My landlord is going Airbnb so I'm out.

jamesthepeach

I am currently both a landlord and a tenant. These new rent rules have e really screwed me up from both ends.

Friday i got notice that my landlord wont be continuing my part 4 and i have to leave.

I rang him to see if there was a problem and he said not with me. Here is his story.

I moved in almost 4 years ago. He hasn't put the rent up since.

He wanted to put it up, still below market rate but above the amount allowed under the new rules.

He can't work with that so he is ending my part 4 and going with short term let's.

I offered him close to market rate, but he said thanks for the offer but if he took it and in a few years i fell out with him then he would end up paying big time for doing that if i ever went to the RTB. I see his point.

So now i find myself in the position of having notice to move out.

I am going to have to give my tenant notice too now and move back into my own place, which while not convenient is my best option for a place to live. Their part 4 is up too by coincidence. And they are good tenants and i haven't out the rent up in years too. They will be in for a shock now looking for somewhere at current rates.

I'll do up the notice tomorrow, but this whole thing is a pain for all involved. Not one was unhappy with the situation before and now all are put out.

Now i know i could be a lot worse off but it just shows what the new rules can do to people.

Bubbaclaus

He can't end the tenancy for that reason. Even at the end of Part 4. Rules changed recently, check your dates to see if the rule changes apply for you:

https://www.rtb.ie/search-results/news/article/2017/01/19/further-changes-to-policy-and-the-law

GGTrek

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

He can't end the tenancy for that reason. Even at the end of Part 4. Rules changed recently, check your dates to see if the rule changes apply for you:

https://www.rtb.ie/search-results/news/article/2017/01/19/further-changes-to-policy-and-the-law

Yes he can at the end of part 4. It is called section 34(b) he just needs to state as a reason : "I am not willing to grant you a new part 4 tenancy " that's it! I am performing a major cleanup of long term tenants I have got at the moment using this rule and already tested this type of notice once at RTB adjudication: in my opinion the best way to evict a problem tenant without having to succumb to the often paternalistic adjudicators preconceived ideas.

testaccount123

You need to go and read the rules around how the rental market works.

Carlos Orange

testaccount123 wrote: »

You need to go and read the rules around how the rental market works.

Things seem to be in a constant state of flux but it looks like you can't terminate a further part 4 lease but you can stop it coming into existence.
citizensinformation seems relatively current since it references changes this year.

"If your landlord wishes to stop a further Part 4 tenancy coming into existence, they may serve a notice during the original Part 4 tenancy, with the notice period expiring on or after the end of the tenancy. A notice served in this way should provide a reason for termination. The reason does not need to be one of the valid grounds for terminating a Part 4 tenancy."

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

"A landlord is not required to rely upon a section 34 ground to terminate a tenancy in these circumstances however a reason for termination must be provided."

https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/notice-of-terminations-landlord-pdf/sample-notice---terminating-before-a-further-part-4-commences-16-01-2017.pdf?sfvrsn=2

jamesthepeach

My landlord sent me the notice that the part 4 was ended with the reason being that he needs to assess the long term future of the property and wants the property empty while doing so.
I fully understand why he is doing it and have no problem with it.

The rest he filled me in with over the phone.

I will be moving my tenants on using the need it for my own use rule. I hope they understand equally.

Actually thinking about it it might be better to end the part 4 with a different reason as i may only be living in it for a few months and if i don't stay living in it, the reason for ending it might come back to haunt me.

If i do move out I'll probably do airbnb in the future with it anyway, so better off not saying.g I'm asking for them to leave for my own use reason. I'll have to think about this one.

Being a landlord is like a minefield these days. It's so not worth it.

testaccount123

jamesthepeach wrote: »

My landlord sent me the notice that the part 4 was ended with the reason being that he needs to assess the long term future of the property and wants the property empty while doing so.
I fully understand why he is doing it and have no problem with it.

Thats not a valid reason to end the tenancy.

Bubbaclaus

GGTrek wrote: »

Yes he can at the end of part 4. It is called section 34(b) he just needs to state as a reason : "I am not willing to grant you a new part 4 tenancy " that's it! I am performing a major cleanup of long term tenants I have got at the moment using this rule and already tested this type of notice once at RTB adjudication: in my opinion the best way to evict a problem tenant without having to succumb to the often paternalistic adjudicators preconceived ideas.

