Have a property, want to rent it out but problem with water

christinek2010

Hi,

I have a home I would like to rent. I am eager to rent it due to the current rental crisis and I know that there are people who are in dier need of a home.

The only problem is that we have a issue with our well which we cannot afford to fix at the moment. The water is perfectly fine for showering ect. Although it is not drinkable.

Would we still be able to rent out a house this way or what would your advice on it be? We had a previous cliebt who was nothing but trouble so we are weary about renting again.

The_Conductor

I'm sorry Christine- there are minimal standards laid out which a rental property has to adhere to- one of which is the availability of drinking water.
If your well is suitable for showering/bathing, but not drinking- you must supply access to an alternate source of compliant drinking water (that the well water is suitable for bathing/showering is wholly immaterial).

You are opening yourself to a world of hassle letting this property- if you do not resolve this fairly fundamental issue.

pilly

Surely a deposit and a months rent in advance from someone would be enough to fix it?

The_Conductor

pilly wrote: »

Surely a deposit and a months rent in advance from someone would be enough to fix it?

Fix what though? A connection to the water mains? If it involves piping work etc, not a snowball's chance in hell that two months rent will fix it. Also, that's not the purpose of a deposit, its not compliant as an allowable cost, and the OP could well be a price taker, given the remoteness of the property.

Given the nature of the work, any rent paid would be taxable, unless the landlord has other costs which are allowed- so 2 month's rent, could mean the lions share might be payable to the Revenue Commissioners..........

The OP probably should get a proper survey done to try to ascertain whether they want to go down this road.

pilly

The_Conductor wrote: »

Fix what though? A connection to the water mains? If it involves piping work etc, not a snowball's chance in hell that two months rent will fix it. Also, that's not the purpose of a deposit, its not compliant as an allowable cost, and the OP could well be a price taker, given the remoteness of the property.

Given the nature of the work, any rent paid would be taxable, unless the landlord has other costs which are allowed- so 2 month's rent, could mean the lions share might be payable to the Revenue Commissioners..........

The OP probably should get a proper survey done to try to ascertain whether they want to go down this road.

It was merely a suggestion. You know nothing of the nature of the repair needed. It could be fairly minor if there's water there for showering etc.

ted1

Could you get a loan to resolve the issue and then use the rent to repay the loan ?

The_Conductor

pilly wrote: »

It was merely a suggestion. You know nothing of the nature of the repair needed. It could be fairly minor if there's water there for showering etc.

Sorry? What repair?
The OP has stated the property has a well as its sole source of water- and the quality of the water, while satisfactory for bathing purposes, is non-compliant with water quality rules for drinking water.

There is no 'repair' mentioned anywhere. The OP needs a source of drinking water. They do not have a source of drinking water at present. I mentioned piping- suggesting they may need to get a connection to a public water supply.

One way or the other- it is not a repair issue- its a supply issue- they do not have a supply of uncontaminated drinking water.

pilly

The_Conductor wrote: »

Sorry? What repair?
The OP has stated the property has a well as its sole source of water- and the quality of the water, while satisfactory for bathing purposes, is non-compliant with water quality rules for drinking water.

There is no 'repair' mentioned anywhere. The OP needs a source of drinking water. They do not have a source of drinking water at present. I mentioned piping- suggesting they may need to get a connection to a public water supply.

One way or the other- it is not a repair issue- its a supply issue- they do not have a supply of uncontaminated drinking water.

1. OP says it's a home so obviously it had a source of drinking water at some stage.

2. OP says that there is an issue with the well that they can't afford to fix at the moment.

I suggest you read OP again instead of trying to score stupid points off me.

nhunter100

pilly wrote:

2. OP says that there is an issue with the well that they can't afford to fix at the moment.

It sounds to me that the well is contaminated and if it is this requires a treatment system depending on the contamination.I'd even question is the water suitable to bathe in. None of which are cheap. You can't rent a dwelling that does not have a potable water supply.

athtrasna

And breathe...

Until the OP comes back with more info it's all supposition. No need to get personal about it.

OP have you been given information on what needs to be done to provide potable water to the house? And a ballpark figure?

