Newbie New Build for Gaming

johnp23

Hi All Long time lurker first time poster in this forum. Looking at getting my first proper gaming rig currently using an XPS 13 yes laugh away . Games i play are battlefield mostly but looking to future proof for anything that may come out in the next 3 years

1. What is your budget? [1000-1200]

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? [gaming/general use]

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [Yes]

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? [Nope]

5. Do you need a monitor? [Yes]

5a. If yes, what size do you need. Dont know

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? [Nope]

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? No

8. How can you pay? [Visa/Paypal]

9. When are you purchasing? [ASAP]

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? Dublin

minitrue

If you've been lurking a while you will know there are always lots of options, especially once you aren't on a very low budget! Here's my idea:

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor (305.09 @ Mindfactory)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (81.50 @ Mindfactory)
Memory: G.Skill NT Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (125.42 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Crucial MX300 525GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (149.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon RX 480 4GB NITRO D5 OC Video Card (230.94 @ Mindfactory)
Case: Thermaltake Core V21 MicroATX Mini Tower Case (62.02 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: Corsair CSM 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (81.95 @ Mindfactory)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit (109.95 @ Mindfactory)
Monitor: AOC G2260VWQ6 21.5" 1920x1080 75Hz Monitor (129.77 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €1260 delivered give or take a few euro so a bit over budget :-/

You can drop the Windows 10 out, use it unactivated and you're down to about 1150 and I'd do that before I'd drop the specs. If you get the watermark on your desktop telling you it's unactivated at some point AND you care then you can pay for it and activate it (try and keep it off the network until the install is really finished, that might be helping avoid it even appearing). If you really want activated windows from the outset I'd probably pull the money out of the case and psu but dropping to 8GB ram would also be an option.

I've gone with a 75HZ freesync 1080p monitor and a quick 4GB Radeon 480, I don't really see you sanely getting any better then that sort of monitor without making big compromises elsewhere!

I've just gone with a 525GB ssd and no hd. That's plenty for a decent handful of big games and easy to add more secondary drives later IF you wanted (or a fast m.2 pci-e SSD if/when their prices become sane). The ram is maybe 5 more then the cheapest but a tiny smidge quicker (CL15 instead of CL16) so worth it to me.

The case is a little on the pricey side but it's very flexible, easy to pick something else to suit your taste. I picked that as it breathes well which makes cooling a no brainer (just works) though the downside of that is it doesn't dampen the sound. The PSU could also be cheaper but it's efficient with plenty of power and semi-modular so less hassle trying to hide a big bunch of cables.

i7, 16GB ram, all ssd, radeon 480 and 75Hz freesync should be good for years and the case+psu are likely to be good for a new build if you wanted. Whenever some games do start struggling with it you'll probably only have to upgrade the graphics card to get back to ample power.

That should give you something decent to compare any other options with. One of the gpu experts might chip in with a better suggestion there, that would be the part I'd be worst at picking!

Alpha8

Why not go with with the Ryzen 1700/1700x?

minitrue

Why go with a Ryzen for gaming? The 1700 (let alone x) costs more and you have the extra cost of memory and the fun finding some memory/board combo which works and is it even any better?

RossieMan

A 4gb 480 in that budget? Surely that's just not right? Go for 8gb of ram for now and bump it up on the GPU.

CPU / GPU combo is completely unbalanced on your build.

BloodBath

An alternative Ryzen system. This is using the cheapest samsung b-die memory I could find so you should be able to get it to 3200Mhz. The BIOS may need updating to achieve this though. I'm not 100% on the parts as I'm in a similar boat trying to decide what to get.

Prices got using geizhals.de for a discount. Get the monitor and case from amazon.co.uk.

AMD Ryzen 5 1600 - 230.07
Gigabyte GA-AB350-Gaming 3 - 115.78
16GB G.Skill Trident Z DDR4-3200 DIMM CL15 - 168.10
8GB PowerColor Radeon RX 480 Red Devil - 249.85
525GB Crucial MX300 2.5" - 143.89
550 Watt Corsair CS Series CS550M Modular 80+ Gold - 73.96
Delivery - 30

Total 1018.32

Add a case and monitor and you should be able to keep it under 1200.

minitrue

RossieMan wrote: »

A 4gb 480 in that budget? Surely that's just not right? Go for 8gb of ram for now and bump it up on the GPU.

CPU / GPU combo is completely unbalanced on your build.

