House Repossessed for arrears of €1500?

te_tunts

Can a mortgage provider order a house repossession for arrears of €1500?

We have been in a MARP process with a vulture fund who bought our mortgage from the original provider who left the market a few years ago. As part of the MARP process we have been paying nearly all of the mortgage amount each month.

However the current MARP agreement expired in December and we didn't re-apply for the process to continue but still made the monthly payments. Our outstanding arrears are €1590 and this week we got a letter from them saying "as we have not complied with the MARP process" the are now looking for the full amount of the mortgage within 10 days. If they don't receive that amount they will then seek an order to have the house repossessed"

We have since sent over a new completed MARP application form plus I have suggested I clear the arrears over the next few months by paying an additional €200 every month however they are not interested in this.

Given that we have been paying nearly the full mortgage each month and are only in €1500 arrears would a court really side with them in the event they want to have the house seized?

mickmac76

They are perfectly entitled to ask the court to grant them repossession but I don't think they have a chance in hell of the court granting them such an order. Your arrears are tiny in comparison to the size of a standard mortgage and you are making repayments every month. The court likes to see people who make an effort with their repayments and who engages with the mortgage company. Most likely the letter you received is a standard one sent to everyone who is in arrears. The company can over time keep sending out these letters and if you ignore them they may convince a judge that you aren't making any effort. As long as you respond to them and keep a copy of all letters you send and receive you should be okay.

You could ask one of the moderators to move this question to the accommodation and property forum where I think you will get more answers and opinions.

te_tunts

Cheers Mick.. i was thinking the same myself.

Mods, is possible could you move this to the property forum?

Toots

Moved to Accommodation & Property

Posters, please be aware that the Accommodation & Property Forum Charter now applies.

myshirt

Mick, I think you might be shocked to find you are not correct. A judge may grant the order through gritted teeth, but it can be granted.

Op, where is the property?

I worked with some funds as clients in the past, and yes you will see more and more moving to get the properties, insisting on strict legal compliance. They never wanted the cashflow from the mortgage, it is much more profitable to get the property if it is in the right area.

Free-2-Flow

I've been to court 3 times for arrears of 49k.

The Registrar does not take sides, before a order of repossession can be granted the banks solicitors must display and total lack of willing on your behalf, which they won't be able to.

I went without paying my mortgage for 12 months due to financial difficulties and they ordered a repossession. The bank finally came to an agreement with me on her orders.

The Registrar really rips into the banks and solicitors and I can nearly guarantee when she hears your story and the amount of arrears she will tear them a new one.

bleary

Not a hope they would be granted a repossession order. I'm assuming you're living in the house?
There's a thread at the moment on askaboutmoney very similar. Lots of letters being issued to try to shake people up I think. Do keep paying, document all contact, start to clear the arrears and look forward to the registrar slaughtering them if they go to court. You have about three months before they get a date so if you can make a start on the arrears do.

te_tunts

It is on the commuter belt. The value of the house is nowhere what we paid for it but it is worth more than the vulture fund paid for it.

I will have the arrears paid off over the next few months so if it ever did go to court it would be as up to date and fully cooperating with the lender and no arrears.

I have a young family so surely no judge would put a family out given the above.

Free-2-Flow

te_tunts wrote:

I will have the arrears paid off over the next few months so if it ever did go to court it would be as up to date and fully cooperating with the lender and no arrears.

On this basis you have absolutely nothing to worry about

te_tunts

Also to confim it is our only residence.

Free-2-Flow

te_tunts wrote:

Also to confim it is our only residence.

Family home, always use those words, it's not a residence, its a family home.

te_tunts

Thanks to all for the replies.... Its a stress I don't need at the moment. Just when you think you have the mortgage under control they could at us with this.

Free-2-Flow

te_tunts wrote:

Thanks to all for the replies.... Its a stress I don't need at the moment. Just when you think you have the mortgage under control they could at us with this.

