'Team Ulster'

Prop Joe

Meath selector and Antrim native Mickey McCullough thinks the Ulster championship is no longer fit for purpose and that a combined 'Team Ulster' might be the best way forward for hurling in the province.

Under the former Championship system of four provincial winners meeting in semi-finals, Antrim twice reached All-Ireland deciders - losing to Tipperary in 1989 and Cork in 1943.

However, the introduction of quarter-finals and qualifiers in 1997 made the Ulster champions' route to Croke Park harder and when Antrim - who compete in the Christy Ring Cup this year - were permitted to join Leinster in 2009 the provincial championship became an afterthought.

"Once they took away the Ulster championship's route to anywhere else, it neutered it," McCullough told the RTÉ GAA podcast. "I don't think it means anything to anybody any more.

"I can still remember halcyon days at Casement Park and the bank being full of people on a sunny day.

"I don't think there's much of an interest in it from the teams even. The Nicky Rackard, Christy Ring and Lory Meagher are the championship competitions those see themselves in.

"Ulster is a problem. There is no interest in hurling at a majority of levels, including the people who are there to run hurling."

"What have you got to lose by trying something new? Because what you're trying at the minute is not working"
McCullough, a former hurling development officer and Ulster schools team coach, thinks the logistical and partisan arguments against a combined team don't stand up, and that it could work even without the province's traditional powerhouse of Antrim.

"Some people say 'it can't work' but I beg to differ," he said.

"We had boys from North Antrim, Belfast, Down, Derry, Tyrone, Armagh, who were 17 years of age and didn't drive but they still trained, so senior hurlers can do it.

"Noel McGrath lives in Dublin and plays for Tippeary. Being an inter-county hurler is about travelling and the committment.

"As for the rivalries, what rivalries? They don't even want to play each other now in the Ulster Championship.

"What have you got to lose by trying something new? Because what you're trying at the minute is not working.

"Antrim would be most vocal about not being interested in a Team Ulster, and maybe rightly so, but why not do it for Down, Armagh and Donegal etc (even) if Antrim don't want to be part of it?"

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I think this could be worth a shot at trying to develop Hurling in the North of our island.

But it would only work if each county disbanded their own county side.

Counties like Monaghan,Cavan & Fermanagh i think would jump on board as there is barely a half dozen clubs in the 3 counties,If Armagh,Donegal & Tyrone threw their lot in it could work.

I dunno would Down or Derry join but if even if they did and each county put a few pound in the pot (which could be matched by HQ)

How competitive would they be?

PTH2009

could be hard to govern as the antrim players would be slighly better in ability than say players in Tyrone, Armagh, Fermanagh etc but could be a solution

Could they have a team Connacht made up of players from the other 4 counties (Galway obv being excluded) ???

feargale

Prop Joe wrote: »

But it would only work if each county disbanded their own county side.

Why so? Why not continue with the current competitions, Christy Ring etc., side by side with what you propose, excluding no Ulster player? County identity is the cornerstone of the GAA and you need to tread very carefully in dealing with it. Maybe in time Antrim could recover their mojo and become serious Liam McCarthy contenders. They could then hive off from Ulster.

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could they have a team Connacht made up of players from the other 4 counties (Galway obv being excluded) ???

North Connacht would struggle to win Nicky Rackard. They could only become a force if joined to Kerry, but that isn't practical.
More realistic would be North Leinster ( Meath, Westmeath, Louth and Longford) and South Leinster (Kildare, Carlow and Wicklow.)

nice_guy80

feargale wrote: »

Why so? Why not continue with the current competitions, Christy Ring etc., excluding no Ulster player? County identity is the cornerstone of the GAA and you need to tread very carefully in dealing with it. Maybe in time Antrim could recover their mojo and become serious Liam McCarthy contenders. They could then hive off from Ulster.




North Connacht would struggle to win Nicky Rackard. They could only become a force if joined to Kerry, but that isn't practical.
More realistic would be North Leinster ( Meath, Westmeath, Louth and Longford) and South Leinster (Kildare, Carlow and Wicklow.)

in the whole of north connacht (outside of Galway) you have about 25 hurling clubs
Meath nearly has that alone

arctictree

feargale wrote: »

Why so? Why not continue with the current competitions, Christy Ring etc., excluding no Ulster player? County identity is the cornerstone of the GAA and you need to tread very carefully in dealing with it. Maybe in time Antrim could recover their mojo and become serious Liam McCarthy contenders. They could then hive off from Ulster.




