Titanium frame for bike tour: any advice?

Arequipa

Good evening & Happy Easter!

I am planning on building a road touring bike: the plan is to initially buy a frame & take things from there...

I hear great things about titanium... I am looking for an endurance frame/set up with eyelets for a rear rack and panniers...
And room for up to 28 mm tyres...
I have researched online a bit and see brands like:

-Planet X
- Kenesis
-Curve
- Lynskey...


Can any of you recommend a brand?
Are there any high-quality producers @ a relatively lower cost like Canyon/Rose?

I appreciate any feedback....



A

OleRodrigo

Genesis Equilibrium. Steel frames are available online at great prices. Build it up with a mid level groupset and decent wheels and you cant go wrong.There's clearance for 28 mm tyres and full mudguards with long drop brakes.

The Ti version of the Equilibrium is not that great to be honest, not worth the extra few quid, but still available if you really want ti.

I have the stainless version which looks like ti but is about 250 g heavier. Fantastic touring\ bad weather\ winter bike, have to say. There are still frames available online I think.

If you went with 725 steel instead you could build it up with custom wheels and a potenza/ ultegra groupset for about 1600. Feel free to PM me for any more info..

Arequipa

Thanks for the reply!
Steel is another option for sure...
I think I like titanium, because it is so robust & essentially unbreakable...
I will check out the frame you mention...

How would a steel frame compare to titanium?

A

Kaisr Sose

Van Nicholas is another to consider. Not many deals on Ti frames.

Genesis 725 steel is a good option.

Mercian Pro

Van Nicholas did a good value model called the Ventus but seem to have discontinued it this year. There may be a few frames or completed bikes available still on the web. The geometry is "endurance" but it won't take 28mm tyres afaik.

When I bought about a year ago, Genesis had discontinued their Ti Equilibrium so I'm surprised they are still available. Good luck with you hunt - I'm delighted with my Ventus having previously had steel, aluminium and carbon bikes.

Lumen

Arequipa wrote: »

I think I like titanium, because it is so robust & essentially unbreakable...

That is very much not true.

There are many, many cases of Ti frames failing. The crack starts at a weld and then moves on,.

My Ti frame failed at the headtube, and had never been used for anything but regular unloaded road riding. It was replaced for free, more or less.

This is another (audaxing) boardsie's 3rd frame failure.

With Ti it's all about the quality of the welds and the tubing. There can be defects in either that are not possible to detect.

Touring bikes are heavy. For the extra 0.5kg or whatever of a steel frame, I'd take the extra security.

blueballfc

Arequipa wrote: »

Good evening & Happy Easter!

I am planning on building a road touring bike: the plan is to initially buy a frame & take things from there...

I hear great things about titanium... I am looking for an endurance frame/set up with eyelets for a rear rack and panniers...
And room for up to 28 mm tyres...
I have researched online a bit and see brands like:

-Planet X
- Kenesis
-Curve
- Lynskey...


Can any of you recommend a brand?
Are there any high-quality producers @ a relatively lower cost like Canyon/Rose?

I appreciate any feedback....



A

Currently doing the same thing I am going to go with steel. It all depends on your budget tbh and how long you are prepared to weight. My budget is not unlimited but really looking for a quality frame first and foremost. I am. About to pull th trigger on this https://masoncycles.cc/shop/categories/frames the resolution frame 28 tires with full mudagurds, group set to is something I will need more time and money before I make the move.

Alanbt

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Van Nicholas did a good value model called the Ventus but seem to have discontinued it this year. There may be a few frames or completed bikes available still on the web. The geometry is "endurance" but it won't take 28mm tyres afaik.

When I bought about a year ago, Genesis had discontinued their Ti Equilibrium so I'm surprised they are still available. Good luck with you hunt - I'm delighted with my Ventus having previously had steel, aluminium and carbon bikes.

I have the Ventus and it won't take tyres above 25mm. No mudguard eyelets either.
It is a nice frame though

Arequipa

Hi! Thank you for your replies..
that is interesting about Ti frames... didn't realise they can fail so much...

The steel frame is definitely another option...
There is a company called 'Curve Cycling' down in Oz... I was following the Indian Pacific race and a few riders used their ti frames... I think they're lovely bikes...