I'm not really going to argue too much, 8GB doesn't strike me as hugely worthwhile at 1080p so picked a fast 480 4gb. You could drop to 8GB ram and bump it to comparable 8GB rx480 (the one in the Ryzen build is 8% slower). Getting up to a 1070 is going to take quite a bit more then just dropping to 8GB (and throws out freesync) and the consensus is AMD wins on dx12 and longevity in general so with the original request I wouldn't pick a 1060.

As for the unbalanced bit, I'm not so sure and easy to upgrade the gpu but usually more painful to do a cpu upgrade so that's the way I'd call it. That Ryzen R5 build (if the board/ram combo is good) shows about what you are looking at with the AMD option, I'd take the i7 and certainly feel a lot more comfortable recommending it to a "newbie" buying asap.

johnp23

Really appreciate all the feedback.


Some good options given.From a longevity perspective what is the best option to go with. I know every brand has there followers but for me im just looking for a build that will last me 3-4 years and still be able to play BF and similar games and good FPS. After that if i can use some of my existing kit to upgrade great. One thing i may have forgotten to mention is i will probably try to connect the desktop via CAT to the modem as there is alot connected to the wifi and has caused me problems before.

John

TerrorFirmer

For a purely gaming system the 7700 is superior and most certainly, as minitrue pointed out, a much safer and uncomplicated bet for a new builder.

However at 1080p it's not likely to make much difference as the average frames would be far north of 60fps and similar, though the i7 has very noticeably better minimum frames in some very CPU heavy titles.

This may change over the lifespan you're taking about but for now my money would 100% be on the i7 for a gaming system.

Also consider the Ryzen platform is not really any cheaper than the i7 when you factor in the expensive motherboard and ram.

I agree that you should go for the 8GB RX480 for the sake of a few euro considering you'll likely have it for a few years - game tests do show a difference between 4 and 8GB vram in a few of the latest games even at 1080p so consider how that will manifest over the next couple of years.

The only thing I'm playing at the moment is BF1 and that does run at 1080p ultra at a rock solid 60fps with an i7-6700 with a 4GB R9 290 (older, similar card to 4GB RX480 from 2013). Even with a skylake i5-6500 it can't maintain 60fps and often dips to 45-50fps.

Serephucus

Just to add my thoughts to the already full pot:

I'd go with Bloodbath's build here. Ryzen might be slightly more complicated now, but from a longevity standpoint, I'd guess it'll far better than the Intel build.

That's before you think about socket compatibility. If you're looking to upgrade your CPU down the line, the only option you've got is a 7700K, and that's not going to give you much extra. With Ryzen (at least in theory), you're good for two more generations, which could be quite a large jump, given this is a first-gen product we're talking about here.

johnp23

@Serephucus . What do you mean by complicated . I will be building this myself i hope.

So far this is what im looking at


AMD Ryzen 5 1600 - 230.07
Gigabyte GA-AB350-Gaming 3 - 115.78
16GB G.Skill Trident Z DDR4-3200 DIMM CL15 - 168.10
8GB PowerColor Radeon RX 480 Red Devil - 249.85
525GB Crucial MX300 2.5" - 143.89
550 Watt Corsair CS Series CS550M Modular 80+ Gold - 73.96
AOC G2260VWQ6 24" 1920x1080 75Hz Monitor

What case would you recommend . Do i need a specific one for the above build or will any do. I would want something that maybe is see through on one side but completely plain over the rest of the case.

I do have a question or two on the above build and please forgive me if they come across as newbie. I have no idea of the hardware on computers.

1. Do i need a separate WIFI & Ethernet board
2. Does the card above have extra Hard drive slots for another SSD if need be.
3. Should i try this as my first build or get someone to build it for me with my general lack of experience

Serephucus

I just meant in terms of how new Ryzen is. It might mean you have to update your BIOS a couple of times over the first few months, or maybe have to set some RAM settings manually. It's nothing too mad to be worried about, to be honest.

That build looks pretty nice, though I'm not familiar with that monitor.

I really like Fractal Design's Define C. It's plain all over, but has a really nice layout internally, and there's a windowed version too.

1. If you want WiFi, yes. The board has an ethernet port on it that you can plug a cable into for internet access.
2. Loads. The board has space for six hard drives (and an M.2 drive) natively, and it's very easy to add more ports in the future with an add-in card.
3. Build it. Lots of videos online to help you, and lots of people here too.

TerrorFirmer

I would again advise a re-think on Ryzen when it's a dedicated gaming PC.