North Connacht would struggle to win Nicky Rackard. They could only become a force if joined to Kerry, but that isn't practical.
More realistic would be North Leinster ( Meath, Westmeath, Louth and Longford) and South Leinster (Kildare, Carlow and Wicklow.)

I think hurling in Leinster is actually going the right way. Meath, Westmeath, Carlow and possibly kildare are competitive and are growing. I wouldn't see any loyalty to a N. Leinster or S. Leinster team. On the other hand, a Team Connaught and Team Ulster sounds like a good idea?

Prop Joe

Fermanagh,Monaghan and Cavan are basically club teams (No Disrespect) but they are picking out of 3/4 clubs each,If there was a "Team Ulster" and the best were plucked from these teams the remainder would not be cut out for inter county level.

For the "Team Ulster" to work in my opinion county teams would have to step back as without there top players they would be very very understrength.

I think Leinster is actually very strong at the moment bar Louth (5 clubs) & Longford (3 Clubs)

Roscommon (7 clubs)
Sligo (5 clubs)
Mayo (4 clubs)
Leitrim ( 4 clubs)

Could be a really competitive side at CR level but again the county teams could not survive alongside this

nice_guy80

Prop Joe wrote: »

Fermanagh,Monaghan and Cavan are basically club teams (No Disrespect) but they are picking out of 3/4 clubs each,If there was a "Team Ulster" and the best were plucked from these teams the remainder would not be cut out for inter county level.

For the "Team Ulster" to work in my opinion county teams would have to step back as without there top players they would be very very understrength.

I think Leinster is actually very strong at the moment bar Louth (5 clubs) & Longford (3 Clubs)

Roscommon (7 clubs)
Sligo (5 clubs)
Mayo (4 clubs)
Leitrim ( 4 clubs)

Could be a really competitive side at CR level but again the county teams could not survive alongside this

Longford has two

Westmeath hurling is going backwards.
Less underage clubs than 10 years ago, barely a hurling club in Mullingar town
County underage squads regularly being beaten by Meath and Kildare
No schools teams doing well

Frankie Lee

If I were to implement regional Hurling teams I'd put the following together:
Weshtern Warriors
Mayo, Roscommon (Would be strong enough) Weshtern Warriors

Breifne Rovers
Sligo, Leitrim, Cavan, Longford, Fermanagh (would still be very weak)

Ui Neill Red Handers
Tyrone, Derry and Donegal (Would be weak enough and Derry could dominate numbers but hurling could improve quickly enough in the other 2 if the will is there.

Airgialla Argonauts
Down, Armagh, Monaghan, Louth (Down and Armagh would make it strong)

pontoonz

i'd rather see dublin barred with their multi-million dollar backers and have a nice fair champioship between the poor counties

Django99

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Longford has two

Westmeath hurling is going backwards.
Less underage clubs than 10 years ago, barely a hurling club in Mullingar town
County underage squads regularly being beaten by Meath and Kildare
No schools teams doing well

Disappointed to hear that about Westmeath. About 10 years ago they had a few very good underage and school teams. They had a club team win the Feile Divison 2 when it was in kilkenny that were as good as anything in kilkenny at the time.

Bonniedog

pontoonz wrote: »

i'd rather see dublin barred with their multi-million dollar backers and have a nice fair champioship between the poor counties

Do you need a chip for your other shoulder?

Prop Joe

If all of Ulster bar Antrim got together could they become a top 10 team?

aidan24326

Prop Joe wrote: »

If all of Ulster bar Antrim got together could they become a top 10 team?

Not a hope. They would get walloped by any of the established top 10.

And even if you picked a 'Team Ulster' I'm guessing the starting 15 would have a minimum of 10 Antrim players, and possibly more, so all you'd end up with is a slightly improved Antrim (at best). If you take the likes of Cavan, Fermanagh, Armagh and Tyrone, most of their players wouldn't even get on the Antrim panel let alone be any addition to a Team Ulster.