Even since this January's Part 4 change? Doesn't sound right to me.

Under the old rules you could certainly do that.

Giblet

Wasn't it changed to 6 years?

jamesthepeach

testaccount123 wrote: »

Thats not a valid reason to end the tenancy.

It's a pre existing part 4. He can give any reason he likes to not go into another one and end the tenancy after 4 years.
He could even say it's because his cat told him not to renew and it is valid.

testaccount123

Surely you are far better of in your own place either way? it obviously convienient enough for you to live there and financially surely a much better option.

testaccount123 wrote: »

Thats not a valid reason to end the tenancy.

It's perfectly valid to prevent a new part 4 starting which is what's happening.

jamesthepeach

Alvin Some Fencer wrote: »

Surely you are far better of in your own place either way? it obviously convienient enough for you to live there and financially surely a much better option.



It's perfectly valid to prevent a new part 4 starting which is what's happening.

It's not that convenient, but it will do for now.

GGTrek

jamesthepeach wrote: »

My landlord sent me the notice that the part 4 was ended with the reason being that he needs to assess the long term future of the property and wants the property empty while doing so.
I fully understand why he is doing it and have no problem with it.

The rest he filled me in with over the phone.

I will be moving my tenants on using the need it for my own use rule. I hope they understand equally.

Actually thinking about it it might be better to end the part 4 with a different reason as i may only be living in it for a few months and if i don't stay living in it, the reason for ending it might come back to haunt me.

If i do move out I'll probably do airbnb in the future with it anyway, so better off not saying.g I'm asking for them to leave for my own use reason. I'll have to think about this one.

Being a landlord is like a minefield these days. It's so not worth it.

Send two notices of termination: one for part 4 ending:
https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/notice-of-terminations-landlord-pdf/sample-notice---terminating-before-a-further-part-4-commences-16-01-2017.pdf?sfvrsn=2

And one for own use. The one for own use will be subject to paternalistic tendencies of RTB adjudicators should your tenant be a smart ass and challenge it and you motives will be deeply challenged. For the part 4 notice the adjudicator will probably plead on behalf of the tenant to extend the termination date (they know they have no chance if notice is correct). Negotiate date and sign an agreement is always the best course of action in such case.

To other posters here that came out with wrong advice: I went through 4 rtb adjudications already, how many have you gone through? Have you ever read the law and case law in detail? Have you have ever even tried to read what section 34 (b) says before answering here?

As I said over and over again: I am not running a popularity contest in this forum, but I prefer strongly that correct information is provided. In this thread I read so much wrong legal advice to make me sick!

Even the reason stated in the termination notice given to the OP might be valid unless case law says otherwise! And there is no case law on section 34 (b ) except for the reason stated in my original post in this thread. The OP is clever and taking the reasonable/less risky course of action.

Again the wrong advice comes from people with no stake in the game: they risk nothing so they shout out anything they believe in their mindset to be right.

jamesthepeach

<deleted quote snipped>

Paulw

GGTrek wrote: »

In this thread I read so much wrong legal advice to make me sick!

People are not permitted to give legal advice. But, people are entitled to post opinion, even when such opinion is incorrect. And, it is fully appreciated when people correct such opinion, which you have done.

If posters want legal advice - they should go consult a solicitor, not post on the internet.

jamesthepeach

Well it's funny how things work out.
I got my notice of my part 4 ending and I'm ok with it. My landlord has been stung by the rent control. So have I.

So I gave notice to end my own tenants part 4 after it expires and I got word from him that I am not allowed to do that and that he will fight me tooth and nail, RTB, reporting me, solicitors etc.

This guy I would have considered a casual friend before. Never had a problem with him nor he with me. He has had the apartment always at at below market rate for nearly 4 years. And at the moment it is 30% below market rate. I never intended to raise his rent while he was there.
And now that my circumstances have changed and I need it myself he is turning into a tenant from hell.

I need to think about my next steps now but one thing is certain. I will never give discounts on the rent again. Actually I was already thinking I wouldn't be doing conventional letting again anyway, and this is now making up my mind totally.