Any other good steel frame options in a touring spec?

Thanks again!

Arequipa

Here are curve bikes...

They do a steel and titanium bike called 'Belgie Spirit'...

https://www.curvecycling.com.au

cunavalos

If you are looking for Ti and not looking for a major brand have a look at SpaCycles http://spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p0/Bikes/Touring-Audax-and-Sportive
They have the own brand titanium and steel frames as well as selling Sabbath, Surly and Ridgeback frames.

They are a very well known and reputable shop within the UK audax and touring community

From my own experience i have a titanium Merlin Audax/Light Touring bike which a find very comfortable and have had no problems (7+ years old) but Merlin were known as one of the leaders in titanium frame building

Kaisr Sose

Good call on Spa Cycles. He does a Ti frame (his own brand) plus some steel. Don't forget Surly – if not mentioned before.

If you have a big budget, try MasonCycles, who have a highly rated steel frame/full bike option. Not the cheapest though.

Arequipa

Thank you for the recommendations!
I imagine in the U.K., there are lots of smaller companies producing great frames for donkeys years!

I was watching the Indi Pacific race and Sarah Hammond, Jesse Carlson and a few others rode the Curve Bikes; I think they are fab looking;

Titanium/ steel frame
Full Ultegra chainset
Carbon wheels with robust tyres for road/ gravel and some off-road..

Then the bikes are decked in Apidura frame bags and are ready to cross the Nullabar!

I must look up Mike Hall's bike for the Indi PAC... it was so sad that he died over there...

Arequipa

The legend, Mike Hall's steed:


http://road.cc/content/tech-news/219030-bike-check-mike-halls-kinesis-gf-ti-ready-5300km-india-pacific-wheel-race

guym

I have an Enigma Etape, find it lovely to ride, bought frame heavily discounted from main website http://www.enigmabikes.com/ although site appears to be having an update and no bikes up at the moment. http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/ would also be worth a look.

dancrowley

Arequipa wrote: »

Thank you for the recommendations!
I imagine in the U.K., there are lots of smaller companies producing great frames for donkeys years!

I was watching the Indi Pacific race and Sarah Hammond, Jesse Carlson and a few others rode the Curve Bikes; I think they are fab looking;

Titanium/ steel frame
Full Ultegra chainset
Carbon wheels with robust tyres for road/ gravel and some off-road..

Then the bikes are decked in Apidura frame bags and are ready to cross the Nullabar!

I must look up Mike Hall's bike for the Indi PAC... it was so sad that he died over there...

I've a Curve Belgie and am loving it. I got the frameset and wheels from Curve and decked it out with the groupset from a frame I recently damaged. There are photos of it on my Instagram; I'm too lazy to upload photos to image-sharing sites, these days.
I don't use it for touring, just regular road riding. Yes, it's heavier than the carbon frame it replaced (8.5kg v 7kg) but I don't care; it is comfier, looks awesome and just wants to take a good walloping.

OleRodrigo

There is light touring, loaded touring ( camping etc ) and more recently, bike packing. They all have different features, although light touring and bike packing are quite similar.

I wouldn't recommend the Equilibrium for loaded touring. I comfortably got about 9 kilos on the rear rack but wouldn't fancy anymore than 10.

The Van Nicholas Yukon is by many accounts great for light touring. Looks amazing as well.

Once you go to 28mm tyres with fitted mudguards, you need to change the brake caliper types, so you would have to bear that in mind. The frame design starts to change at that point too.

Mudguards are essential for touring. You could get a disc brake model which would allow for mudguards without wider stays, but disc brakes have their own disadvantages as well as being largely unnecessary.

If I had the cash I'd go with the VN Yukon with a Potenza groupset, Archetype wheels and a SON delux dynamo hub, with VN finishing kit. Far from cheap but awesome.

Seaswimmer

I am in the process of ordering a Mercian frame in Reynolds 725 oversize tubing for a bit of light touring and general use. Pricey but always an ambition of mine to own one.

I have paid the deposit but there is a 10 month waiting list which gives me time to buy the bits for it.

Mercian Pro

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I am in the process of ordering a Mercian frame in Reynolds 725 oversize tubing for a bit of light touring and general use.