Dyr

If the norn counties don't want to promote hurling so be it. Be better off promoting the sport at club level out in the big ball badlands than any provincial team

Prop Joe

aidan24326 wrote: »

Not a hope. They would get walloped by any of the established top 10.

And even if you picked a 'Team Ulster' I'm guessing the starting 15 would have a minimum of 10 Antrim players, and possibly more, so all you'd end up with is a slightly improved Antrim (at best). If you take the likes of Cavan, Fermanagh, Armagh and Tyrone, most of their players wouldn't even get on the Antrim panel let alone be any addition to a Team Ulster.

I Doubt Antrim,Derry or Down would throw their weight behind a "Team Ulster" as they have a decent playing population and are relatively successful at their level,But if the other 6 counties pooled their resources they might be a decent Christy Ring team??

nice_guy80

If Antrim bothered to get their house in order they would make a Leinster quarter final every year with their adult team. Laois are doing it, with far less hurling clubs

they also are very isolated up there.
if they were serious about raising standards they would be running their own inter county U14, U16 competitions every year and getting counties to come up and play more games in the Glens.
clubs up there need to get more clubs from the south up for tournaments.
anything that gets Antrim teams and clubs playing against outside opposition would raise the standards.
they are in their own little bubble up there.

but they are happier to just moan about things

keeponhurling

pontoonz wrote: »

i'd rather see dublin barred with their multi-million dollar backers and have a nice fair champioship between the poor counties

Because Dublin win Liam McCarthy every single year or something ?

cms88

An idea i've always thought would be good would be something like this.

At the moment the Intermediate championship is underutilized i think.

Based on 2016 for example.

Leinster had 3 teams, normally only 2. Kilkenny, Wexford and Galway played in it. Why not add Carlow, based on not getting out of the SHC qualifier group, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow into the IHC? Also add Dublin into the mix and you have 8 teams.

Add Kerry into Munster, if they dont get out of the qualifier group that is.

In Ulster the two losing SHC semi-finalists lets say Derry and Armagh, plus Antrim second team. Will explain a fourth team for this later.

In Connacht you could have Galway in it instead of Leinster, along with Roscommon and Mayo. Winners from the previous year get a bye into the final.

The likes of Kilkenny, Galway etc be limited to say U23, this gives the ''weaker counties'' games against teams of a good standard while the stronger counties are able to give younger players more experience with more games.

Not sure how feasible an All-Ireland JHC would be. Leinster with the likes of Louth, Longford and maybe another Kilkenny or Dublin team.

Connacht with Sligo and Leitrim, who could be able to move up to IHC.

Ulster with the likes of Cavan, Fermanagh, Monaghan and Donegal, again with the winners moving up a grande.

Munster counties could use it for developing players just out of minor or on the fringes of U21 etc.


It's just an idea, but with a lot of counties championship season over before June it would at least give them more games with a chance of winning some silverware at the same time.

arctictree

Whatever about structures, at the moment there is no progression available for an exceptional player from a weaker county. Why shouldn't the best players from Kildare not be allowed play for Kilkenny, for example, as well as lining out for their own county?

aidan24326

Prop Joe wrote: »

I Doubt Antrim,Derry or Down would throw their weight behind a "Team Ulster" as they have a decent playing population and are relatively successful at their level,But if the other 6 counties pooled their resources they might be a decent Christy Ring team??

The other 6 if pooled together might make a decent Christy Ring Cup team yes, maybe, but a previous poster suggested they might be good enough for the top 10 of the Liam McCarthy Competition which I was shooting down as a non-runner.

arctictree wrote: »

Whatever about structures, at the moment there is no progression available for an exceptional player from a weaker county. Why shouldn't the best players from Kildare not be allowed play for Kilkenny, for example, as well as lining out for their own county?

County boundaries aside would any player from the Kildare panel, even their best player, get on a Kilkenny county panel? I doubt it. All due respect to them but there's a gulf in class and it's way bigger in hurling than in football.

If we're talking about the weaker Ulster teams pooling together and competing as one, right now they might put together a team that could compete at Christy Ring level but that's about it. Even at that level the better teams would be a step up.

nice_guy80

aidan24326 wrote: »

The other 6 if pooled together might make a decent Christy Ring Cup team yes, maybe, but a previous poster suggested they might be good enough for the top 10 of the Liam McCarthy Competition which I was shooting down as a non-runner.




