Emigrating & leaving property empty. How best to secure property?

ParkRunner

I'll be leaving the country in a few weeks on a 2 year contract and the plan is to leave my house empty. Any tips on how best to secure the property from damage - vandalism or natural? It's a 3 bed terraced house in an estate in Dublin.

I had tenants before when I was away for three years, but it isn't worth the hassle and cost of renting out again. Boarding up the property seems a bit extreme so was wondering what people generally do to secure an empty property when leaving for a long period

Mr McBoatface

ParkRunner wrote: »

I'll be leaving the country in a few weeks on a 2 year contract and the plan is to leave my house empty. Any tips on how best to secure the property from damage - vandalism or natural? It's a 3 bed terraced house in an estate in Dublin.

I had tenants before when I was away for three years, but it isn't worth the hassle and cost of renting out again. Boarding up the property seems a bit extreme so was wondering what people generally do to secure an empty property when leaving for a long period

Get a friend or family member move in on a caretaker agreement.

Mrs OBumble

Your insurance company will likely have a checklist of things they want done.

Be aware that if the power is off for that long, you will pay a substantial fee for reconnection.

cnocbui

I would say you can't.

You could install an obvious surveillance system but that is about it. I think tenants would be less hassle in the long run.

Graham

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Your insurance company will likely have a checklist of things they want done.

Most insurance policies I've seen will at least have a list of risks that won't be covered after a specified period of non-occupancy.

I had tenants before when I was away for three years, but it isn't worth the hassle and cost of renting out again.

Theres something seriously messed up in this country if the above is true.

OP, imagine you come back after 2 years away and find the house has a 2 resident squatters in it. They've ripped out most of the plumbing to sell and have started ripping up the floorboards to burn for heat. It then takes a 6 month long courtcase to get them out. I don't know what costs and hassles you had when you rented before but its surely better than that potential nightmare.

Have you no friends who you could let live there rent free?

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

OP, imagine you come back after 2 years away and find the house has a 2 resident squatters in it. They've ripped out most of the plumbing to sell and have started ripping up the floorboards to burn for heat. It then takes a 6 month long courtcase to get them out. I don't know what costs and hassles you had when you rented before but its surely better than that potential nightmare.

There are plenty of landlords who have been through almost that exact scenario with tenants.

You should definitely go down the caretaker route, someone you trust who will live in it and look after it.
The way things are with squatters now, i wouldn't chance it.
I've done it myself in the past and it worked out very well, i had a couple of years to save and the owner had the place well looked after.

ParkRunner

Deleted User wrote: »

Theres something seriously messed up in this country if the above is true.

OP, imagine you come back after 2 years away and find the house has a 2 resident squatters in it. They've ripped out most of the plumbing to sell and have started ripping up the floorboards to burn for heat. It then takes a 6 month long courtcase to get them out. I don't know what costs and hassles you had when you rented before but its surely better than that potential nightmare.

Have you no friends who you could let live there rent free?

I have family who are willing to call over to the property the odd time and keep an eye on it, do minor upkeep like cut grass & check post etc, but it doesn't suit anyone to live in it full time.

I don't think it's worthwhile renting out given the costs associated with renting out, tax due on income & cost of any repairs/changes after tenants have moved out. Was planning to stay in the house myself too on occasional trips home.

If it wasn't my family home I would consider renting it out, but even with an agent managing previous tenancies, the cost in terms of time and money trying to do it properly has me convinced to leave it empty this time.

Sleepy

Would the council be interested in a 2 year lease?

ParkRunner

bubblypop wrote: »

You should definitely go down the caretaker route, someone you trust who will live in it and look after it.
The way things are with squatters now, i wouldn't chance it.
I've done it myself in the past and it worked out very well, i had a couple of years to save and the owner had the place well looked after.

I didn't even know there was such a service, sounds like the best route to go down alright!

ParkRunner

ParkRunner wrote: »

I didn't even know there was such a service, sounds like the best route to go down alright!

There isnt really such a service. He means organise someone to be the caretaker yourself. Leaving the property empty is a really bad idea.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

There isnt really such a service. He means organise someone to be the caretaker yourself. Leaving the property empty is a really bad idea.

There is actually such a service. It appeared to do very well during the slump where people were caretaking all sorts of properties from houses to hotels, commercial buildings etc.

Asking somebody you personally know/trust is probably a better route.

Added:
Camelot Europe were the vacant property service company in/out of the press.