Great to see Mercian mentioned here (and still in business). Still miss my Mercian Pro even if it was totally unsuited to the type of riding I subjected it to.

Got my Van Nicolas from Fat Birds and found them really good to deal with. Changing some of the components was no problem unlike a certain high-end bike shop in south Dublin!

Arequipa

Thank you for the replies!
I am touring at the mo with a Canyon Endurace AL: it works quite well with rear panniers & a frame bag...

As I get older I feel less enamoured with camping.. so I would tour lighter and try and stay in a Bnb or hotel at night...

I didn't realise Curve Bikes ship over here?

A

benneca1

OleRodrigo wrote: »

There is light touring, loaded touring ( camping etc ) and more recently, bike packing. They all have different features, although light touring and bike packing are quite similar.

I wouldn't recommend the Equilibrium for loaded touring. I comfortably got about 9 kilos on the rear rack but wouldn't fancy anymore than 10.

The Van Nicholas Yukon is by many accounts great for light touring. Looks amazing as well.

Once you go to 28mm tyres with fitted mudguards, you need to change the brake caliper types, so you would have to bear that in mind. The frame design starts to change at that point too.

Mudguards are essential for touring. You could get a disc brake model which would allow for mudguards without wider stays, but disc brakes have their own disadvantages as well as being largely unnecessary.

If I had the cash I'd go with the VN Yukon with a Potenza groupset, Archetype wheels and a SON delux dynamo hub, with VN finishing kit. Far from cheap but awesome.

I agree with Ole I had a Yukon more or less as described but with utregra. Really loved the bike and was happy to sell it on to a mate after a few years. Changed it for an enigma etape for a few reasons all small.The main one was that there are separate eyelets for a rack so whipping it off was easier as didn't have to re adjust the mudguards. Also liked the mirror polished logos. Helped also that collapse of sterling dropped the price by 25 % last summer.

It is a known fact that it is hard to weld titanium and most reputable companies have as near as is possible perfected the technique and give a lifetime guarantee. My brother in law bought an Airborne titanium bike years ago. A welds failed after about 5 years and Van Nicholas who took over the company honoured the warranty.

As a touring bike I would look seriously at the Yukon or the Etape and if your budget stretches to it I second the recommendation about the wheels. Remember when touring you will be loaded a bit so is nice to have well made wheels a broken spoke will ruin your trip if you are travelling loaded and don't have a spoke

dancrowley

Arequipa wrote: »

Thank you for the replies!
I am touring at the mo with a Canyon Endurace AL: it works quite well with rear panniers & a frame bag...

As I get older I feel less enamoured with camping.. so I would tour lighter and try and stay in a Bnb or hotel at night...

I didn't realise Curve Bikes ship over here?

A

I didn't ship my bike to Ireland. I'm based in Saudi Arabia. Get in touch with the lads at Curve and they'll sort you out, I'm sure.

brownian

benneca1 wrote: »

I agree with Ole I had a Yukon more or less as described but with utregra. Really loved the bike and was happy to sell it on to a mate after a few years. Changed it for an enigma etape for a few reasons all small.The main one was that there are separate eyelets for a rack so whipping it off was easier as didn't have to re adjust the mudguards. Also liked the mirror polished logos. Helped also that collapse of sterling dropped the price by 25 % last summer.

It is a known fact that it is hard to weld titanium and most reputable companies have as near as is possible perfected the technique and give a lifetime guarantee. My brother in law bought an Airborne titanium bike years ago. A welds failed after about 5 years and Van Nicholas who took over the company honoured the warranty.

As a touring bike I would look seriously at the Yukon or the Etape and if your budget stretches to it I second the recommendation about the wheels. Remember when touring you will be loaded a bit so is nice to have well made wheels a broken spoke will ruin your trip if you are travelling loaded and don't have a spoke

I use my Van Nic Yukon for 'heavy' touring - front and rear racks, plus a handlebar bag. Works just fine. I had to fit a steel fork, and then added Tubus clamps on the fork, for their Tara low rider rack, but all the rest was very straightforward. Toured with it several times, with full camping gear etc, and no issues. All it's not great for is big fat tyres, but the usual European crushed-gravel cycle track surface is grand. I don't have mudguards, but a bag on the back catches a lot of the crud 8-)

brownian

Spa cycles do indeed have some great offers at the mo.

