn't work at the weekend. I really don't have time for that kind of messing, I need to respond to emails as soon as I get to the office.

I have the large monitor set up as the primary, however every time I return to it & connect using the dock, my apps open on different screens depending on their mood.

The IT guys cant find a cable to plug directly from the dock to the display, so they are using an extra connector/dongle, now the Book cannot recognise the screen effectively and the resolution is super low... This effects my productivity as I work on graphics intensive programs.

The Book is still an interesting device. I haven't been able to evaluate its performance fully, but it is too buggy to be used professionally. Our IT guys have done allot of work on it so far, I'll see if theres anything to solve the issues... I hope it can be solved, otherwise it's a costly mistake.

WhiteMemento9

All that is wrong is that you are not running the latest version of windows. Those were all complaints in the very early days of the SB. They have all been solved in Windows roll outs. Most peoples don't come with the latest version out of the box. Update to the latest version. Although I would say this is what the 'alot of work' your IT guys have done actually is.

Bluefoam

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

All that is wrong is that you are not running the latest version of windows. Those were all complaints in the very early days of the SB. They have all been solved in Windows roll outs. Most peoples don't come with the latest version out of the box. Update to the latest version. Although I would say this is what the 'alot of work' your IT guys have done actually is.

It is running the latest version of windows... it has been fully update by IT & I have checked the same... I have downloaded the Surface Dock Update Tool, I have now done four firmware updates, but I'm not sure if its stuck in a loop, or whether they are incremental firmware updates.

WhiteMemento9

So the computer is running Windows 10, version 1703.

I am not using the Dock so I can't help verify everything is smooth with it. I did remember seeing complaints about the dock in the early days but again I thought they had all been solved at this stage with updates as I never see anyone posting about any issues these days.

Bluefoam

Yep running latest version of windows

2017-07 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1703 for x64-based Systems (KB4032188)

I ran at least 10 rounds of firmware updates for the dock (caught in a loop)... finally got it working after a bit messing & got it to complete the update. Display Drivers still not working. I'm surprised in this day and age, a consumer level PC can't run out of the box. I'm relatively technically sufficient, but I worry about anyone non technical trying to get through this...

Bluefoam

*UPDATE: New mini display port to display port cable turned up today and immediately solved the resolution issue... I have used the pen a couple of times to mark up PDF's and photos & can reliably say that it is allot more effective than printing the documents; reviewing them; scanning them back in and emailing them.... (I bought Drawboard PDF for this purpose). It has been more than up to the task on anything I've thrown at it, including Photoshop & Illustrator.

It's still a little heavy and looks weird, but it has definitely grown on me. The doc & magnetic connection work great now that I have the display working properly.

CatInABox

Bluefoam wrote: »

*UPDATE: New mini display port to display port cable turned up today and immediately solved the resolution issue... I have used the pen a couple of times to mark up PDF's and photos & can reliably say that it is allot more effective than printing the documents; reviewing them; scanning them back in and emailing them.... (I bought Drawboard PDF for this purpose). It has been more than up to the task on anything I've thrown at it, including Photoshop & Illustrator.

It's still a little heavy and looks weird, but it has definitely grown on me. The doc & magnetic connection work great now that I have the display working properly.

Glad you're enjoying it a bit more, it's always disappointing to recommend something and hear only negative things back.