Right now, the i7-7700 easily beats it in games, would not be any more expensive than the Ryzen setup (possibly even cheaper depending on what hardware you pick) and there are no potential associated complications (not wishing to understate this either, it's not a major issue but it is there).

I absolutely fully stand behind Ryzen from a productivity POV, or for someone who's mixing work with gaming, but when your Ryzen setup costs the same as an i7 setup and hinges on 'but in a few years it should start to shine' I can't see the draw.

It would be a different story if Ryzen was significantly cheaper but in this instance it's not. Right here and now, the 1600 is a crystal clear second fiddle to the i7-7700 in games.

The i7 also has significantly increased minimum frames and this is genuinely going to make a difference on a monitor with a 75hz refresh.

Your choice but I think a few people here are letting their desire for AMD to get back into the fight actually somewhat cloud their judgement. It's not great advise to advise people on components based on a few years down the line and what may or may not manifest.

That same argument was used to promote AMD's FX line about 5 years ago and it simply never happened. Even now, only a small fraction of games are even starting to move definitively towards full quad core utilization - Battlefield 1 and Fallout 4 spring to mind, though even at that both games perform better on 4 core/8 thread i7 than any of the Ryzen processors, even the flagship 8 core 16 thread model.

It's not to say that Ryzen is bad for gaming. It certainly makes the i3 totally redundant, and at this point I'd certainly personally take a Ryzen CPU over say, an i5.

But to argue that a 1600 is a better buy than an i7 from a purely gaming POV is not really based on anything other than speculation - and it certainly doesn't reflect the clear dominant position of the i7 in games at it stands.

Go with the i7-7700 and you will get significantly better framerates in every game, some more than others and some significantly so. That is the fact of it, not an opinion.

Serephucus

A question that should be put to the OP as it was never actually stated: Do you think you'll be doing much with this PC other than gaming in the next couple of years?

And Terror (I get the feeling you're talking mostly to me in this instance), I agree with you: Here and now, looking only at games, Intel performs better than Ryzen at the same price, in pretty much all cases, sometimes by a lot.

That said, I never said it didn't. I just said that it was my opinion that games would take advantage of more cores in the next couple of years.

And yes, I know we've all heard that same thing for years, and it mostly hasn't happened outside of a few relatively isolated games. Consider though that PC gaming is an extremely small segment in overall PC sales. In everything else, Ryzen matches or beats Intel's comparable offerings. Now remember that we've had nothing but Intel and quad cores for five years, and you can guess why an 8-core chip isn't doing as well as expected.

With Ryzen being as cost effective as it is though, I see it being pretty readily adopted by developers. Factoring in both consoles being eight-core design chips, and I don't think it's unreasonable to say that games will be taking advantage of this compute power.

johnp23

Thanks guys didn't expect my question to be so contentious. For me I do a bit of coding at home with SQL . Going to try get into Python or R in the near future but other than that it will be a complete gaming rig for battlefield type games and 99% of the time that's online very rare I play a campaign .

The monitor I picked is just a bigger one than the one that I was recommended in the thread

zbluebirdz

johnp23 wrote: »

@Serephucus . What do you mean by complicated . I will be building this myself i hope.

So far this is what im looking at

....
AOC G2260VWQ6 24" 1920x1080 75Hz Monitor
....

G2260VWQ6 is 21.5". G2460VQ6 is 24"

BloodBath

minitrue wrote: »

I'm not really going to argue too much, 8GB doesn't strike me as hugely worthwhile at 1080p so picked a fast 480 4gb. You could drop to 8GB ram and bump it to comparable 8GB rx480 (the one in the Ryzen build is 8% slower). Getting up to a 1070 is going to take quite a bit more then just dropping to 8GB (and throws out freesync) and the consensus is AMD wins on dx12 and longevity in general so with the original request I wouldn't pick a 1060.

He has the budget for the 8GB version so why not go for it. 8GB of Vram will be useful regardless of resolution. Games are and will be using more and more Vram. The easiest way to improve game graphics is through graphics memory atm rather than actual horsepower and resolution makes little difference. It's the resolution of your textures, shadows, reflections and the amount of AA you use that really impacts gpu memory.

It is more complicated than that though as higher resolution textures will only be shown on higher res displays at certain distances otherwise they will mip down to a lower resolution. All that aside the 8gb version is only €20 more so I'd go for it.

How is the one in the Ryzen build 8% slower? They have the same clock speeds.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I would again advise a re-think on Ryzen when it's a dedicated gaming PC.

