RTE The Year of the French TV

Chuchote

Was The Year of the French ever brought out on DVD? It was made in 1982, I think.

Del.Monte

Chuchote wrote: »

Was The Year of the French ever brought out on DVD? It was made in 1982, I think.

No - and unlikely to be out on DVD anytime soon - the usual copyright problems excuse from RTE.

Chuchote

Copyright? On what basis? Is it not the normal practice that you bring out a DVD and pay the writer, director, actors and crew residuals from the sales?

Del.Monte

Chuchote wrote: »

Copyright? On what basis? Is it not the normal practice that you bring out a DVD and pay the writer, director, actors and crew residuals from the sales?

I don't work in RTE, I'm just telling you what I was told about this series and numerous other ones whenever I've contacted them. It's no wonder that RTE is in the financial horrors.

Here's the Archive part of the RTE site - knock yourself out.

http://www.rte.ie/archives/

Chuchote

Del.Monte wrote: »

I don't work in RTE, I'm just telling you what I was told about this series and numerous other ones whenever I've contacted them. It's no wonder that RTE is in the financial horrors.

Here's the Archive part of the RTE site - knock yourself out.

http://www.rte.ie/archives/

Search function doesn't seem to work on it.

riffmongous

I've seen it oft repeated here on boards that RTE actually don't have copies of a lot of their old programs as they overwrote them, don't know if there is any truth to it though

Chuchote

riffmongous wrote: »

I've seen it oft repeated here on boards that RTE actually don't have copies of a lot of their old programs as they overwrote them, don't know if there is any truth to it though

:eek:

Del.Monte

RTE did indeed overwrite loads of stuff years ago, but series such as "The Year of the French" are still held by them.

Peregrinus

Chuchote wrote: »

Copyright? On what basis? Is it not the normal practice that you bring out a DVD and pay the writer, director, actors and crew residuals from the sales?

It is now. It wasn't in 1982, which means that a good deal of the licensing and IP agreements drafted at the time didn't deal with rights as regards DVD releases.

This isn't so much of a problem for organisations like the BBC, which largely fund and produce their own stuff, and own the rights absolutely, so they can e.g. decide to release "Yes Minister" (1980) on DVD without needing anyone's permission. But for smaller broadcasters like RTE a lot of the more significant programmes are co-productions, with others bringing in finance in return for e.g. distribution rights in foreign markets. Year of the French was co-produced with Channel 4 and FR3 Lyon (a French state-owned broadcaster). The soundtrack was produced by The Chieftains and I'm not sure who holds the rights to that. There's likely no existing agreement between all these parties (and possibly there could be other necessary parties) which would entitle RTE to issue the series on DVD, and negotiating one would probably consume more time and resources than could be justified by the likely profits from the issue.

Chuchote

And was it any good? I don't know if I ever saw it at the time, can't remember.

Donal55

Chuchote wrote: »

And was it any good? I don't know if I ever saw it at the time, can't remember.

I was in it along with many other members of the FCA who were based in Griffith Barracks, when it was a barracks!

Del.Monte

Peregrinus wrote: »

It is now. It wasn't in 1982, which means that a good deal of the licensing and IP agreements drafted at the time didn't deal with rights as regards DVD releases.

This isn't so much of a problem for organisations like the BBC, which largely fund and produce their own stuff, and own the rights absolutely, so they can e.g. decide to release "Yes Minister" (1980) on DVD without needing anyone's permission. But for smaller broadcasters like RTE a lot of the more significant programmes are co-productions, with others bringing in finance in return for e.g. distribution rights in foreign markets. Year of the French was co-produced with Channel 4 and FR3 Lyon (a French state-owned broadcaster). The soundtrack was produced by The Chieftains and I'm not sure who holds the rights to that. There's likely no existing agreement between all these parties (and possibly there could be other necessary parties) which would entitle RTE to issue the series on DVD, and negotiating one would probably consume more time and resources than could be justified by the likely profits from the issue.

No personal insult intended but that is a real dead hand hand, public service mindset response. You can be damn sure that a private company wouldn't just sit on a pile of TV series and let them rot in the basement.

Peregrinus

A private company would take a profit-driven decision about whether the cost of securing the rights to issue a DVD release would be justified by the likely revenue from the the release.

Frequently, the hard-nosed conclusion will be "no". There's a whole bunch of audiobooks that have been re-recorded for release online because when previous recordings (often high-quality recordings by well-known actors) were made, nobody thought to secure rights for online distribution. This is the result of decisions made by private companies.

Basically, releasing The Year of the French in DVD or online format without securing the appropriate IP rights, is piracy. You can see that broadcasters, public or private, have an interest in not engaging in or promoting piracy.

if the market for the release is big enough, then the incentive is there for all the relevant rights holders to negotiate an agreement for the release - they'll all be paid for their time and trouble. Strumpet City (1980) has had a DVD release, for example, as has The Irish R.M. (1983). But a 35-year old historical drama with modest appeal within Ireland and none at all outside, and which was commercially unsuccessful even on first release? Nah - not gonna happen.

Chuchote

Peregrinus wrote: »

But a 35-year old historical drama with modest appeal within Ireland and none at all outside, and which was commercially unsuccessful even on first release? Nah - not gonna happen.

Depends on the quality.

Peregrinus

Well, it wasn't critically well-received or commercially a great success when it was first made and broadcast. It was regarded as a bit of disappointment by comparison with Strumpet City, to be honest.

tabbey

Peregrinus wrote: »

It was regarded as a bit of disappointment by comparison with Strumpet City, to be honest.

