Notice Served Advise Please

Jayball09

Hi Folks

Returned home today to a lovely letter from our landlord.

Basically you have 2 months to get out as he wants to sell up.

There is nothing in the lease that says anything about the landlord reserving the right to ask tennants to leave or something along those lines.

Ive spoke to a few people and the advise ive got is a lease is a 2 way contract and if the landlord wants us out before its up then he needs to buy us out.

The notification does mention something about the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 and 2015 but from what I see, they just relate to how the notice was given. Some other advise I got was to have a legal person look over all the documents and advise.

Im sure this topic has come up before so i will go through the forum when I have a minute but im a bit busy at the moment.

So if anyone could offer any advise in the meantime that would be great. I just want to make sure this notice is above aboard as its not the best of times to happen but Mr. Landlord doesnt care about that.

Cheers,

dudara

Do you have a lease with a fixed end date? And how long have you been in the tenancy?

TheChizler

A few quick questions before we can analyse one way or another. Do you have a lease? Does it have an end date? Do you rent the whole property? Does any one else live with you? Has the landlord reserved any area that he regularly uses? Are you in any sort of property guardian arrangement (you'll know if you are). How long are you living there? What reasons did they state in the letter?

Jayball09

Hi

All answers to questions asked so far:

Do you have a lease with a fixed end date?

- Yes,

And how long have you been in the tenancy?

- Moved in Oct 14

Do you have a lease?

Yes

Does it have an end date?

Yes - in Oct 17

Do you rent the whole property?

Yes

Does any one else live with you?

My wife

Has the landlord reserved any area that he regularly uses?

No

Are you in any sort of property guardian arrangement (you'll know if you are).

No

How long are you living there?

2.5 years

What reasons did they state in the letter?

Sell the property

Thanks for all the help folks!

Cheshire Cat

After 2.5 years the landlord has to give you 8 weeks notice. BUT the fixed term lease trumps that, unless there is a break clause in your fixed term lease the LL can't get you out until the end of the lease.
Get on to the RTB and raise a dispute re the validity of the notice.

pilly

Okay, there's absolutely no way that the LL can ask you to leave in 2 weeks if your answers above are correct.

Get straight on to the RTB.

Jayball09

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

After 2.5 years the landlord has to give you 8 weeks notice. BUT the fixed term lease trumps that, unless there is a break clause in your fixed term lease the LL can't get you out until the end of the lease.
Get on to the RTB and raise a dispute re the validity of the notice.

Cheers for the reply.

Checked lease.

Break clause option: None

I will certainly get onto the RTB

Jayball09

pilly wrote: »

Okay, there's absolutely no way that the LL can ask you to leave in 2 weeks if your answers above are correct.

Get straight on to the RTB.

Thanks for the reply.

Notice is 2 months not 2 weeks. Sorry just realized I made a typo!

Atomic Pineapple

We had the same thing happen where our landlord wanted to move back into the house themselves, they gave us 8 weeks notice as per the referenced act and when we queried it legally we were told the landlord were well within their right to do so. Not sure if the fact the landlord needed the house for themselves as opposed to selling it makes a difference here though.

Guy Sajer

The landlord has to sign a declaration and i'd be asking him for a copy of it

"Under the new rules, a landlord will have to sign a statutory declaration saying they want to issue notice to tenants in order to sell the property."

from here https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.thejournal.ie/landlord-selling-property-2742723-May2016/%3Famp%3D1

Graham

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

We had the same thing happen where our landlord wanted to move back into the house themselves, they gave us 8 weeks notice as per the referenced act and when we queried it legally we were told the landlord were well within their right to do so. Not sure if the fact the landlord needed the house for themselves as opposed to selling it makes a difference here though.

What may make a difference to the OP is the fact they have a fixed term lease.

Unless there is a break clause in the lease the OP should be safe until the end of their lease. If there is a break clause, the OP is still entitled to the minimum notice periods.

pilly

Jayball09 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

Notice is 2 months not 2 weeks. Sorry just realized I made a typo!

Ah well that makes all the difference. Looks like that's the correct amount of notice then.

accensi0n

pilly wrote: »

Ah well that makes all the difference. Looks like that's the correct amount of notice then.