Right now, the i7-7700 easily beats it in games, would not be any more expensive than the Ryzen setup (possibly even cheaper depending on what hardware you pick) and there are no potential associated complications (not wishing to understate this either, it's not a major issue but it is there).

I absolutely fully stand behind Ryzen from a productivity POV, or for someone who's mixing work with gaming, but when your Ryzen setup costs the same as an i7 setup and hinges on 'but in a few years it should start to shine' I can't see the draw.

It would be a different story if Ryzen was significantly cheaper but in this instance it's not. Right here and now, the 1600 is a crystal clear second fiddle to the i7-7700 in games.

The i7 also has significantly increased minimum frames and this is genuinely going to make a difference on a monitor with a 75hz refresh.

Your choice but I think a few people here are letting their desire for AMD to get back into the fight actually somewhat cloud their judgement. It's not great advise to advise people on components based on a few years down the line and what may or may not manifest.

That same argument was used to promote AMD's FX line about 5 years ago and it simply never happened. Even now, only a small fraction of games are even starting to move definitively towards full quad core utilization - Battlefield 1 and Fallout 4 spring to mind, though even at that both games perform better on 4 core/8 thread i7 than any of the Ryzen processors, even the flagship 8 core 16 thread model.

It's not to say that Ryzen is bad for gaming. It certainly makes the i3 totally redundant, and at this point I'd certainly personally take a Ryzen CPU over say, an i5.

But to argue that a 1600 is a better buy than an i7 from a purely gaming POV is not really based on anything other than speculation - and it certainly doesn't reflect the clear dominant position of the i7 in games at it stands.

Go with the i7-7700 and you will get significantly better framerates in every game, some more than others and some significantly so. That is the fact of it, not an opinion.

Good points and I tend to agree. For a pure gaming system without additional overclocking headaches the 7700 makes more sense and I'd advise the op to go for that. I just wanted to put a Ryzen build together to see how it stacks up.

There are cases where the Ryzen has better gaming frame rate mins than the 7700 though but in general the 7700 performs better.

johnp23

So are we saying that the original i7 build would be the best bet for . Is there any tweaks I should make or just order like it is ?

minitrue

BloodBath wrote: »

How is the one in the Ryzen build 8% slower? They have the same clock speeds.

Bah I think I got confused/misled there somewhere, I thought we were looking at (roughly) a 1.2GHz Vs 1.1GHz clock difference, so yeah that's fine and not the jump I thought it was to keep the extra speed at get 8GB also :-D

johnp23 wrote: »

So are we saying that the original i7 build would be the best bet for . Is there any tweaks I should make or just order like it is ?

I'd take TerrorFirmers word on things over mine (and most others here) when it comes to gaming anyway, so yes, stick with the i7 build but take the [url="https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/8GB-PowerColor-Radeon-RX-480-Red-Devil-Aktiv-PCIe-3-0-x16--Retail-_1114628.html]8GB rx480 as suggested by BloodBath[/url] instead!

Apart from that change, the case and monitor are easy to pick alternatives for as you wish.

As I said I picked that monitor as it isn't much little more then the cheapest sane stuff and gives you FreeSync which helps on the future proofing and 75Hz which is a nice little improvement over the normal 60Hz. If you you can fit the 24" version into your budget and fancy it go ahead.

As for the case it's a bit of whatever you fancy and what your budget allows. Your description of your desires from the case (plain + window) makes it sound more like the Fractal Design Define C is the sort of thing you would like but it's a chunk more expensive, something like a Thermaltake Versa H15 or Corsair Carbide Series 88R are roughly 40-50 less and might be plain enough for you? Especially when you aren't overclocking cases are a lot about taste really so feel free to have a look around and run anything you like the look of past the crowd or anything mentioned so far should be safe.

johnp23

Really appreciate all the feedback from everyone

Based on what you have all said im going to go with the following

CPU:Intel Core i7-7700 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor (305.09 @ Mindfactory)
MotherBoard:Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (81.50 @ Mindfactory)
Memory:G.Skill NT Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory
Storage: Crucial MX300 525GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Video Card:8GB PowerColor Radeon RX 480 Red Devil
PSU: Corsair CSM 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply
Monitor:AOC 24"
System:Windows 10
Case:Corsair CC-9011105-WW Carbide Series 270R Windowed Mid-Tower ATX/Micro ATX Performance Computer Case - Black

Inviere

Looks like a solid build