County boundaries aside would any player from the Kildare panel, even their best player, get on a Kilkenny county panel? I doubt it. All due respect to them but there's a gulf in class and it's way bigger in hurling than in football.

If we're talking about the weaker Ulster teams pooling together and competing as one, right now they might put together a team that could compete at Christy Ring level but that's about it. Even at that level the better teams would be a step up.

Naas have some very good underage hurlers
you will see Kildare improving in the next 5+ years

OldMrBrennan83

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aidan24326

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Naas have some very good underage hurlers
you will see Kildare improving in the next 5+ years

Would be great to see it.

klairondavis

aidan24326 wrote: »

County boundaries aside would any player from the Kildare panel, even their best player, get on a Kilkenny county panel? I doubt it. All due respect to them but there's a gulf in class and it's way bigger in hurling than in football.

Conor Kenny from Celbridge was on the Tipperary panel and played a number of league games over the last few years. Gerry Keegan would get on any county panel in the country but unfortunately is abroad this year.

Naas have held their own at underage level in recent years. They've been very successful in the Kilkenny leagues and at All Ireland Feile A level. Their difficulty will be trying to keep all those lads playing hurling because a lot of them are also talented footballers. Naas won the minor and u21 county championship in both hurling and football last year. Two of the best club hurlers in Kildare Fergal Conway and Jonathan Byrne are committed to the footballers this year. Only two Celbridge players are currently featuring for the county team even though they were far and away the best club in Kildare last year. The trouble in a lot of these developing counties is getting the best players to commit.

When Ulster teams had a direct route into the All Ireland QF / SF, they were much stronger. Pre-the qualifiers. Antrim, Derry, Down - all handy sides.

The back door and qualifiers have not helped.

Bring back the old system.

Flukey

There should be a regional system for Hurling. It should consist of 32 teams. Oh, wait, hold on...!

As for provincial teams, we have them already for the Railway Cup. That is as far as it should go. That should remain separate to inter-county. It is up to each county to get their county up in standard and not throwing the towel in and running with an idea like that. It doesn't matter how few clubs some counties have. Even if a county only had one club, then they have enough to field a county team.

PTH2009

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

When Ulster teams had a direct route into the All Ireland QF / SF, they were much stronger. Pre-the qualifiers. Antrim, Derry, Down - all handy sides.

The back door and qualifiers have not helped.

Bring back the old system.[/QUOTE]

the GAA would lose out on $$$$$$ and its not fair for players to be training all year for one game. Times are much different now

Flukey

PTH2009 wrote: »

its not fair for players to be training all year for one game.

Simple solution: Win that game!!! It is not the system. It is up to each county to go out there and ensure they don't have one game. They can't be looking to the structures for that.

OldMrBrennan83

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Flukey

Patww79 wrote: »

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Yes. Teams have to go out to win. Martin Breheny had an article in the Indo yesterday about what the different football teams should be aiming for. He put the counties into different groups: to win the All-Ireland, get to the final, get to a semi-final, get to a quarter-final, win three games, win two games and win one game. So he had Dublin, Kerry and Mayo in the win the All-Ireland group down to Waterford, London and New York in the win one game group.

I would completely disagree with all but three of the counties he mentioned. Waterford should have as an absolute minimum target to walk up the steps of the Hogan Stand and take the Sam Maguire. Apart from Dublin, Kerry and Mayo, should all the other teams having reached his target then go out and try to lose their next game? Waterford should indeed target winning one game. Having won it, will they want to win or lose the next one? Of course they will want to win it. If they do, what will their target be for their third game? Obvious answer. So, based on that, their minimum target, and that of all other counties, should be to win the All-Ireland.

If they don't want to win the All-Ireland, then there is something wrong. OK, they are not all going to win it, and some won't even win one game, but still, their minimum target should be to win the All-Ireland. That counts for Hurling too, naturally.

cms88

Patww79 wrote: »

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Agree with you and Flukey.

This idea of entitlement is everywhere not just in the GAA of sport.

It's much like when the Munster counties went off in a sulk of the SFC. While i didn't agree with the seeding the way it was done at the time, they were more or less looking for a hand out and easy route to the Munster final hoping Kerry and Cork would be drawn earlier on.

