Has farming become a rich persons game?

390kid

Has farming become a well off persons game or is there something im missing ? The reason for my post is the last 2 years trying to get started on my own seems impossible with the price of land for leasing and the deposits and other hold ups for trying to buy land. Can anyone relate to this or am I just whinging ?

Panch18

no its the exact opposite, its a poor man's game that will only make you poorer.

It's hugely capital intensive with little return - only madness keeps it going

Capercaillie

Panch18 wrote: »

It's hugely capital intensive with little return - only madness keeps it going

I have both, but more of the latter............

Pidae.m

If you wanna make a small fortune out of it start with a large one.

Panch18 wrote: »

no its the exact opposite, its a poor man's game that will only make you poorer.

It's hugely capital intensive with little return - only madness keeps it going

Birdnuts

Farmers nowadays are just slaves for big-agribusiness - the likes of the meat factories, chemical companies etc. A policy strongly supported by the state agri bodies and sadly many so called farming "organisations":(

Who2

I always had money until I started farming properly, now it just seems to disappear.

pedigree 6

Who2 wrote: »

I always had money until I started farming properly, now it just seems to disappear.

Whatcha spending it on?

Grueller

Who2 wrote: »

I always had money until I started farming properly, now it just seems to disappear.

Myself and the wife have two good jobs, had plenty disposable income. We started farming in our own right when we bought a piece of land a few years back. On paper, with our current stocking rate and the equity we have built up in the land due to its appreciation in value and the debt we have already paid down, our net worth has dramatically increased.
Our disposable income has drastically decreased though.
Are we better off? Depends on your perspective but we are as happy as pigs in sh1t here at it and that is all that matters to us.

To answer the original question, you need a lot of capital or very good off farm income to get started from scratch. Best of luck with it 390kid. Perseverance and you will get there.

pedigree 6

390kid wrote: »

Has farming become a well off persons game or is there something im missing ? The reason for my post is the last 2 years trying to get started on my own seems impossible with the price of land for leasing and the deposits and other hold ups for trying to buy land. Can anyone relate to this or am I just whinging ?

Move to Paraguay.:)

https://www.sovereignman.com/lifestyle-design/one-of-the-cheapest-places-in-the-world-to-buy-agricultural-land-6393/

http://southlandbrokers.net/paraguay/en/farmlands/4

(Where's dem Kerry farmers now?).

patsy_mccabe

Farming is a good way to become asset rich and income poor.

MayoSalmon

Panch18 wrote:

It's hugely capital intensive with little return - only madness keeps it going

Madness and subsidies

SILVAMAN

Birdnuts wrote: »

Farmers nowadays are just slaves for big-agribusiness - the likes of the meat factories, chemical companies etc. A policy strongly supported by the state agri bodies and sadly many so called farming "organisations":(

I've wondered why farmers don't forsake the agri companies and set up their own cooperative system again. They could buy competitively and set up their own meat factories, and sell their own produce.

freedominacup

SILVAMAN wrote: »

I've wondered why farmers don't forsake the agri companies and set up their own cooperative system again. They could buy competitively and set up their own meat factories, and sell their own produce.

Google clover meats for an insight. Prime example of farmers running a business like this.

Who2

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Whatcha spending it on?

I couldn't pin point anything in particular. There's always some hole for it to disappear into. I've no borrowings, to speak of,we both work, have what would on paper be excellent incomes but just always have some hole to bury both time and money into. Don't get me wrong I love doing it, but it's not a real money maker. Asset rich is great but realistically it will never be properly utilised.

rangler1

SILVAMAN wrote: »

I've wondered why farmers don't forsake the agri companies and set up their own cooperative system again. They could buy competitively and set up their own meat factories, and sell their own produce.

Doesn't always work, Farmers owned meat factories thirty years ago and went broke, My father put money into it and lost it for the differ, he also put money in local COOP that finished up in Glanbia so it wasn't all bad.

20silkcut

SILVAMAN wrote: »

I've wondered why farmers don't forsake the agri companies and set up their own cooperative system again. They could buy competitively and set up their own meat factories, and sell their own produce.

This will not make one bit of difference. The biggest factor curtailing income in the agri sector is protectionism.

It is not Larry goodman.

It is not big agri business.

It is not the price of land.

It is not the price of inputs.

Protectionism is a proven method of reducing incomes for everybody. That is precisely why incomes in farming are so underwhelming.
To get rid of protectionism means wiping out at least half the farming industry and that is not going to happen anytime soon so let the madness continue. Long may it continue.

freedominacup

rangler1 wrote: »

Doesn't always work, Farmers owned meat factories thirty years ago and went broke, My father put money into it and lost it for the differ, he also put money in local COOP that finished up in Glanbia so it wasn't all bad.