Lumen

I went through this myself when I moved out last year. Insurance companies would only cover a few risks, excluding deliberate damage.

Ms Doubtfire1

get an agent and do Airbnb.

smunchkins

If you want I'll housesit for you, rent free, so no tax implications! (though I do come with a dog...)
I've a similar problem myself, work in Dublin, gorgeous home in rural Cork.
Have had no end of trouble with housemates/renting down there, (the last one rearranged the house during her 10 day tenure last month) so I no longer advertise it as it really is not worth the hassle.
In seriousness your best bet would be a trusted caretaker friend to look after it for free, and if you want extra cash they can sublet the rooms.
Having a mostly empty house myself, it still costs money to maintain. You really have to watch out for damp, so the heating has to go on very regularly, and the electricity has to be maintained.

Moonbeam

For insurance ,piece of mind etc .You need someone there to mind the house .

ParkRunner

Sleepy wrote: »

Would the council be interested in a 2 year lease?

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

get an agent and do Airbnb.

Renting the property didn't really work out before, the costs involved leave little profit & take up too much time. Agents I had before were not reliable either and I successfully took a case against them to the PSRA.

Ms Doubtfire1

ParkRunner wrote: »

Renting the property didn't really work out before, the costs involved leave little profit & take up too much time. Agents I had before were not reliable either and I successfully took a case against them to the PSRA.

AIR bnb isn't really renting. And a friend or family member would be able to run it for you-split the profits...

smunchkins

I'd recommend against the Airbnb route if you're abroad.
I also have a garage conversion beside the main house down in Cork and do Airbnb that way.
Luckily I have a housekeeper who is extremely close by, but if you can't get someone to live in the house full time and don't want hassle, then it is unlikely this would suit you. There is a tremendous amount of work involved in contacting guests, doing changeovers, making sure everything is ok and then having to sort tax too!
For an easy life get a rent free friend in who will cover the bills and keep the house in a fit state.

Steer55

Hi OP, you will find it very difficult to get insurance on a vacant house as one of the conditions is that you have someone inspecting it externally and internally at least weekly. I have a vacant house for past 7 years as working abroad, this is what I have done to protect it from break in, trusted neighbours watch it, I keep timer lights on especially during the winter months, water is turned off and all wall ventilators are kept open to prevent dampness, I keep car parked outside, lawns and garden maintained regularly. Thankfully house has never been touched. Like others have said, it's in an area of rent shortages but I have no appetite to become a landlord, know too many people whose houses were wrecked by Tennant's and read too many horror stories on here to even consider contemplate letting it out.

witnessmenow

ParkRunner wrote: »

I'll be leaving the country in a few weeks on a 2 year contract and the plan is to leave my house empty. Any tips on how best to secure the property from damage - vandalism or natural? It's a 3 bed terraced house in an estate in Dublin.

I had tenants before when I was away for three years, but it isn't worth the hassle and cost of renting out again. Boarding up the property seems a bit extreme so was wondering what people generally do to secure an empty property when leaving for a long period

Are your particularity attached to the house? Could you sell it? Bit of a gamble with regards the market but at least you don't need to worry about it.

knipex

Deleted User wrote: »

Theres something seriously messed up in this country if the above is true.

Its true. I moved for a couple of years and rented.. cost me a fortune and damaged my relationship with the neighbor.

If I had my time again I would leave it empty.

ParkRunner

witnessmenow wrote: »

Are your particularity attached to the house? Could you sell it? Bit of a gamble with regards the market but at least you don't need to worry about it.

Not particularly attached to it but I bought at a good time so mortgage repayments are low, otherwise I'd have no choice but to rent it out. Long term plan is to sell it but it was bought under the affordable housing scheme so clawback comes into it. It wouldn't make sense to sell now when I will be coming back in 2 years (unless contract is extended) and will need somewhere to live in Dublin.

Bandana boy

Even if the house is in a really bad estate in Dublin you are giving up 28-30K of income here
Even taxed if at the top rate and you have no deductibles that is a min 15K cash you are walking away from !

Get an agent in and I guarantee the house will be in better shape when you return than if you leave it alone and to boot not only are you being a good citizen releasing a property in the middle of a property crisis you will have several thousands of Euros Cash waiting for you too when you return.

CaoimheSquee

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Your insurance company will likely have a checklist of things they want done.

You will be lucky to find anywhere that will insure a completely vacant property. It will be classed as derelict. However if you can get someone to stay there 3 nights a week it will be classed as lived in.

