Brexit investment in Enterprise?

Charles Babbage

Charlie Flanagan calls for investment in Dublin-Belfast rail line.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/time-to-board-that-brexit-special-train-35628206.html

While the one hour travel time might be too optimistic, any investment is to be welcomed in this and other infrastructure projects.

Subpopulus

Good discussion on this here:

https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/04/17/is-a-60-minute-belfast-dublin-train-journey-time-realistic/

Del.Monte

There's been all sorts of investment in the Dublin/Belfast line in recent years but timings are worse now than 20 years ago. The damn DART has a lot to answer for and what the hell would Charlie Flanagan know about it anyway?

Subpopulus

Del.Monte wrote: »

There's been all sorts of investment in the Dublin/Belfast line in recent years but timings are worse now than 20 years ago. The damn DART has a lot to answer for and what the hell would Charlie Flanagan know about it anyway?

What I'd like to know is if there's any workable alternative to four-tracking the line in the Dublin suburbs, because to me that seems like a practical impossibility due to the costs involved?

Would quad-tracking a section between say, Malahide and Howth Junction, to allow overtaking do anything to speed up intercity trains?

Jamie2k9

Seek EU funding for a railway that doesn't benefit the EU or Ireland in any way, they will only be delighted to hand it over! Expanding the M1 would give a better return or how about (as crazy as it seems) investing in the Republic of Ireland in terms of high speed rail, you know the people who elected you.

MGWR

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Charlie Flanagan calls for investment in Dublin-Belfast rail line.

Time to board that 'Brexit Special' train – Independent

While the one hour travel time might be too optimistic, any investment is to be welcomed in this and other infrastructure projects.

If a 114-mph average speed on the rails with advanced technology is "too optimistic"—in 2017 of all years—then the governing bodies on all of the British Isles need some replacing. (And not with more European ones.)

Wasn't quad-tracking of the Northern Line for some distance part of the proposed electrification anyway? And when did the electrification plan get cut back to Balbriggan, as I've seen on some sites?

Subpopulus

MGWR wrote: »

Wasn't quad-tracking of the Northern Line for some distance part of the proposed electrification anyway? And when did the electrification plan get cut back to Balbriggan, as I've seen on some sites?

I wasn't aware that there has ever been a genuine plan to electrify the Northern Line, certainly nothing that could have been 'cut back' to Balbriggan. I understood that when the Balbriggan electrification was announced this was simply an extension of the existing network.

I know that Irish Rail have expressed the ambition to electrify several of their lines, but that could only be done in conjunction with lifetime replacement of the rolling stock - so for example, Cork-Dublin would only really be feasible in the mid-2030s, when the rolling stock would due for upgrade or replacement.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Subpopulus wrote: »

What I'd like to know is if there's any workable alternative to four-tracking the line in the Dublin suburbs, because to me that seems like a practical impossibility due to the costs involved?

Would quad-tracking a section between say, Malahide and Howth Junction, to allow overtaking do anything to speed up intercity trains?

I would imagine that quad tracking connolly to howth junction would have a much bigger effect as the network is under the most pressure there though an overtaking loop or two (like at gcd) would definitely be a bonus.

ClovenHoof

Charlie Flanagan calls for

Stopped reading right there.

tabbey

If a new high speed line was being constructed, it would presumably take an alignment closer to the motorway route.

The existing railway was designed for early steam powered trains, taking as near level a route as possible. A modern high speed line would have straighter lines going up and down much steeper gradients, powered by electric TGV type vehicles. In any other modern European democracy, this would have been done years ago.

Regrettably, even when we had EU grants of 85% twenty years ago, Ireland did not bother to try such a scheme. What chance is there today, when grant aid is more moderate, and when the UK's northwestern frontier province, along with the rest of the UK, is about to secede from the EU? Two chances; slim and none, or more realistically, absolutely no chance!

XPS_Zero

tabbey wrote: »

If a new high speed line was being constructed, it would presumably take an alignment closer to the motorway route.

The existing railway was designed for early steam powered trains, taking as near level a route as possible. A modern high speed line would have straighter lines going up and down much steeper gradients, powered by electric TGV type vehicles. In any other modern European democracy, this would have been done years ago.

Regrettably, even when we had EU grants of 85% twenty years ago, Ireland did not bother to try such a scheme. What chance is there today, when grant aid is more moderate, and when the UK's northwestern frontier province, along with the rest of the UK, is about to secede from the EU? Two chances; slim and none, or more realistically, absolutely no chance!