Everything would be a disappointment by comparison with Strumpet City, well almost everything.

maudgonner

Del.Monte wrote: »

No personal insult intended but that is a real dead hand hand, public service mindset response. You can be damn sure that a private company wouldn't just sit on a pile of TV series and let them rot in the basement.

Actually you're wrong on that count. There are plenty of independent production companies who don't opt to produce DVDs of their series for the very reasons outlined by Peregrinus above - the fairly meagre returns simply don't justify the effort and expense needed to clear the rights.

It's a time consuming process even for productions that are quite recent, I can only imagine the nightmare it would be for older ones.

Del.Monte

maudgonner wrote: »

Actually you're wrong on that count. There are plenty of independent production companies who don't opt to produce DVDs of their series for the very reasons outlined by Peregrinus above - the fairly meagre returns simply don't justify the effort and expense needed to clear the rights.

It's a time consuming process even for productions that are quite recent, I can only imagine the nightmare it would be for older ones.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. The cost of DVD production is miniscule and the profit margins enormous. In the case of RTE it's down to inertia common to all organs of this State and I don't know which private companies are sitting on piles of films as in my experience anything that can be released on DVD is being.

Peregrinus

Del.Monte wrote: »

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. The cost of DVD production is miniscule and the profit margins enormous . . . .

You're ignoring what everybody is saying. The barrier to producing the DVDs is not the cost of production; it's the cost of acquiring the right to produce. This is expensive (if it wasn't, there'd be no economic space for video piracy) and it's a fixed cost, which means that you're not justified in incurring it unless you can be sure of enough sales to cover it.

evolving_doors

Forty coats was destroyed too apparently
Great soundtrack to yotf though... still remember the theme tune
Doooo dooo do doooooo
Do do do dooooo
Do do do dooooooo

Del.Monte

Peregrinus wrote: »

You're ignoring what everybody is saying. The barrier to producing the DVDs is not the cost of production; it's the cost of acquiring the right to produce. This is expensive (if it wasn't, there'd be no economic space for video piracy) and it's a fixed cost, which means that you're not justified in incurring it unless you can be sure of enough sales to cover it.

I'm not ignoring what some have said about acquiring the rights etc. but I refuse to see it as a stumbling block. In the case of RTE it is just the dead hand of the State - why do anything when it's easier to just shuffle along to retirement and your clock.

Heroditas

Didn't it take RTE quite a few years to tie up the legal issues such as copyright, royalties etc before they could rebroadcast Strumpet City back in 2003/2004 as well as releasing it on DVD?
Still an amazing drama though

Peregrinus

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm not ignoring what some have said about acquiring the rights etc. but I refuse to see it as a stumbling block.

Triumph of the Will?

Your refusal to see it as a stumbling block doesn't mean that it's not a stumbling block.

George Flaxman

It is a great shame if this programme will never be shown again (DVD or otherwise). I saw it in the UK in the early 80's thinking it was about a French Invasion in the Napoleonic Wars. I thought there'd be lots of French soldiers in uniform, but there wasn't so much of that. My recollection was that it was on the BBC but I could have been mistaken. My vivid memory was of the Chieftain's Theme music and I had the record. I don't think it was ever shown again over here, but I disagree that there would be no interest in it being rescreened in the UK. I was perhaps too young to fully appreciate it then.

nuac

imho YOTF was a good film, but then I am in Mayo.

I recall false facades on many buildings in Killala

pedroeibar1

There are widespread rumours that they will exit DVD sales.

Media comment on RTE’s last Annual Report:-

Falling sales of DVDs and CDs by RTɒs commercial unit last year contributed to a 20 per cent drop in revenues to €20 million.
The sale of DVDs such as the record-breaking Love/Hate series has always been productive for RTÉ Commercial Enterprises DAC.
After the closure of HMV’s stores in Ireland, however, the company lost an important outlet. A report by its directors also indicated that consumers had moved away from buying CDs and DVDs.
“We are reviewing our presence in the market with business activity limited to managing existing and exploring licensing deals,” the report said.

Del.Monte

Good old RTE, about as innovative as CIE. There's still a massive market for DVDs even if they are in decline and this is just another example of State sponsored lethargy.

They aren't going to find out if there's a market for "The Year of the French" if they never release it.

Meantime at another branch of the State, I wonder how the corrections are going on the 1901 and 1911 censuses. :rolleyes:

Peregrinus

Honestly, Del, this knee-jerk "never mind the evidence, blame the state" reaction isn't going to get you very far.

Worldwide DVD sales are in steep decline, and have been for some years. The rise of streaming and the collapse of the DVD rental business mean that far fewer titles are available, or becoming available, on DVD than used to be the case. This is true for product from both commercial and state-owned producers. The few video rental shops that remain have increasing difficulty getting new material on DVD since the studios only release the most popular and marketable titles in this format.

If potential demand for Year of the French on DVD didn't justify the time and expense of sorting out the licensing issues 10 years ago, it's certainly not going to do so in 2017.

The best prospects of YotF becoming available are probably if (a) its rebroadcast, leading to (b) a revival in interest large enough to justify the expense of obtaining a license to make it available on a streaming service. This costs less than producing it on DVD (the licensing costs are the same, but you don't need to produce or distribute produce any physical DVDs) but it's still a significant cost, and I wouldn't be optimistic. Your refusal to see the licensing issues as a stumbling block isnt' going to contribute to a solution of this problem, though it may serve its purpose of bolstering your anti-statist faith.