You haven't received an Solicitors letter so I wouldn't stress about it. Even if you do, for that amount of arrears I still wouldn't stress.

Best of luck.

And Relax.

aristotle25

Just to reiterate what has been said, if you continue to engage with the bank and keep paying what you can there is no chance of a judge giving a reposition order. And arrears of €1500? Zero chance.

I have read a lot of forums and listed to a lot of people who attend these court cases and homes are never repossessed in cases like yours. You really need to be not paying for years, not engaging with the bank and not trying to resolve the problem before a judge will order a repossession.

davo10

Op, do not rely on views posted in a discussion forum in a situation like this. Each lending institution/vulture fund has a different modus operandi for dealing with mortgage arrears. Right now you are in breach of your mortgage agreement and they may well start the repossession process rolling sooner rather than later depending on their approach to recovering their assets.

You need legal advice, be it from a free service or a solicitor. Don't bury your head in the sand and hope to dictate how and when you repay the outstanding amount. The courts are full of applications by these funds to repossess homes, most of them are "family homes". Borrow the money if you can from family member and pay off asap.

Anyone who owes €49k on their mortgage and tells you to "relax" is living in a parallel universe.

aristotle25

Some good real data here:

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/a-year-in-the-cork-repossession-courts.196856/

As they state, nearly no orders for repossession in over 850 cases where the person was paying anything.

The op is engaging, has small arrears. The Op can sleep easy and deal with the arrears with the bank.

davo10

Apart from the guy €49k in arrears, who has been to court 3 times, telling the op to "relax".

I am not saying that the ops house will be repossessed but Vulture funds are more aggressive than banks and are far less sensitive to public opinion. In November of 2016, there were 2600 applications for repossession in the courses, 650 per week.

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.thejournal.ie/repossessions-ireland-3-2617807-Feb2016/?amp=1

aristotle25

davo10 wrote: »

Apart from the guy €49k in arrears, who has been to court 3 times, telling the op to "relax".

Completely irrelevant that the person has 49k arrears, it's nothing to do with the OP. In fact it shows that even with 49k arrears the bank came to an agreement afterwards.

If you carefully read what that person said they didn't say bury your head in the sand and ignore it. They just give their story.

I would advise to not let the arrears go to that level though!

listermint

davo10 wrote: »

Apart from the guy €49k in arrears, who has been to court 3 times, telling the op to "relax".

I am not saying that the ops house will be repossessed but Vulture funds are more aggressive than banks and are far less sensitive to public opinion. In November of 2016, there were 2600 applications for repossession in the courses, 650 per week.

So you are saying you went a tad overboard saying that all that advise was basically crap because of one story of a guy who had engaged with the banks but hand paid arrears for some time due to circumstances and still remained in his home.
So basically his advice of engaging with the bank is the same as yours.


Is that it....

davo10

listermint wrote: »

So you are saying you went a tad overboard saying that all that advise was basically crap because of one story of a guy who had engaged with the banks but hand paid arrears for some time due to circumstances and still remained in his home.
So basically his advice of engaging with the bank is the same as yours.


Is that it....

My advice is not to take solace from a guy who tells you to relax, my advice is to pay off the outstanding amount as soon as you can by borrowing money if you can and my advice is that when the company who owns your mortgage sends you a letter about arrears, don't ignore it. Is that simple enough?

pilly

davo10 wrote:

I am not saying that the ops house will be repossessed but Vulture funds are more aggressive than banks and are far less sensitive to public opinion. In November of 2016, there were 2600 applications for repossession in the courses, 650 per week.

Applications for repossession mean nothing unless they're granted in court.

I think it's you that's steering the OP wrong here and scaremongering.

Relax may be the wrong word for it but OP certainly shouldn't be laying awake at night thinking he's going to lose his home.

aristotle25

davo10 wrote: »

Apart from the guy €49k in arrears, who has been to court 3 times, telling the op to "relax".

