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Israel/Palastine why such an interest.

  • 30-04-2017 2:38pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭ Mutant z


    I was just wondering why does the Israeli/Palastinian issue grab peoples attention so much and not other conflicts, it seems to be those from the political left, in particular who are the biggest critics of the Israeli state, but who largely remain silent on human rights abuses in muslim states, and seem to focus all their anger onto Israel, which is surrounded by mostly hostile Arab states, is it genuine compassion for the Palastinians, or simply hatred of Israel and zionism, or indeed concealed anti semitism, while there are constant motions brought forward in the UN condemning Israel other more serious offenders are ignored, it seems when it involves Israel there is huge outrage and protests, while Arab states which have a terrible record on womens and gay rights etc, just silence and very few protests why is this.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,586 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    Well, equally those on the political right seem to be particularly vocal in their support for and defence of Israel, and seem much less prone to leap to the defence (or send billions in foreign aid to) other states which are subjected to similar criticisms.

    The fact is that in the Western World both right and left are heavily invested in the Israel/Palestine conflict, much more so than in other similar conflicts. There was a time when this might have been explained by the fact that Israel was a proxy for the West in an otherwise Soviet-influenced region, but that time was decades ago. So what gives?

    I cautiously suggest that the reason is that we feel emotionally closer to the issue, and to some extent more responsible for the problem, than is the case elsewhere. Israel wouldn't exist at all had it not been for antisemitism in Western societies, and it wouldn't exist where it does had it not been for Western colonial policies pursued in the Middle East. The result is that Palestinians have paid, and continue to pay, a huge price to solve problems largely made by us, or by people that we feel some responsibility for.

    That can play out in two ways. Because we feel somewhat responsible for this state of affairs, we feel guilty at the plight of the Palestinians, and therefore we feel we ought to defend them. Or, because we feel somewhat responsible for this state of affairs, we feel a need to justify it as necessary and right, and therefore we support Israel. Which way this impulse plays out may depend on whether your wider political sympathies lean to the left or to the right but, either way, it's basically the same sense of responsiblity manifesting itself in a more than usually passionate concern with the issue.

    There are other factors at work too. Israel aspires to be, and in many respects is, a liberal western democracy, and therefore we are inclined to hold it to the higher standards to which it has committed itself. The occupation of Tibet, say, and oppression/displacement of Tibetans by China does attract opposition, but it doesn't attract the same emotional response because we don't regard China as part of "us" in the same way that we regard Israel.

    One other point, with regard to UN resolutions, etc, is a technical one but not an unimportant one. There are plenty of Arab states which have poor records on human rights, but for the most part this is within their own territories, and all governments are pretty strong on the notion of sovereign independence - the idea that country A does not get to tell country B how to govern itself. What makes the Israeli situation different is that it's in long-term occupation of the West Bank, which is not Israeli territory. This makes what Israel does in the West Bank a matter of concern to the international community in a way that purely domestic issues would not be. Hence, all the UN resolutions, etc, that you mention.

    The only parallel that leaps immediately to mind where an Arab state sent its forces to abuse human rights in the territory of another state is the invasion and occupation of Kuwait by Iraq in 1990. And we know how the international community responded to that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 RDM_83 again


    There is also the historic aspect, is there a more important city as a concept than Jerusalem?Think of the global population that follows the Abrahamic faiths


  • Registered Users Posts: 47,298 ✭✭✭✭ tayto lover


    It's the David v Goliath thing.
    Nobody likes a bully.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 RDM_83 again


    It's the David v Goliath thing.
    Nobody likes a bully.

