The question of Trans

SILVAMAN

Can someone explain, clearly and succinctly, the relationship between homosexuality, where sexual orientation is the issue, and transgenderism, defined in the Oxford English dictionary as "A state or condition in which a person's identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional ideas of male or female gender".
I cannot see a link, only that both groups have historically been marginalised. So have Travellers, women, non-whites....yet they are not included under the LGBT umbrella.
In a tolerant world, I reckon I'd get an avalanche of replies, but this thread most likely will be strangled at birth.
My first encounter with a transgendered person was as a 20 year old, one night in the West Village. I was waiting for a friend to close up the bar where he tended, and at about 11 pm, this enormous 18 wheeler pulled up on the West Side Highway. The trucker, a big tough guy exited and hurried around to the passenger side of the cab, opened the door, pulled down some steps, and took the hand of this petite lady, as he attentively watched her navigate the steps to the pavement.
Holding her hand he led her to the bar and opened the door. She thanked him and he kissed her extended hand. He had picked her up hitching on I-10 in Arkansas. That was my introduction to Francine.
Francine was a male-to-female transgendered person, and Francine was now only interested in men, and straight men were crazy about Francine. She came to the bar because it was here that she had gotten support and had friends, but now she considered herself as all women, and she was looking for a guy to settle down with.
Point of the story is that Francine was to all intents and purposes a straight woman.

Here are some articles I might find some commonality with:

https://tgmentalhealth.com/2009/12/21/the-differences-between-the-transgender-and-the-gaylesbian-experience/

http://www.religioustolerance.org/transsexu2.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joanne-herman/some-transgender-people-a_b_886692.html


Anyhow, nothing ventured etc.

gizmo81

An important part of LGBT+ history is non-binary presentation. From the Molly Houses in Victorian England to the Drag Balls in America. A crucial part of the the motive for the Stonewall Riots was the New York Penal Code rules around clothing and how a person had to be wearing 3, I believe, pieces of clothing relating to their gender.

Gay men and women throughout history have blurred the lines of gender. T is a spectrum, from transvestites, to transgender, to transexual, to even drag some argue and beyond.

Transgender isn't always about gender reassignment and it is this blurring, this rainbow that is important to our whole community.

There are femme boys and butch women who cannot hide their gender/sexual identities so there is a cross over.

Personally, give me a butch woman or femme boy any day over a 'masc' gay as IMO that is the antithesis of being gay. I know we will disagree on that.

I will say that a problem with the T community is the reluctance to recognise the 'queer' side of us and this is a huge problem for the LGB+ community too. It's called homonormativity. If you think of it as good gay (marriage, white, masc, etc) VS bad queer (promiscuous, POC, femme, etc)

It is a huge discussion which people are not going to agree on, look at the Gay community tearing itself asunder over 'straight-acting' and 'masc'.

I believe the LGB community share too much in common to separate from T. Yes some people won't want to align their politics with that of gay men, or of those in the trans community but from experience of the scene I believe the majority work together.

Annasopra

I don't think anyone has ever claimed sexual orientation and gender identity were the same thing.

We have had a lot of extremely ugly discussion in here over the years on whether this forum should be lgb or lgbt. It is lgbt.
That discussion was deeply disruptive and very personally hurtful to many. If we are to open up that discussion again I can see the same thing happening.

Sorry OP given how personally upsetting it was to many here in the past this forum won't be dragged back into a false debate of LGB versus T.