If it is given in Aug 2017.

pilly

accensi0n wrote: »

If it is given in Aug 2017.

I know some people are saying that but I'm just not sure the lease matters when the house is being sold.

Graham

pilly wrote: »

I know some people are saying that but I'm just not sure the lease matters when the house is being sold.

It's a contract, why would it be invalidated because a landlord changes their mind? Unless of course the contract specifically provides for it.

A landlord can only terminate a fixed term tenancy where the tenant has been in breach of his or her obligations. Accordingly, a landlord cannot rely on the provisions of Section 34, to terminate a fixed term tenancy during the fixed term.

EXPLANATORY NOTE
Greater Security of Tenure
Landlords and tenants are free to agree as part of the tenancy arrangement, more beneficial rights in favour of the tenant, than are created by Part 4. This is permitted by Section 26 of the Act. Accordingly a landlord and a tenant may agree a greater security of tenure in favour of a tenant. An example of this is where a landlord and tenant agree that the tenancy will be for a fixed term.

Source RTB

The exception to this would appear to be where the lease provides for a break in the case of the sale of the property. In which case normal notice periods apply.

Graces7

If the landlord is selling does he not have to get a Certificate from a solicitor and sell within 3 months?

Graham

Graham wrote: »

It's a contract, why would it be invalidated because a landlord changes their mind? Unless of course the contract specifically provides for it.

It is a contract and you would think you can't just "change your mind", unless you are a tenant of course who can walk away from a lease at anytime.

Graces7 wrote: »

If the landlord is selling does he not have to get a Certificate from a solicitor and sell within 3 months?

Only have to intend to sell in 3 months not actually sell.

pilly

Graham wrote: »

It's a contract, why would it be invalidated because a landlord changes their mind? Unless of course the contract specifically provides for it.




Source RTB

The exception to this would appear to be where the lease provides for a break in the case of the sale of the property. In which case normal notice periods apply.

The reason I would think that is because tenants walk away from leases all the time.

TheChizler

pilly wrote: »

The reason I would think that is because tenants walk away from leases all the time.

Not without penalty if they don't do it properly.

seamus

pilly wrote: »

The reason I would think that is because tenants walk away from leases all the time.

They've still broken a contract, the landlord just can't be bothered chasing it, probably because there are ten new tenants queuing up to get the property.

Nevertheless if you have a fixed term lease and it doesn't contain a break clause, then he can't serve you two months notice.

Well he can, but it's not valid. Simple as. There are no hidden loopholes for special circumstances.

Jayball09

Folks thanks so much for all the replies and advise.

I have my Auntie looking over all our documents this evening (she was in the property game) just to check if I've missed anything and if not I will be logging a dispute on RTB tomorrow.

I will update on the outcome.

Sarn

I would try and resolve it with your LL first, reminding him of his obligations. Failing that, contact the RTB. While not an excuse, some LLs are useless when it comes to their legal requirements.

Just as a matter of interest, does the notice period for a fixed term tenancy need to take into account the full fixed term when determining how long should be given? That is a three year fixed term contract would require the notice to be as if you were there for three years, given that you are entitled to be there for three years. It brings up the interpretation on whether or not notice can be given during a fixed term tenancy.

I note that the RTB says that the LL can only exercise his rights to terminate a tenancy under Part IV after the fixed term has expired.

Claw Hammer

There is a view by the RTB that notice can't be given during a fixed term. After the fixed term the notice can be given but it must be fore the time the tenancy has lasted up to that point.

Jayball09

Hey Folks

Thanks so much for all the reply and advise on this.

I have logged to the RTB and have a hearing in a few weeks.

Quick question, does anyone know how long these hearings last for and what to expect?

Thanks,

PMBC

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

After 2.5 years the landlord has to give you 8 weeks notice. BUT the fixed term lease trumps that, unless there is a break clause in your fixed term lease the LL can't get you out until the end of the lease.
Get on to the RTB and raise a dispute re the validity of the notice.

What, in general wording, would a break clause read like? Thanks

Graham

PMBC wrote: »

What, in general wording, would a break clause read like? Thanks

...... may terminate the lease before ........ to sell/market the property.......

along those lines. It wouldn't be too difficult to spot if you read through the lease carefully.