    Which one is the bully though? Like looking back on things pre 1967 Israel could be considered the David in that analogy.
    You can even see it in terms of the way the Left has viewed the conflicts, initially Israel was apparently viewed pretty positively. On an associated note the fact that the PLO who were more palatable to a left wing point of view are now irrelevant is sort of ignored by many on the left, its now a conflict between a Jewish state and various Islamic forces.
    I am not a fan of Israel though, their international actions alone are enough to condemn them even without getting into the Palestine issues


  • Registered Users Posts: 47,298 ✭✭✭✭ tayto lover


    Which one is the bully though? Like looking back on things pre 1967 Israel could be considered the David in that analogy.
    You can even see it in terms of the way the Left has viewed the conflicts, initially Israel was apparently viewed pretty positively. On an associated note the fact that the PLO who were more palatable to a left wing point of view are now irrelevant is sort of ignored by many on the left, its now a conflict between a Jewish state and various Islamic forces.
    I am not a fan of Israel though, their international actions alone are enough to condemn them even without getting into the Palestine issues
    If you just look back a few years and the ferocious rocket attacks on the Palestinians I think its pretty clear who the bigger bully is.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,238 ✭✭✭ Ardennes1944


    Whos the bully? Really?? Have you seen how land that Palestine had 100years ago compared to what it has now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,586 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    If you just look back a few years and the ferocious rocket attacks on the Palestinians I think its pretty clear who the bigger bully is.
    But why would you only look back "just a few years"? You can be sure the protagonists on both sides do not have such a limited perspective.


  • Registered Users Posts: 47,298 ✭✭✭✭ tayto lover


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    But why would you only look back "just a few years"? You can be sure the protagonists on both sides do not have such a limited perspective.
    I was referring to the last clear case which was all over the News and easy to find.
    Of course there are others.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,697 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    I care little for this conflict if I'm honest. I can see the crimes against humanity in it all, but maybe I'm just fed up listening to it for so long now, and see it as something with no resolution?

    It does seem to be a big deal for a lot of Irish people. As someone who grew up in Derry I would see plenty of support for the Palestinians up here. Probably due to how Catholics were treated by the British and Unionists,and having an affinity with them.

    Personally, I have more important things to worry about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭ Irlandese


    It is hard to access the truth about Zionism and other racist dogmas driving the Israeli agendas that constitute a usually silent but always deadly genocidal attack on the Palestinians.

    Ireland and Irish people generally have always taken a principled stand in support of Palestinians. This has a lot to do with our shared historical status as long suffering peoples, denied equality and basic human rights by invaders who treated us as slaves and sub-humans. Ireland has also suffered directly through attacks on its own soldiers by Israeli sponsored thugs on the Lebanon border with Israel during it's committments to UN Peace-keeping roles there. Israel is an unapologetically racist, apartheid state that engages in continual crimes against humanity and not only against Palestinians. Yes, it has the backing of the greatest Imperialist power of the day, the USA. Yes, it has many Nuclear weapons and a huge military arsenal, thanks to the same USA. But, it's most useful weapons are the sympathies and unwitting collusion of gullible or uninformed people across the world, who are effectively victims of black propoganda and lies propounded by the highly successful Zionist lobbies in America and Europe. Everyone needs to be informed and to form their own views on the actions of tyrants and racist thugs and criminals against humanity, even when they run entire countries and are backed to the hilt by America against condemnation in the UN or at the Hague. We should read up on what is going on, before we are complicit in actions designed to help Israel to cover up it's crimes against Palestinians and others, by , for example, participating in "Holocaust Memorials" without understanding the facts.

    I join very many in applauding jewish intellectuals, like the great american political scientist Norman Gary Finkelstein, whose courageous book, " The Holocaust Industry" exposed for all time the awful truth about the false ideology and lies about this issue that Israel is using to gain immunity from even the mildest condemnation of it's own genocidal holocaust against the palestinian people, from 1948 onwards. His own family suffered terribly during the oppression of jews in Germany and were imprisoned in the camps. His parents were shocked at the use of lies and manipulations about the truth by Zionists, to give cover to Israel in their own holocaust against the Palestinians. The book was suppressed by Zionist interests and Finkelstein was hounded out of academia and everywhere else. But he speaks and writes widely and is a revered and much admired defender of the truth, in a time where such actions cost lives. Copies are often available on amazon. I bought two recently, to give to friends to study and use to inform others.

    I live abroad, but am so very proud that Irish people remember and stand solidly with another oppressed people in their hour of need. We are strong, today, but, in our recent past, we too knew the pain of racism, oppression and death at the hands of a powerful and pitiless thug.



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