Some of the stuff I'm hearing about the glanbia proposals would make you despair tbh. The notions some of the prospective and current board members have about how it will be run in the future are frightening. The only thing that the plc had in it's favour was the discipline it enforced on farmer board members. I can see a significant amount of plc shares having to be sold in a relatively short period of time to pay for the follies of farmer board members. The plc will let them at it this time too as more plc shares out of farmer control is very desirable for them.

whelan2

freedominacup wrote: »

Some of the stuff I'm hearing about the glanbia proposals would make you despair tbh. The notions some of the prospective and current board members have about how it will be run in the future are frightening. The only thing that the plc had in it's favour was the discipline it enforced on farmer board members. I can see a significant amount of plc shares having to be sold in a relatively short period of time to pay for the follies of farmer board members. The plc will let them at it this time too as more plc shares out of farmer control is very desirable for them.

Seems to be very quiet on the new glanbia joint venture side of things. Is it a done deal ? Or is the fight gone?

mauser77

Has farming become a rich man's game no not really the biggest problem with farming from my take on it is its not a level playing field. Farming here stocked at just over 2lu/h lad out the road same sized farm same land type stocked at less than half a unit but his basic payment is over double what mine is all because of what his father done 20 odd year's ago. If the person who wants to farm was compensated for the work he put in then rich man poor man wouldn't come into it. Level playing field for all but that ain't ever going to happen so op start small let the farm pay for itself and don't leave yourself stuck and in 2 or 3 year's things will look better. You don't have to do everything the first year even tho it would be nice too

kowtow

whelan2 wrote:

Seems to be very quiet on the new glanbia joint venture side of things. Is it a done deal ? Or is the fight gone?

I think you are all off to the races.. but they want you to vote while you are there.

20silkcut

mauser77 wrote: »

Has farming become a rich man's game no not really the biggest problem with farming from my take on it is its not a level playing field. Farming here stocked at just over 2lu/h lad out the road same sized farm same land type stocked at less than half a unit but his basic payment is over double what mine is all because of what his father done 20 odd year's ago. If the person who wants to farm was compensated for the work he put in then rich man poor man wouldn't come into it. Level playing field for all but that ain't ever going to happen so op start small let the farm pay for itself and don't leave yourself stuck and in 2 or 3 year's things will look better. You don't have to do everything the first year even tho it would be nice too

This is true I remember doing a farm walk on a farm that planted 100 acres of top quality agricultural land with oak trees. When asked why he planted it his response was that it would take him a million euros to get the place up and going as a proper farm. A lot of us just shook our head in disbelief.
I started out myself with 12 suck calves on 90 acres and no loans. Farmed about 8 acres rented out the rest. After 5 years I am at 48 yearlings farming 44 acres with the rest of the land still rented out. That was including making a bad decision in year two which set me back. If you can just ignore what's going on around you and forget about keeping up with the jones in the farming sense and to a certain degree the living sense and stick to your goals it is very do-able especially with some form of off farm employment. If you want to be fully stocked and fully equipped straight off then your like your man with the oak trees needing a million to get things off the ground.

visatorro

20silkcut wrote: »

This is true I remember doing a farm walk on a farm that planted 100 acres of top quality agricultural land with oak trees. When asked why he planted it his response was that it would take him a million euros to get the place up and going as a proper farm. A lot of us just shook our head in disbelief.
I started out myself with 12 suck calves on 90 acres and no loans. Farmed about 8 acres rented out the rest. After 5 years I am at 48 yearlings farming 44 acres with the rest of the land still rented out. That was including making a bad decision in year two which set me back. If you can just ignore what's going on around you and forget about keeping up with the jones in the farming sense and to a certain degree the living sense and stick to your goals it is very do-able especially with some form of off farm employment. If you want to be fully stocked and fully equipped straight off then your like your man with the oak trees needing a million to get things off the ground.

Fair play.

390kid

20silkcut wrote: »

This is true I remember doing a farm walk on a farm that planted 100 acres of top quality agricultural land with oak trees. When asked why he planted it his response was that it would take him a million euros to get the place up and going as a proper farm. A lot of us just shook our head in disbelief.
I started out myself with 12 suck calves on 90 acres and no loans. Farmed about 8 acres rented out the rest. After 5 years I am at 48 yearlings farming 44 acres with the rest of the land still rented out. That was including making a bad decision in year two which set me back. If you can just ignore what's going on around you and forget about keeping up with the jones in the farming sense and to a certain degree the living sense and stick to your goals it is very do-able especially with some form of off farm employment. If you want to be fully stocked and fully equipped straight off then your like your man with the oak trees needing a million to get things off the ground.