Their complaint being they weren't being giving a fair chance!! Pretty saying Kerry and Cork should be punished as suce because they cant be bothered making an effort themselves.

IMO the brains behind this Donal Og at the time was hoping the GAA would run with the idea giving him a nice handy job for himself. Funny how once he got involved with Clare we didn;t hear uch more about it.

The idea that the GAA needs hurling to be strong is like how ''it needs'' Offaly Wexford etc to be strong. There's no real reason given as to why it needs some teams and not others

OldMrBrennan83

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Bonniedog

I see Warwickshire had a big win. Is Liam Watson still with them?

Flukey

Patww79 wrote: »

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I don't believe in a full open draw, but every province should be an open draw. In Connacht they can keep the rotational system as to who goes to London and New York, but those should be the only two fixed pairings. Other than that, all provincial championships should be a full open draw. So we'd get rid of things like the Leinster Hurling champions getting a bye to the semi-final. You'd get some more interesting fixtures in the earlier stages of the championships that way. If you are old enough to remember it, who can ever forget the first round of the 1991 Leinster Championship, with the famous four games between Dublin and Meath? That happened because of an open draw. As to Munster, Cork v Kerry will be a big game whether it is in the Munster final or before that, so the authorities have nothing to lose if it is earlier.

OldMrBrennan83

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PTH2009

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0507/873226-plans-for-new-round-robin-structure-for-hurling/

best way to do it is 1 home game, 1 away game and 2 neutral. Munster and Leinster Finals neutral venues, with QFS, SFS and Final in Croke Park

Munster- Cork, Clare, Limerick, Waterford, Limerick
Leinster- Dublin, Kilkenny, Galway, Wexford and Offaly

Kerry, Meath, Laois, Westmeath, Antrim, Carlow, Down, Wiclow, Kildare and London to go into there own tier 2 competiton

Tier 3 comp- Team Ulster (made up of Derry, Monaghan, Donegal, Cavan, Armagh, Fermanagh and Tyrone players), Mayo, Roscommon, Leitrim, Warwickshire, Longford, Louth, Sligo

not a bad system, guaranteed 4 games, fighting for a top 3 finish

Bonniedog

Given all their other experimentation they should at least do a trial year of a complete open draw.

Not sure how many of you remember the 1984 Centenary Cup, but that was open draw and led to some massive upsets; Dublin footballers losing to Westmeath, Wexford hurlers to Roscommon!, Kerry being beaten by Derry.

Huge crowds too. Really caught the imagination. Should try it for one year anyway although can't see anyone proposing it.

OldMrBrennan83

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Flukey

Bonniedog wrote: »

Given all their other experimentation they should at least do a trial year of a complete open draw.

Not sure how many of you remember the 1984 Centenary Cup, but that was open draw and led to some massive upsets; Dublin footballers losing to Westmeath, Wexford hurlers to Roscommon!, Kerry being beaten by Derry.

Huge crowds too. Really caught the imagination. Should try it for one year anyway although can't see anyone proposing it.

They did it again in 1985, but after that it was abandoned. It was not getting the support. Teams want the championship proper. People seem to forget the other competitions we have. The so-called pre-seasons ones like the O'Byrne Cup, McKenna Cup etc. are all provincial championships, but don't get support like the real thing. People say it is not fair that teams may only get one or two games in the championship. Have they forgotten that just before the championship there is a competition where teams have a guaranteed amount of games, namely the league? Again, they don't come out and support it in the same numbers, and even the counties themselves don't always put the effort in. Those that do tend to do better in the Championship.

The Championship is our knockout competition, now with an inbuilt second chance up to the end of the provincial championships. That is good. It is not perfect, but it works. You get complaints like it not really starting until August. At that stage, just the big teams are left. What is wrong with that? It is what you expect, and it is the same as the competitions in other sports. The FA Cup Final is coming up, with a lot of interest, but there weren't tens of thousands of people at the first few rounds, when all the no-hopers were still there. Try any other knockout competition in any sport, and it is the same. It is when the big teams are left that you get the interest from the public. So our championships are no different than any other knockout competition, so it is not really a valid criticism. Us fans are interested now, when it is starting. The sunshine fans and bandwagoners will soon join us, and that is fair enough. Let's get it on.

