Two IP cams on the same ethernet cable?

Irish Stones

Hi all,
First off I would like to make it clear that I don't know much about networks, so you would need to use plain words with me
I have a surveillance camera outside the house, with its own 12V power supply and an ethernet cable to the NVR inside the house.
I would like to add a camera nearby the first one to cover the same area from a different point of view:
Is it possible to add any small device in order to use the same cable for the two cams (the power will be supplied from the same power supply)? I can't run a second length of ethernet cable. The cable currently laid is a CAT-6 cable, about 20 metres long.
I have searched the web but the solutions are for different needs and sometimes these articles use words that are outside my basic knowledge.
Thanks a million!

Johnboy1951

I would also be concerned that the PSU would not be capable of powering two cameras.

Spear

As a general principle, ethernet on cat 6 is meant to be star topology, e.g. one cable from each device back to any central device, e.g. router/switch. What you're describing would be a bus topology, and not something cat 6 is meant for.

Is any kind of Wifi based cams not an option?

Firewalkwithme

If you could find a way to install a switch close to where the existing cable connects into the camera you could then patch off other cameras into it. Is there enough slack on the cable for you to locate the switch anywhere?

seamus

What model is the camera?

Most IP Cams are capable of using PoE instead of a direct supply. So you can use a small switch with PoE to get both network and power to the two cameras.

So your existing CAT6 cable gets plugged into the switch, which is also plugged into power. Then you run CAT6 cables from the PoE ports to each camera.

Main issue is that presumably everything is outside, so you'll need some kind of housing to protect the switch from the elements and cables that are rated for outside use.

The high horse brigade

What model is the camera? This will give us more info like if it's passive or active Power over ethernet (POE)

Irish Stones

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I would also be concerned that the PSU would not be capable of powering two cameras.

Hi, the power supply is more than capable of powering two cameras. It has 5 A, the cams require 500 mA.

Spear wrote: »

As a general principle, ethernet on cat 6 is meant to be star topology, e.g. one cable from each device back to any central device, e.g. router/switch. What you're describing would be a bus topology, and not something cat 6 is meant for.

Is any kind of Wifi based cams not an option?

What kind of cable would have been suitable for bus topology?
The WiFi isn't an option because I had poor performances from that kind of cameras. For some reason the signal fails to reach the receiver.

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

If you could find a way to install a switch close to where the existing cable connects into the camera you could then patch off other cameras into it. Is there enough slack on the cable for you to locate the switch anywhere?

I could have enough cable to locate a switch. Would that be the kind of switch that you use for hubbing more than ethernet cable into a modem?
Thanks to everybody!

TheChizler

You could use two pairs in the cable for one camera and the other two pairs for the other; essentially splitting the cable in two. This would limit your link speed to 100 Mb/s; loads for a camera. You'd have to be careful about where the split happens to avoid water ingress etc.

Irish Stones

seamus wrote: »

What model is the camera?

Most IP Cams are capable of using PoE instead of a direct supply. So you can use a small switch with PoE to get both network and power to the two cameras.

So your existing CAT6 cable gets plugged into the switch, which is also plugged into power. Then you run CAT6 cables from the PoE ports to each camera.

Main issue is that presumably everything is outside, so you'll need some kind of housing to protect the switch from the elements and cables that are rated for outside use.

The high horse brigade wrote: »

What model is the camera? This will give us more info like if it's passive or active Power over ethernet (POE)

The cameras are Foscam FI9903P, not PoE, I think.
I have two of them, I am considering adding one cam next to one of them, or even one cam to each of them.
Thanks a lot!

Irish Stones

TheChizler wrote: »

You could use two pairs in the cable for one camera and the other two pairs for the other; essentially splitting the cable in two. This would limit your link speed to 100 Mb/s; loads for a camera. You'd have to be careful about where the split happens to avoid water ingress etc.

How do I choose which pair to use? And would the plit be "physical", I mean without any device or special connector in the middle.
The connection between the cam and the cable is made inside a waterproof box. Every additional connection will be made in there.
Thanks!

degsie

A splitter at both ends of the cable could work. You need two as two separate ports are required for this to work.

Dardania

TheChizler wrote: »

You could use two pairs in the cable for one camera and the other two pairs for the other; essentially splitting the cable in two. This would limit your link speed to 100 Mb/s; loads for a camera. You'd have to be careful about where the split happens to avoid water ingress etc.

This is a perfect solution - have done this before myself.
A sample off the shelf product to do it internally: https://www.amazon.com/Insten-Ethernet-Splitter-Connector-Adapter/dp/B003C2QS90 ;
Externally, I would tend to put it in an OBO box of sorts to protect from weather (and drill a drain hole at the bottom in case any condensation builds up):
http://webelec.ie/product_info.php?products_id=410

TheChizler

Dardania wrote: »

This is a perfect solution - have done this before myself.
A sample off the shelf product to do it internally: https://www.amazon.com/Insten-Ethernet-Splitter-Connector-Adapter/dp/B003C2QS90 
Externally, I would tend to put it in an OBO box of sorts to protect from weather (and drill a drain hole at the bottom in case any condensation builds up):
http://webelec.ie/product_info.php?products_id=410

That's the tidy way to do it, I normally get out the old soldering iron and electrical tape myself!

Not great in a high performance network but grand for the home network with low data rates.