OleRodrigo

Yeah great feedback on the spa cycles audax models.

Arequipa

If i attach a rack & rear pannier bags...

Would titanium or steel carry weight better?

OleRodrigo

I'd prefer steel ( aside from the Yukon). But it must be said that the problem with ti joints has improved a lot in recent years. I think the choice between either or is largely subjective. The design of the frame, rather than material, has more to do with what type of load it will carry. If its for light touring than this wont be much of a problem.

I disagree with Brownian on mudguards. Getting wet and cold sucks, especially when you still have hours to go to the next stop. Although panniers/ saddle bag protect the rear, your feet will still get wet from the front wheel splash. Mudguards give you the option of riding a long day in comfort, in different climates at different times of the year. Together with a hub dynamo they add a lot of versatility.

For credit card/ light touring I'd aim for to bring little as possible. I managed 5 kilos for 10 days light touring and that wasn't being ruthless with packing. On the IndyPac, Kristof Allegaert had about 3 kilos for the entire ride.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/o4a-QEVUsXc/hqdefault.jpg

Seaswimmer

Slightly off topic but has anybody used a road bike with a trailer to tour. Seems to me like you could use this setup to undertake a camping type tour without the need for a dedicated tourer and panniers ect. I am assuming you would stay on paved roads.

OleRodrigo

Not personally Seaswimmer, but I think one or two other guys might have - tomasrojo or Alek maybe.

smacl

Weepsie wrote: »

I imagine the'd deliver here but not sure.

I range enquiring about their ti Audax a couple of years back and they had no problems delivering to Ireland. For a tourer I'd also be throwing a hub dynamo wheel into the build.

Arequipa

That is incredible ... Kristof Allegaert carry only 3kg...
But those ultra endurance guys & gals sleep in a tiny bivy under bus stops, by roadsides.... Whereever they can!

I think Jesse Carlsson rode a steel Curve bike on the Indi Pac...


It is interesting about Titanium... A beautiful finish, no rust, but very difficult to work the metal....
And then Lumen mentioned how the welds have been know to crack/fail...

Whereas Steel is viewed as a nearly outdated material...
But it is easier to work, mend & extremely strong & much lighter than the frames of my Dad & Grandads time.....

I am thinking a steel bike with a brushed finish akin to Ti would be very nice!


A

velo.2010

I also have a love for titanium.

The fact that I have a top tube's worth of it in my right leg may have something to do with that!

Arequipa

Weepsie! Re the dynamo hub...

1) say a solid 100-130km rolling day... how much of a charge would the hub generate for a standard smartphone, Garmin & lights?

2) can you tell me what spokes & hub did you use?



Velo2010... what happened your leg?


A

velo.2010

Arequipa wrote: »

Velo2010... what happened your leg?


A

Ah, I broke it a few years ago.

Arequipa

Ah okay!

brownian

OleRodrigo wrote: »

I'd prefer steel ( aside from the Yukon). But it must be said that the problem with ti joints has improved a lot in recent years. I think the choice between either or is largely subjective. The design of the frame, rather than material, has more to do with what type of load it will carry. If its for light touring than this wont be much of a problem.

I disagree with Brownian on mudguards. Getting wet and cold sucks, especially when you still have hours to go to the next stop. Although panniers/ saddle bag protect the rear, your feet will still get wet from the front wheel splash. Mudguards give you the option of riding a long day in comfort, in different climates at different times of the year. Together with a hub dynamo they add a lot of versatility.

For credit card/ light touring I'd aim for to bring little as possible. I managed 5 kilos for 10 days light touring and that wasn't being ruthless with packing. On the IndyPac, Kristof Allegaert had about 3 kilos for the entire ride.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/o4a-QEVUsXc/hqdefault.jpg

I agree that mudguards do lead to a happier body and bike. I was just saying that I don't use them, and that the bags catch a lot of the muck...but guards would be better.

On a week-long tour (staying in B&Bs) I aim for 2.5/3 kg, in an alpkit dry bag that attaches to the back of my B17 with two nylon-webbing straps. A bit of clothes washing each day, wring out in a towel...away you go.