Well done I really admire how you got things up and going for yourself. And your right to an extent maybe I should cut my cloth to fit my back for a while. I just found it frustrating being out bidded for leases on land and to me it didn't seem feasible to go on any more

390kid

mauser77 wrote: »

Has farming become a rich man's game no not really the biggest problem with farming from my take on it is its not a level playing field. Farming here stocked at just over 2lu/h lad out the road same sized farm same land type stocked at less than half a unit but his basic payment is over double what mine is all because of what his father done 20 odd year's ago. If the person who wants to farm was compensated for the work he put in then rich man poor man wouldn't come into it. Level playing field for all but that ain't ever going to happen so op start small let the farm pay for itself and don't leave yourself stuck and in 2 or 3 year's things will look better. You don't have to do everything the first year even tho it would be nice too

Thanks for that. You make a valid point with the level playing field and not having to do everything the first year. I just seem to be letting it get the better of me lately

Dickie10

just seen this thread when i was looking for april photo thread. id like to know how OP is getting on now? i started on my own back two years ago, but very differnt to OP. i had the stock to start off probably 120k euro of stock so thats a help. i got 100% stock relief this year for 2016 so luckily i dont have to pay any tax this year, although i chose to pay 1500 along with 1500 the revenue owe me from sub teaching.

390kid

Dickie10 wrote: »

just seen this thread when i was looking for april photo thread. id like to know how OP is getting on now? i started on my own back two years ago, but very differnt to OP. i had the stock to start off probably 120k euro of stock so thats a help. i got 100% stock relief this year for 2016 so luckily i dont have to pay any tax this year, although i chose to pay 1500 along with 1500 the revenue owe me from sub teaching.

Well Dickie10. Nothing much has changed still operating along with the aul boy, currently looking into a partnership opportunity to see if that would suit. Land availability being a big constraint here! Had you many knocks when you were starting up?

Icelandicseige

20silkcut wrote: »

This is true I remember doing a farm walk on a farm that planted 100 acres of top quality agricultural land with oak trees. When asked why he planted it his response was that it would take him a million euros to get the place up and going as a proper farm. A lot of us just shook our head in disbelief.
I started out myself with 12 suck calves on 90 acres and no loans. Farmed about 8 acres rented out the rest. After 5 years I am at 48 yearlings farming 44 acres with the rest of the land still rented out. That was including making a bad decision in year two which set me back. If you can just ignore what's going on around you and forget about keeping up with the jones in the farming sense and to a certain degree the living sense and stick to your goals it is very do-able especially with some form of off farm employment. If you want to be fully stocked and fully equipped straight off then your like your man with the oak trees needing a million to get things off the ground.

Yep all well and good I wonder who is better off financially from there decision. I'm not knocking you but your priortys are to keep the farm going , put in work and take little if anything from it, but they Oak trees make more financial sence with Less work. What state the land will be in after is another story.
I don't see why anyone would be shaking there head at his decision though. That puzzles me. His land his choice. Not yours!!

queueeye

Its a rich persons game in so far as you have to be in dairying in a reasonably big and efficient way or else you will need some form of complementary or off farm job. You will make beer or holiday money from anything else unless its on a huge scale. The irish beef industry is essentially a part timers operation given the amount of cattle you'd need to sell to make anything like the average industrial wage without subsidies. The tillage sector is fast becoming a non entity given the paltry price of grain and its not going to change any time soon.
Completely agree with the sentiment about paddling your own canoe and not being influenced by the neighbours.

Donegalforever

SILVAMAN wrote: »

I've wondered why farmers don't forsake the agri companies and set up their own cooperative system again. They could buy competitively and set up their own meat factories, and sell their own produce.

We were supposed to have that already in the form of Co-Ops, some Marts etc.

My experience would suggest that the Co-Ops may be able to buy competitively but they don't pass it on to their members, a lot of the time.

In some instants I can buy items cheaper from privately owned companies

Bass Reeves

Icelandicseige wrote: »

Yep all well and good I wonder who is better off financially from there decision. I'm not knocking you but your priortys are to keep the farm going , put in work and take little if anything from it, but they Oak trees make more financial sence with Less work. What state the land will be in after is another story.
I don't see why anyone would be shaking there head at his decision though. That puzzles me. His land his choice. Not yours!!

Quite simply by planting thepa oak he has turned land that was worth in excess of a million euro into a sub 500k piece of property.

Dickie10

didnt get any real knocks no. but i was very cautious, didnt buy any major machinery. bought a new double deck trailer ifor williams last year and a 99 land cruiser this year for 1600. thats it i put the money into stock and fencing. a chance has come along to take 80 acres of land about 15 miles from me. this could be a game changer , im going to put it up on general forum see what people think