TheChizler

Irish Stones wrote: »

How do I choose which pair to use? And would the plit be "physical", I mean without any device or special connector in the middle.
The connection between the cam and the cable is made inside a waterproof box. Every additional connection will be made in there.
Thanks!

Doesn't matter as long as you use pins 1,2,3, and 6, and it's the exact same at both ends, but the conventional way would be the right hand side of degsie's Ethernet Economiser image.

IMPORTANT!!! If wiring yourself use the right hand side of both image at both ends, don't go from one connector to two connectors, go from two connectors to two connectors. See the warning here.

Might be easiest to get something like this and USE ONE AT BOTH ENDS. This would avoid any wiring.

Irish Stones

Dardania wrote: »

This is a perfect solution - have done this before myself.
A sample off the shelf product to do it internally: https://www.amazon.com/Insten-Ethernet-Splitter-Connector-Adapter/dp/B003C2QS90

That splitter is amazing!
Actually I could have searched it myself, but wasn't even sure it could exist
I 'd just need a M/M RJ45 adapter because the cam has a short cable with a female RJ45 connector.
Thank you so much!

Dardania

Irish Stones wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

This is a perfect solution - have done this before myself.
A sample off the shelf product to do it internally: https://www.amazon.com/Insten-Ethernet-Splitter-Connector-Adapter/dp/B003C2QS90

That splitter is amazing!
Actually I could have searched it myself, but wasn't even sure it could exist
I 'd just need a M/M RJ45 adapter because the cam has a short cable with a female RJ45 connector.
Thank you so much!

Just be careful with too many connectors - where there's a connection, particularly outside, there's potential for corrosion to build up and cause failures.
So if using connectors, maybe even consider using heat shrink to seal it...:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0053PYAWQ/ref=s9_acsd_zwish_hd_bw_blQPPf_c_x_w?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-8&pf_rd_r=Z4GNZM23ANZPFZWSGZBB&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=27946f43-963c-5f78-8d5b-3c8005a0e4bc&pf_rd_i=700782011

Johnboy1951

Be careful of the device you purchase ....... most of those alleged splitter devices are not splitters at all.
For instance
https://www.amazon.co.uk/RJ45-Ethernet-Splitter-Connector-Adapter/dp/B015KN2MIE/ref=pd_sim_147_5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=HPCS5VAYWWMGFDZ56NZT

https://www.amazon.com/Insten-Ethernet-Splitter-Connector-Adapter/dp/B003C2QS90

those two will not allow both cameras to operate at the same time, because the connections are paralleled and not split.

This one IS a splitter, and is designed to do what is required.
It needs to be used as one of a pair ..... one at router and the other at cameras.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Cat5e-RJ45-UTP-Network-Cable-Lead-ECONOMISER-Ethernet-DATA-Splitter-Adaptor-5e-/172101337191

IMO you do also need to ensure that your PSU is capable of powering both cameras at the same time.

Irish Stones

Dardania wrote: »

Irish Stones wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

This is a perfect solution - have done this before myself.
A sample off the shelf product to do it internally: https://www.amazon.com/Insten-Ethernet-Splitter-Connector-Adapter/dp/B003C2QS90

That splitter is amazing!
Actually I could have searched it myself, but wasn't even sure it could exist
I 'd just need a M/M RJ45 adapter because the cam has a short cable with a female RJ45 connector.
Thank you so much!

Just be careful with too many connectors - where there's a connection, particularly outside, there's potential for corrosion to build up and cause failures.
So if using connectors, maybe even consider using heat shrink to seal it...:

Thanks, I will keep it in mind, though I think I have no choice about the adapters...

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Be careful of the device you purchase .......  most of those alleged splitter devices are not splitters at all.
...[CUT]...
those two will not allow both cameras to operate at the same time, because the connections are paralleled and not split.

This one IS a splitter, and is designed to do what is required.
It needs to be used as one of a pair ..... one at router and the other at cameras.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Cat5e-RJ45-UTP-Network-Cable-Lead-ECONOMISER-Ethernet-DATA-Splitter-Adaptor-5e-/172101337191

IMO you do also need to ensure that your PSU is capable of powering both cameras at the same time.

Thanks for the warning tip, I didn't know that!
The REAL splitter comes with the "wrong" connections. It is male on the cable and female on the block. My cable ends with a male RJ45 and the cams have female RJ45, so I would need adapters on all ends, with more critical connections
The power supply is capable enough for more than two cameras

degsie

Irish Stones wrote: »

The REAL splitter comes with the "wrong" connections. It is male on the cable and female on the block. My cable ends with a male RJ45 and the cams have female RJ45, so I would need adapters on all ends, with more critical connections
The power supply is capable enough for more than two cameras

A female-to-female coupler and a couple of short patch cords should be easy enough to find.

Irish Stones

degsie wrote: »

Irish Stones wrote: »

The REAL splitter comes with the "wrong" connections. It is male on the cable and female on the block. My cable ends with a male RJ45 and the cams have female RJ45, so I would need adapters on all ends, with more critical connections
The power supply is capable enough for more than two cameras

A female-to-female coupler and a couple of short patch cords should be easy enough to find.

Yes, I know that
I meant that every item added in the chain is a weak link of the chain, especially when they are outside.
Furthermore the junction box where all the connectors are isn't that large.