Graces7

Interesting as I wonder often if we who rent can agree to less than the legal minimum standards? I agreed to take this house knowing the water supply was "from a mountain stream" and that I would need to bring in bottled water and I am fine with that. I do boil the stream water too. .

And looking back as I live deep rural this has been the case before and that has been fine with me.

Seeing how many people buy water in eg LIDL?

If there is openness?

pilly

Graces7 wrote:

Interesting as I wonder often if we who rent can agree to less than the legal minimum standards? I agreed to take this house knowing the water supply was "from a mountain stream" and that I would need to bring in bottled water and I am fine with that. I do boil the stream water too. .

A lot of people who live here who aren't Irish drink bottled water only. They look at me like I'm mad drinking from the tap at times.

nhunter100

Graces7 wrote:

Interesting as I wonder often if we who rent can agree to less than the legal minimum standards? I agreed to take this house knowing the water supply was "from a mountain stream" and that I would need to bring in bottled water and I am fine with that. I do boil the stream water too. .

Legal minimum standards are there for a reason.

Graham

OP you could talk to your local authority to see if they're interested in your property under the repair and lease initiative.

Under this scheme, the local authority will advance the funds you need to bring the property up-to standard, you then enter a lease agreement to rent the property back to the local authority. The costs of the repairs are taken out of the rent you receive over an agreed period.

jimmycrackcorm

Wouldn't an inline tap filter solve the drinking water problem. They are relatively inexpensive?

Graces7

nhunter100 wrote: »

Legal minimum standards are there for a reason.

I agree but eg they say these days a microwave and a freezer? My last two rentals had no microwave and this one no freezer but I am happy with that and have my own and am happy to boil and/or buy drinking water. There are a few other things listed in a similar vein. If i am happy with that?

In deep rural areas water is like this; no mains and not everyone has a well. The OP is very honest and if they get a tenant who is happy with that?

aloooof

Graces7 wrote: »

I agree but eg they say these days a microwave and a freezer? My last two rentals had no microwave and this one no freezer but I am happy with that and have my own and am happy to boil and/or buy drinking water. There are a few other things listed in a similar vein. If i am happy with that?

In deep rural areas water is like this; no mains and not everyone has a well. The OP is very honest and if they get a tenant who is happy with that?

There's obviously a world of difference between not having a potable water supply and not having a microwave.

The_Conductor

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Wouldn't an inline tap filter solve the dinting water problem. They are relatively inexpensive?

Depends on what exactly the issue is- Clostridium or other bacterial contamination- may be filterable- however, nitrates, sulphur or other contaminants- may not be easily removed.

I.e. it may be the difference between naturally occurring mineral or other contaminants- versus a sloppy neighbour who has caused contamination with slurry/fertiliser or other.

Either way- it is not permissible to let a property without a supply of drinking water.

nhunter100

Graces7 wrote:

In deep rural areas water is like this; no mains and not everyone has a well. The OP is very honest and if they get a tenant who is happy with that?

Running drinking water is a legal requirement, where do you draw the line. Maybe the OP would be happy to drop 200 euro pm off the rental price for lack of water. It's still illegal.

Mrs OBumble

The_Conductor wrote: »

Depends on what exactly the issue is- Clostridium or other bacterial contamination- may be filterable- however, nitrates, sulphur or other contaminants- may not be easily removed.

I.e. it may be the difference between naturally occurring mineral or other contaminants- versus a sloppy neighbour who has caused contamination with slurry/fertiliser or other.

Either way- it is not permissible to let a property without a supply of drinking water.

Would the LL delivering a certain number of bottles each week count as a supply? Or does it have to be a piped, limitless supply?

Graham

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Would the LL delivering a certain number of bottles each week count as a supply? Or does it have to be a piped, limitless supply?

Piped:

Sink, with a piped supply of potable cold water taken direct from the
service pipe supplying water from the public main or other source to
the building containing the house

Source: HOUSING (STANDARDS FOR RENTED HOUSES) REGULATIONS 2017

The_Conductor

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Would the LL delivering a certain number of bottles each week count as a supply? Or does it have to be a piped, limitless supply?

It has to be a piped supply- its not designed to be limitless- this was discussed before- to the best of my knowledge the extent of the supply depends on the size of the property and how many people are supposed to dwell there- multiplied by 1,400 litres per day (which seems like an awful lot to me).

