Spent convictions act and garda vetting

samwich27

Hi guys

Ten years ago I received the benefit of the probation act 1(1) and had to pay a €5000 fine for assault causing harm (drunken nightclub scuffle, one punch thrown!). Had never been in trouble before and never since. According to the new Act, as more than seven years have passed, should my record now be clean?

Also, As the probation act is not a conviction, I have no convictions to my name and have receive a police cert in the past which said as much, however, the offence still shows up on garda vetting forms. I emailed the vetting bureau asking why and was told that the fine component of the sentence is considered a conviction. Does this mean the vetting bureau have their own definitions as to what constitutes a conviction separate from the state law in general?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

GM228

samwich27 wrote: »

Hi guys

Ten years ago I received the benefit of the probation act 1(1) and had to pay a €5000 fine for assault causing harm (drunken nightclub scuffle, one punch thrown!). Had never been in trouble before and never since. According to the new Act, as more than seven years have passed, should my record now be clean?

Also, As the probation act is not a conviction, I have no convictions to my name and have receive a police cert in the past which said as much, however, the offence still shows up on garda vetting forms. I emailed the vetting bureau asking why and was told that the fine component of the sentence is considered a conviction. Does this mean the vetting bureau have their own definitions as to what constitutes a conviction separate from the state law in general?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

You are correct that the application of S1(1) of the Probation of Offenders Act 1907 means there is no conviction.

However, was the €5000 "fine" a compensation order under the provisions of S6 of the Criminal Justice Act 1993 (not to be confused with the actual charge under S3 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997)?


If so I'll refer you to S6(12)(b) of the 1993 Act:-

references to conviction of a person include references to dealing with a person under section 1 (1) of the Probation of Offenders Act, 1907

With regards to Garda vetting, it should be noted that the provisions of the Criminal Justice (Spent Convictions and Certain Disclosures) Act 2016 does not apply to Garda vetting.

boardsuser1

Non fatal offences against the person act are excluded from the vetting side of things, they are disclosed in all circumstances.

For example,

I received the probation act for a section 2 assault, i was further convicted of that offence twice.

When i am vetted 3 assaults show up.

Your offence is what is called section 3 assault.

Did you apply for a disclosure of what the Garda Central Vetting unit Hold on you?

It costs €6.35.

Just to clarify, i was convicted of offences of a lesser nature (road traffic) and these no longer appear when i am vetted.

In the past my solicitor confirmed the same as what you have said, FINE = CONVICTION.

GM228

KC161 wrote: »

Non fatal offences against the person act are excluded from the vetting side of things, they are disclosed in all circumstances.

You are incorrect, the exclusion only applies to a conviction (or "specified information") under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997.

Offences dealth with under S(1) of the Probation of Offenders Act 1907 (which are not convictions - but potentially "specified information" i.e an allegation of causing harm) are not always disclosed except in cases where the circumstances of the alleged offence gives rise to a bona fide concern that the person concerned may harm a child or vulnerable person. The administrative filter allows Gardaí to decide if the specified information gives rise to the bona fide concern and then apply it to the vetting result.

Offences dealth with under S1(2) of the 1907 Act (which are convictions) are always disclosed.

boardsuser1

GM228 wrote: »

You are incorrect, the exclusion only applies to a conviction (or "specified information") under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997.

Offences dealth with under S(1) of the Probation of Offenders Act 1907 (which are not convictions - but potentially "specified information" i.e an allegation of causing harm) are not always disclosed except in cases where the circumstances of the alleged offence gives rise to a bona fide concern that the person concerned may harm a child or vulnerable person. The administrative filter allows Gardaí to decide if the specified information gives rise to the bona fide concern and then apply it to the vetting result.

Offences dealth with under S1(2) of the 1907 Act (which are convictions) are always disclosed.

I'd say a section 3 assault would be a bona fide concern if a section 2 assault is.

In the cases of children/vulnerable people that is.

samwich27

Thanks a lot for the responses. The situation is I'm off to England to train as a teacher and according to the British Disclosure and Barring service I need an Irish police certificate. The garda I talked to said he wasn't sure if I could get one for England but he'd leave my application upstairs for consideration etc. so waiting on that atm

I also recently received a data access request form back and, having specified I wanted a copy of my 'criminal record', I assumed I'd receive a form to say I didn't have a record (as I've no convictions). However, I just got one page showing the particulars of when and why I went to court and the outcome. So your criminal record includes non convictions too? I just need to somehow show England that I have no convictions to my name. These things are never easy!

PREG1967

samwich27 wrote: »

Thanks a lot for the responses. The situation is I'm off to England to train as a teacher and according to the British Disclosure and Barring service I need an Irish police certificate. The garda I talked to said he wasn't sure if I could get one for England but he'd leave my application upstairs for consideration etc. so waiting on that atm

I also recently received a data access request form back and, having specified I wanted a copy of my 'criminal record', I assumed I'd receive a form to say I didn't have a record (as I've no convictions). However, I just got one page showing the particulars of when and why I went to court and the outcome. So your criminal record includes non convictions too? I just need to somehow show England that I have no convictions to my name. These things are never easy!

thats strange i got a clean/blank police clearance from the garda and there was no mention of court attendances though i had been to court in the past, is your format the new format?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

PREG1967

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

confusing thread, why is the OP requesting a DP if the job only needs a PC

samwich27

To clear up any confusion.....from reading about police certs on the garda website they state that they are issued for consular reasons like visas and travel abroad but not for employment or anything else. I need one for a work based route to a teacher qualification. I sent away for the DP to preempt the gardai not giving me the PC. I thought I could use the DP as proof of no convictions but obviously not! Anyway, the gards may yet give me the PC. I hope so!