Bonniedog

Obviously a second tier competition is not going to have same appeal. My argument is that an open draw should be introduced for the championship, even just as a trial.

BTW, McKenna Cup and O'Byrne Cup get big crowds as it is seen by minor counties as chance to beat a Tyrone or Donegal or Dublin which they probably not have in Summer.

cms88

Flukey wrote: »

They did it again in 1985, but after that it was abandoned. It was not getting the support. Teams want the championship proper. People seem to forget the other competitions we have. The so-called pre-seasons ones like the O'Byrne Cup, McKenna Cup etc. are all provincial championships, but don't get support like the real thing. People say it is not fair that teams may only get one or two games in the championship. Have they forgotten that just before the championship there is a competition where teams have a guaranteed amount of games, namely the league? Again, they don't come out and support it in the same numbers, and even the counties themselves don't always put the effort in. Those that do tend to do better in the Championship.

The Championship is our knockout competition, now with an inbuilt second chance up to the end of the provincial championships. That is good. It is not perfect, but it works. You get complaints like it not really starting until August. At that stage, just the big teams are left. What is wrong with that? It is what you expect, and it is the same as the competitions in other sports. The FA Cup Final is coming up, with a lot of interest, but there weren't tens of thousands of people at the first few rounds, when all the no-hopers were still there. Try any other knockout competition in any sport, and it is the same. It is when the big teams are left that you get the interest from the public. So our championships are no different than any other knockout competition, so it is not really a valid criticism. Us fans are interested now, when it is starting. The sunshine fans and bandwagoners will soon join us, and that is fair enough. Let's get it on.

I can't understand how people or counties for that matter think an open draw or ''Champions League'' format will make any difference.

Do people think because of it Carlow or Longford will be winning the All-Ireland? Or even making the last 8? Kerry, Dublin etc will still be there at the end of it. Granted they might not win as often as they have but it's very unlikely someone will come out of nowhere to win anything.

cms88

Bonniedog wrote: »

Obviously a second tier competition is not going to have same appeal. My argument is that an open draw should be introduced for the championship, even just as a trial.

BTW, McKenna Cup and O'Byrne Cup get big crowds as it is seen by minor counties as chance to beat a Tyrone or Donegal or Dublin which they probably not have in Summer.

This is what i don't understand. Why won't it? In football for example Longford and Carlow players or management have been saying they don't train all year for a B championship etc In the 130 odd years of the GAA between them they've won 2 Leinster championships. It's not as if they've been challenging for honours at any stage of their history's. Same goes for a lot of others.

A few years ago every year the Waterford football manager would go on a rant after they got knocked out of the championship. One year saying the ''weaker'' teams should get home draws for the first round of the qualifiers regardless. Another year he was complaining about having to be in with the top teams and how it doesn't happen in anyother sport, ignoring the fact they had a championship they could play at their own level but they refused to play in it.

Bonniedog

the best teams will still win but it introduces an element of unpredictability. Dublin drawing Kerry or Kilkenny drawing Tipp in first round of open draw would be just as big an attraction as a semi final or even a final. County championships get a lot of their excitement from big teams meeting one another early. Good example was first round in Dublin SFC when Plunketts beat Ballyboden.

Flukey

Counties want a provincial championship. One of the nice things about our championship is that there are 5 pieces of silverware up for grabs. It may not mean a lot to some counties, but to others it is a big thing to win. Look at the excitement of the likes of Monaghan or Laois or Westmeath in recent years. Separating it out won't work. The McKenna Cup and the like show that. In any case, the provincial championships sort of our separate, finally delivering 4 teams into the quarter-finals. With the qualifiers we also have some drawn pairings that are unique. So our championships have a bit of everything that people want.