So- its a vast supply- but not limitless.

Graham

The_Conductor wrote: »

It has to be a piped supply- its not designed to be limitless- this was discussed before- to the best of my knowledge the extent of the supply depends on the size of the property and how many people are supposed to dwell there- multiplied by 1,400 litres per day (which seems like an awful lot to me).

So- its a vast supply- but not limitless.

There's nothing in the legislation to indicate any specific volumes.

the_syco

pilly wrote: »

It was merely a suggestion. You know nothing of the nature of the repair needed. It could be fairly minor if there's water there for showering etc.

I'm assuming that the OP was advised that the water from the well should not be drank by humans.

To clarify this; the OP may have drank from the well, having grown up drinking it, gained a resistance to any harmful bacteria. But should someone else drink from it, they'd get sick. I find this a lot in some areas of the countryside, where the water would be from a local well, and although the locals would not get sick from drinking it, a blow-in would.

Borzoi

aloooof wrote: »

There's obviously a world of difference between not having a potable water supply and not having a microwave.

legally there isn't, both are required by law. which demonstrates the poor thinking of those that draft our laws.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

TresGats

Have you thought about getting a Reverse Osmosis system installed? They can be bought outright for about 3-400e, or rented for 3.99 a week. They can filter just the drinking water, or the whole water supply to the house. A lot cheaper than buying bottled.
Some information on R.O. water and crypto -https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/crypto/gen_info/filters.html

Graces7

testicles wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Some common sense at last. Thank you.

I am happy with the water supply here as I have been elsewhere. Legalism in individual circumstances does not appeal. Or apply.

I knew what the supply was before I took the rental. When you rent two miles up a mountain track you know what you are doing. I would not expect mains water or a drilled deep well in a remote isolated cottage like this. Easy enough to boil or filter or buy in water.

Acceptance is all as with a microwave or freezer.

These are basic safeguards which it is good to have of course, and a general guide only. As long as the tenant knows and is able and aware.

The OP is honest about it all. There is no deception, and good concern.

Graces7

nhunter100 wrote: »

Running drinking water is a legal requirement, where do you draw the line. Maybe the OP would be happy to drop 200 euro pm off the rental price for lack of water. It's still illegal.

The law is for what? To protect the tenant from ?? I know the supply here and accept it with its limitations. Period. I draw the line there; consenting adult .

The_Conductor

Graces7 wrote: »

These are basic safeguards which it is good to have of course, and a general guide only. As long as the tenant knows and is able and aware.

The OP is honest about it all. There is no deception, and good concern.

This is just not the case though.
Yes- its a basic safeguard- but no, definitely no, it is not just a general guide- it is the law, period.

You do not get to decide what parts of the law you want to be compliant with- and which parts its convenient to ignore or brush under the carpet.

The purpose of regulations concerning potable water supplies- are to protect people's health. It is not permissable for someone, knowingly or otherwise, to abdicate their rights or their responsibilities under this law (or indeed any other law).

Just because you are cognisant of the situation, and accepting of it, with your eyes wide open- does not mean it is right, safe or legal- frankly- it isn't.

In any event- I doubt you are the OP's tenant (or ex-tenant)- and you have absolutely no idea of what is the contamination associated with their water- so your acceptance of well water elsewhere, that you may be satisfied with- may be of no significance whatsoever in the OP's case.

Just to reiterate- it is not the prerogative of tenants or landlords to abdicate their legal rights or responsibilities towards one another.

What about areas with long term water problems or contaminations? Does this this render every rental illegal and prevent LLs from stating new lets? This could be in the middle of a city and go on for a long time.

The_Conductor

Kara Plump Hijacker wrote: »

What about areas with long term water problems or contaminations? Does this this render every rental illegal and prevent LLs from stating new lets? This could be in the middle of a city and go on for a long time.

Depends on the nature of the contamination- but you can buy/install bacterial filtration systems which allegedly will clean the water better than mains water- other contaminants, such as iron/sulphur/Ca etc- may be more difficult to control.

Really depends- its not a blanket every rental in Area X is illegal- it may be more prescriptive measures that must be implemented to bring the water supplies up to spec.