A TGV style network built separate to the current line (with CIE prohibited from getting within 10,000 miles of it, SIPTU prohibited from getting within 1,000,000,000 miles of it owned by the state but managed by contractors) connecting say Cork, Dublin, Belfast and Galway is totally do-able, physically, and we could afford it borrowing wise if we stacked our priorities straight taking some from the current budget and the rest from borrowing.

One of the biggest advantages Ireland has, ironically having missed the industrial revolution, is that our economic landscape isn't scarred with dead closed factories that have fled to asia, coming with the massive baggage of 50 year old unemployed people who only ever worked in said factories and are now unskilled, caught between retirement and that past too close to the pension to retrain. We have instead plenty of high tech plants making computer chips and pharmacuticals, and office towers, and lots of new infrastructure built in the 80s, 90s and 00s as opposed to the likes of the US who have collapsing bridges they wont fix, built in the 50s.

We have a chance due to this ^ to build a modern 21st century economic landscape since we don't have old manufacturing rot to clean up.

We could build it ourselves.

All we need is political leaders with some vision, and an electorate that cares about the long term state of the country in the next 10/15 years more than getting an extra 10er on the pension or cutting 2% off USC.....


(cricket noises)

Del.Monte

XPS_Zero wrote: »

All we need is political leaders with some vision, and an electorate that cares about the long term state of the country in the next 10/15 years more than getting an extra 10er on the pension or cutting 2% off USC.....

So it can't be done.

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

A TGV style network built separate to the current line (with CIE prohibited from getting within 10,000 miles of it, SIPTU prohibited from getting within 1,000,000,000 miles of it owned by the state but managed by contractors)

can't be done, it would be against competition law to stop irish rail from bidding for the contract to run the line assuming you are contracting it out.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

connecting say Cork, Dublin, Belfast and Galway is totally do-able, physically, and we could afford it borrowing wise if we stacked our priorities straight taking some from the current budget and the rest from borrowing.

i agree and in an ideal world we would have it by now, or at least we would be on the way to getting it.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

One of the biggest advantages Ireland has, ironically having missed the industrial revolution, is that our economic landscape isn't scarred with dead closed factories that have fled to asia, coming with the massive baggage of 50 year old unemployed people who only ever worked in said factories and are now unskilled, caught between retirement and that past too close to the pension to retrain. We have instead plenty of high tech plants making computer chips and pharmacuticals, and office towers, and lots of new infrastructure built in the 80s, 90s and 00s as opposed to the likes of the US who have collapsing bridges they wont fix, built in the 50s.

We have a chance due to this ^ to build a modern 21st century economic landscape since we don't have old manufacturing rot to clean up.

We could build it ourselves.

All we need is political leaders with some vision, and an electorate that cares about the long term state of the country in the next 10/15 years more than getting an extra 10er on the pension or cutting 2% off USC.....

absolutely agree.

XPS_Zero

I know they have to be allowed bid for it

Nothing says we have to select them for it though.
We created the RPA to keep them the hell away from Luas and look how well the Luas worked out because of it.

Losty Dublin

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I know they have to be allowed bid for it

Nothing says we have to select them for it though.
We created the RPA to keep them the hell away from Luas and look how well the Luas worked out because of it.

The majority of the design work, route planning, technical specification setting and early work done on Luas was actually done by CIE.

Isambard

XPS_Zero wrote: »

A TGV style network built separate to the current line (with CIE prohibited from getting within 10,000 miles of it, SIPTU prohibited from getting within 1,000,000,000 miles of it owned by the state but managed by contractors) connecting say Cork, Dublin, Belfast and Galway is totally do-able, physically, and we could afford it borrowing wise if we stacked our priorities straight taking some from the current budget and the rest from borrowing.

One of the biggest advantages Ireland has, ironically having missed the industrial revolution, is that our economic landscape isn't scarred with dead closed factories that have fled to asia, coming with the massive baggage of 50 year old unemployed people who only ever worked in said factories and are now unskilled, caught between retirement and that past too close to the pension to retrain. We have instead plenty of high tech plants making computer chips and pharmacuticals, and office towers, and lots of new infrastructure built in the 80s, 90s and 00s as opposed to the likes of the US who have collapsing bridges they wont fix, built in the 50s.

We have a chance due to this ^ to build a modern 21st century economic landscape since we don't have old manufacturing rot to clean up.

We could build it ourselves.

All we need is political leaders with some vision, and an electorate that cares about the long term state of the country in the next 10/15 years more than getting an extra 10er on the pension or cutting 2% off USC.....


(cricket noises)

great post but all I have in my head now is the snick of leather on willow....