I am not saying that the ops house will be repossessed but Vulture funds are more aggressive than banks and are far less sensitive to public opinion. In November of 2016, there were 2600 applications for repossession in the courses, 650 per week.

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.thejournal.ie/repossessions-ireland-3-2617807-Feb2016/%3Famp%3D1

Applications are only that, an application. You need to look at the orders made by the courts.

About 20 orders a week granted. Within that you then need to see if they were investment properties, family homes abandoned etc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/fall-in-number-of-court-applications-to-repossess-homes-1.3043963?mode=amp

davo10

aristotle25 wrote: »

Applications are only that, an application. You need to look at the orders made by the courts.

About 20 orders a week granted. Within that you then need to see if they were investment properties, family homes abandoned etc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/fall-in-number-of-court-applications-to-repossess-homes-1.3043963?mode=amp

Would you like to be the subject of one of those applications even if it isn't granted? The stress that must cause must be indescribable.

The ops case is a small amount, but it's obviously enough to trigger a threatening letter from a vulture fund. They are parasites, they want the asset, they will make more by selling it and it's no secret that they are more aggressive than banks. For such a small amount, it is better to make every effort to pay it rather than risk escalation.

It's a fair assumption that as the economy improves, applications will fall, but that is no consolation to those in arrears.

hungry hypno toad

Good luck, OP.

Samuel T. Cogley

OP keep on top of the paperwork and processes from here on in. They're called vulture funds for a reason, don't give them an in.

Free-2-Flow

davo10 wrote:

Anyone who owes €49k on their mortgage and tells you to "relax" is living in a parallel universe.

Is that right? Well I've actually lived it and sorted it out myself without legal advice, Where did your knowledge come from? Reading forums?

athtrasna

Please take your personal disagreements to pm.

Mod

te_tunts

Thanks all for the replies... I have to wait and see what thet come back with re the application to reenter the MARP process

meeeeh

Op, I would try to get some legal advice regarding this. I very much doubt it will go to the court but you will get much more reliable advice or reassurance from someone who has a bit more information. I don't know what free services are available but surely someone like Mabs could provide you with more information where to get help. This is too significant threat to rely on advice of strangers on internet.

aloooof

meeeeh wrote: »

Op, I would try to get some legal advice regarding this. I very much doubt it will go to the court but you will get much more reliable advice or reassurance from someone who has a bit more information. I don't know what free services are available but surely someone like Mabs could provide you with more information where to get help. This is too significant threat to rely on advice of strangers on internet.

I have no experience on an issue like this, but I agree with above. Far better to err on the side of caution, imo.

te_tunts

meeeeh wrote: »

Op, I would try to get some legal advice regarding this. I very much doubt it will go to the court but you will get much more reliable advice or reassurance from someone who has a bit more information. I don't know what free services are available but surely someone like Mabs could provide you with more information where to get help. This is too significant threat to rely on advice of strangers on internet.

Yeah I have done, well I have an appointment this week with a legal adviser so I'll see how it goes and update here.

te_tunts

Thanks for all the replies.

Just a quick follow up. I got some professional advice. They were absolutely gobsmacked by the letters we received from the vulture fund given that it was such small arrears however they said it seems to be a new strategy that these type of companies are taking. They will bring you to court to try and get the house repossessed - probably be laughed out of court but its worth a try from their point of view.

Anyway, I have cleared the arrears and have started paying the full mortgage payment each month. The are happy(ish) with that and we are no longer in the MARP process and are deemed as a "Performing Account"

It seems the letters were a scare tactic, which I suppose worked. What was really interesting was the adviser I spoke to said that this is not what these type of funds want. They are not in it for the long haul so we should expect our mortgage to change hands again in the future once they have repossessed and sold as many houses as possible from people who just cannot afford them.

When they are left with only performing mortgages left on the book they will sell them on again.

Free-2-Flow

I hope it's a weight off your shoulders now

Now you can "Relax" dare I say