Yes- I suppose I am splitting straws.

pilly

The_Conductor wrote: »

This is just not the case though.
Yes- its a basic safeguard- but no, definitely no, it is not just a general guide- it is the law, period.

You do not get to decide what parts of the law you want to be compliant with- and which parts its convenient to ignore or brush under the carpet.

The purpose of regulations concerning potable water supplies- are to protect people's health. It is not permissable for someone, knowingly or otherwise, to abdicate their rights or their responsibilities under this law (or indeed any other law).

Just because you are cognisant of the situation, and accepting of it, with your eyes wide open- does not mean it is right, safe or legal- frankly- it isn't.

In any event- I doubt you are the OP's tenant (or ex-tenant)- and you have absolutely no idea of what is the contamination associated with their water- so your acceptance of well water elsewhere, that you may be satisfied with- may be of no significance whatsoever in the OP's case.

Just to reiterate- it is not the prerogative of tenants or landlords to abdicate their legal rights or responsibilities towards one another.

I think you're putting it way too literally.

Are you trying to say in a situation where a both a tenant and LL are happy that someone else is going to enter the picture to enforce the law?

In reality that doesn't happen.

Tenants can and do decide what they will accept all the time.

The_Conductor

pilly wrote: »

Tenants can and do decide what they will accept all the time.

And then 6 weeks after the tenancy has ended- lob a compliance case into the RTB- which they win hands down, as the landlord hasn't a foot to stand on........

As well as being a health a safety measure- its also a protection measure- both financial and reputational- for a landlord.

Yes- people do agree to waive rights and obligations- it doesn't mean they are right to- and if either party decided to go back on it- they have the law on their side (the flipside of the coin might be the landlord deciding he/she wants the property back- and using the fact that it is non-compliant as a mechanism to force the tenant out).

Certainly there are health and safety reasons to be considered- however, there are other factors that are also to the fore.

Graces7

The_Conductor wrote: »

And then 6 weeks after the tenancy has ended- lob a compliance case into the RTB- which they win hands down, as the landlord hasn't a foot to stand on........

As well as being a health a safety measure- its also a protection measure- both financial and reputational- for a landlord.

Yes- people do agree to waive rights and obligations- it doesn't mean they are right to- and if either party decided to go back on it- they have the law on their side (the flipside of the coin might be the landlord deciding he/she wants the property back- and using the fact that it is non-compliant as a mechanism to force the tenant out).

Certainly there are health and safety reasons to be considered- however, there are other factors that are also to the fore.

You are surely ovethinking this. making life far too complicated. Imagining all kinds of things that will not happen, well not out here.It is very simple.
In all my years renting in Ireland I have only twice had mains water and it was... undrinkable in that it was full of chemicals. Might be technically " potable" but not drinkable.

My chosen way harms no one. At times as Dickens avers " the law is a ASS" and far too much intervention.

We in deep rural areas all have favourite wells and springs we gather water in from. Just a different way of life out here. Gathered water in today as always.

Civil law not criminal law of course

The_Conductor

Graces7 - you haven't clarified whether, or not, you're the OP's tenant- however, I will make a working assumption you are by your insistence on personalising your posts on the topic in the manner in which you are doing.

If you're not the OP's tenant- please stop trying to murky the water (if you'll excuse the pun)- as you are pushing to have the OP let a house which is not compliant with housing rental standards.

We are not allowed to discuss topics which are in breach of the law here- so please refrain from doing so.

Graces7

The_Conductor wrote: »

Graces7 - you haven't clarified whether, or not, you're the OP's tenant- however, I will make a working assumption you are by your insistence on personalising your posts on the topic in the manner in which you are doing.

If you're not the OP's tenant- please stop trying to murky the water (if you'll excuse the pun)- as you are pushing to have the OP let a house which is not compliant with housing rental standards.

We are not allowed to discuss topics which are in breach of the law here- so please refrain from doing so.

I hear thee my friend and the OP has the answer SHE needs. This has helped me greatly clarify my own thoughts etc so thank you!

The_Conductor

Graces7 wrote: »

I hear thee my friend and the OP has the answer SHE needs. This has helped me greatly clarify my own thoughts etc so thank you!

I'm not sure how I've helped- but you're more than welcome.