I was always good to him and then when I in need myself his true colours emerge.
You would think he owned the apartment and not me. And I suppose that's how the RTB think too.

If I could even out the rent up to market rate he could stay and I could rent somewhere else instead, but I can't. For that matter even if my current landlord cut out my rent up toarket rent I could stay but he can't, says he can never be sure even if I paid him without telling anyone that I wouldn't come back in a few years to bite him. I see what he means now.

Watch this space. More to come I'm sure.

secondrowgal

Hi OP

I'm not excusing your tenant's behaviour but I wonder maybe if he is in reactionary panic mode? Did you just serve him notice very recently and now he's kicking back? He had a grand place to live, a good landlord, reasonable rent, and now he (as he sees it) he's being evicted and has to go looking, along with a million others in a tight and expensive market. I am just playing devil's advocate here! In his eyes, he has probably heard that the PTRB will be on his side and he will get to stay, etc., etc., etc.

I wonder if it's any use looking to have a sit down with him about it?

Best of luck.. It's a nasty situation for you both...

jamesthepeach

secondrowgal wrote: »

Hi OP

I'm not excusing your tenant's behaviour but I wonder maybe if he is in reactionary panic mode? Did you just serve him notice very recently and now he's kicking back? He had a grand place to live, a good landlord, reasonable rent, and now he (as he sees it) he's being evicted and has to go looking, along with a million others in a tight and expensive market. I am just playing devil's advocate here! In his eyes, he has probably heard that the PTRB will be on his side and he will get to stay, etc., etc., etc.

I wonder if it's any use looking to have a sit down with him about it?

Best of luck.. It's a nasty situation for you both...

I think you are right. I phoned him last week and told him my situation and that I would be sending him notice. He was all understanding and it was an amicable call.
I said I had to send the notice in writing as per rules and he would receive it soon. All good.

So now he has received the notice he probably some to someone whispering in his ear and riling him up. He won't answer my calls or texts now.

So it has escalated quickly.

Ashbx

I agree with Secondrowgal, I think the difference is OP, you understand where your landlord is coming from because (i) you are a landlord yourself. I think most tenants (myself included) don't think about how its affecting the landlord and just think about how its affecting us personally and (ii) you actually have another home to fall back on.

Your tenants don't have another house to fall back on. I know if I was in your tenants position, I would be upset too. So yes, while its a huge inconvenience to you to have to move back to your house and evict your current tenants, I think you should consider yourself lucky you have that option to go back to your house.

Its such a horrible situation for you OP. Your getting stung at both ends unfortunately!!

Moonbeam

At the end of the day renting is only a temporary measure nobody can expect to live in somebody else's house indefinitely and at below market rent.

davindub

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Well it's funny how things work out.
I got my notice of my part 4 ending and I'm ok with it. My landlord has been stung by the rent control. So have I.

So I gave notice to end my own tenants part 4 after it expires and I got word from him that I am not allowed to do that and that he will fight me tooth and nail, RTB, reporting me, solicitors etc.

This guy I would have considered a casual friend before. Never had a problem with him nor he with me. He has had the apartment always at at below market rate for nearly 4 years. And at the moment it is 30% below market rate. I never intended to raise his rent while he was there.
And now that my circumstances have changed and I need it myself he is turning into a tenant from hell.

I need to think about my next steps now but one thing is certain. I will never give discounts on the rent again. Actually I was already thinking I wouldn't be doing conventional letting again anyway, and this is now making up my mind totally.

I was always good to him and then when I in need myself his true colours emerge.
You would think he owned the apartment and not me. And I suppose that's how the RTB think too.

If I could even out the rent up to market rate he could stay and I could rent somewhere else instead, but I can't. For that matter even if my current landlord cut out my rent up toarket rent I could stay but he can't, says he can never be sure even if I paid him without telling anyone that I wouldn't come back in a few years to bite him. I see what he means now.

Watch this space. More to come I'm sure.

Were you not discussing your plans to rent the place short term, remove the furniture, etc because you cannot get market rent?

jamesthepeach

davindub wrote: »

Were you not discussing your plans to rent the place short term, remove the furniture, etc because you cannot get market rent?

That's when I rent it again.
Need to live in it before then.
Don't know what I'll do with it then yet tbh.