People will always come up with new systems. This forum has loads of such threads all the time. There is no perfect system that will satisfy everyone. When you do make a change, it is not long before someone complains. The qualifiers were brought in because it was said some teams only got one game, but now they have two. Of course now people complain that they only have two guaranteed games. If they got a third, how long before they would be looking for a fourth? As we said earlier, if they want more games, then win the ones they have. So there is no perfect system. For all its failings, the crowds will still come out in their thousands in the coming months, so it can't be all bad. We have a lot to look forward to.

cms88

Bonniedog wrote: »

the best teams will still win but it introduces an element of unpredictability. Dublin drawing Kerry or Kilkenny drawing Tipp in first round of open draw would be just as big an attraction as a semi final or even a final. County championships get a lot of their excitement from big teams meeting one another early. Good example was first round in Dublin SFC when Plunketts beat Ballyboden.

True. However you'd end up with a lot more mismatches and games people will have little to know interest in. For example if Kerry were to draw Carlow or Dublin Waterford in football. Also if Antrim were to draw Limerick in football or Waterford Leitrim you'd be lucky to get a few hundred people there. Granted these games could happen with the current system, ut would just be more likely with an open draw

Bonniedog

cms88 wrote: »

True. However you'd end up with a lot more mismatches and games people will have little to know interest in. For example if Kerry were to draw Carlow or Dublin Waterford in football. Also if Antrim were to draw Limerick in football or Waterford Leitrim you'd be lucky to get a few hundred people there. Granted these games could happen with the current system, ut would just be more likely with an open draw

Kerry and Carlow in Carlow would be sell out, as would Dubs and Waterford in Dungarvan. Even for say Antrim and Limerick, two very poorly supported teams anyway, if they were in a straight knockout rather than facing Kerry or Tyrone if they win. surely that would generate some interest?

At end of day best team will win, but like FA Cup or any other open draw there is always chance of a randomer like Lincoln getting to final stages. Be worth an experiment at least.

Flukey

Bonniedog wrote: »

but like FA Cup or any other open draw there is always chance of a randomer like Lincoln getting to final stages. Be worth an experiment at least.

Eh, hello, Tipperary in the semi-final last year! You don't have to go much further back to find Wexford and Femanagh and others, doing very well. So it can happen in the current system. It can happen in any system, but only if those teams get their acts together. You could have Carlow v Kerry or Waterford v Dublin, but unless Carlow and Waterford get their games together, then they will still be mismatches. If they beat Wexford, we could have Carlow v Dublin in a few weeks. Hopefully Carlow have been working hard. Waterford could end up meeting Kerry too. In theory, under our current system, any two counties could meet in the championship. If they both get a good run, it could even be a Carlow v Waterford final this year.

cms88

Bonniedog wrote: »

Kerry and Carlow in Carlow would be sell out, as would Dubs and Waterford in Dungarvan. Even for say Antrim and Limerick, two very poorly supported teams anyway, if they were in a straight knockout rather than facing Kerry or Tyrone if they win. surely that would generate some interest?

At end of day best team will win, but like FA Cup or any other open draw there is always chance of a randomer like Lincoln getting to final stages. Be worth an experiment at least.

A Kerry Carlow game would be a sell out if it was in Carlow yes but in Killarney no. But the other is Kerry would easily be 30 plus points better same with Dublin and Waterford.

The current system has seen Fermanagh been in 3 quarter finals and a semi. Wexford and Tipp have been in semi finals. The likes of Westmeath, Sligo and Laois have been in the quarterfinals multiple times. Limericjk and Clare have also been to the quarterfinal stage, all under what's suppose to be a bad system. That's without including teams like Wicklow who've had good runs in the qualifiers

NewbridgeIR

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

When Ulster teams had a direct route into the All Ireland QF / SF, they were much stronger. Pre-the qualifiers. Antrim, Derry, Down - all handy sides.

The back door and qualifiers have not helped.

Bring back the old system.

PTH2009 wrote: »

the GAA would lose out on $$$$$$ and its not fair for players to be training all year for one game. Times are much different now

The league would still exist so there's more than one game.

The old system means that when Kilkenny are beaten they stay dead for the year. No second chances. There's more excitement in an all-or-nothing clash.

Players' inter-county careers would last longer. When I was growing up, plenty lads played for their county well into their 30s. Martin Quigley scored 2-1 against Kilkenny in the 1988 Leinster semi-final at nearly 38 years of age.

Galway were much stronger when they got straight through to an All Ireland Semi Final (or a Quarter Final against the Senior B champions). All Ireland champions in 1980, 1987, 1988. Finalists in 1975, 1979, 1980, 1985, 1986....