Undercover

Seems bonkers to leave it sitting empty. Do you not have any friends / relatives saving for a mortgage that would be happy to housesit given the mutual benefits?

smunchkins

knipex wrote: »

Its true. I moved for a couple of years and rented.. cost me a fortune and damaged my relationship with the neighbor.

If I had my time again I would leave it empty.

I agree. I played a Janus role for many years, trying to be a kindly landlady plus good tenant. Got burnt so many times from both sides I became a conscientious objector,so no longer either!

(Though I have looked after friends gaffs and that did work out alright - so do have experience if you want to recruit a house-sitter from Boards)

Hey, we could set-up a match-making property thread, have a spare house or looking for a reliable place to stay?
Don't want hassle with tax? Lets swap/trade/freecycle!
I think it could work. :rolleyes:

ParkRunner

Bandana boy wrote: »

Even if the house is in a really bad estate in Dublin you are giving up 28-30K of income here
Even taxed if at the top rate and you have no deductibles that is a min 15K cash you are walking away from !

Get an agent in and I guarantee the house will be in better shape when you return than if you leave it alone and to boot not only are you being a good citizen releasing a property in the middle of a property crisis you will have several thousands of Euros Cash waiting for you too when you return.

15k is very optimistic given pre and post rental costs, repairs & maintenance, tax and USC on income and time spent managing the tenancy or keeping an eye on an agent - I have yet to meet a good agent.

Undercover wrote: »

Seems bonkers to leave it sitting empty. Do you not have any friends / relatives saving for a mortgage that would be happy to housesit given the mutual benefits?

Most of my friends have their own houses/family. Family and neighbour will check on the house occasionally and it will be there for occasional visits home. A tenancy could go wonderfully but it could be a complete disaster - it's not worth the risk.

Varik

You'd be a non resident then and it'd be at 20% tax not the top rate.

737max

It isn't even 20%.

You pay your income in your country of residence.
If you are going to a low tax country it is less. If you are going to a higher tax country you pay more.

In Ireland you just need to appoint a rent receiver otherwise the tenant is obliged to deduct 20% for Tax.

I emigrated and sold up as I didn't consider the house as somewhere I'd be coming back to. If I was coming back to Ireland I'd need to be coming back to something "better".

Also, I had plenty of expensive furnishing and fittings which I knew a tenant would not care for so didn't want to rent on that ground either.

If you are in a low tax country I recommend you consider renting as it is probably financially beneficial to you and it is a shame to leave a habitable building vacant.

knipex

knipex wrote: »

Its true. I moved for a couple of years and rented.. cost me a fortune and damaged my relationship with the neighbor.

If I had my time again I would leave it empty.

As I said, something is seriously wrong then.

I started writing a paragraph on everything wrong with property in Dublin and then realized no-one wants to read it.

To the original poster, in the current property crisis, where rents are sky high, experienced professionals are moving in with their Ma to save for deposits,I'm genuinely surprised you don't have a friend or relative who would love free housing for 2 years.

They pay you no rent, you get charged no tax, if the washing machine breaks down they buy a new one. Surely everyone is happy? I'd kill to be in the position of being offered a deal like this.

Where in Dublin is it?

seamus

One thing to think about is giving a neighbour access to use the house. That's if you trust them of course.

As a terraced house, the only person who comes close to caring about what happens to your house is the neighbour who is attached to it. Come to an agreement with them that they have the right, for example, to use your gardens, store stuff in your shed/house, let family members stay over in the bedrooms, etc, in exchange for ensuring that the house is looked after.

But obviously the agreement is not that they can rent it out or otherwise let anyone stay in it long term. You would need to trust your neighbour. Give a family member a second key to check on it from time to time.

That could satisfy your insurance's obligation that the house is occupied.

evolving_doors

Could you do a house swop with someone in the location you are going to... long shot ! But at least both have a mutual interest!

Viscount Aggro

We had a trusted neighbour checking on our house for a couple of weeks, while we were abroad.
She fell in the back yard and broke her shoulder. I suspect she was p***ed. It went legal and lasted 2 years, legal bills were massive in the end.

frozenfrozen

I'll move in

ParkRunner

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said, something is seriously wrong then.

I started writing a paragraph on everything wrong with property in Dublin and then realized no-one wants to read it.

To the original poster, in the current property crisis, where rents are sky high, experienced professionals are moving in with their Ma to save for deposits,I'm genuinely surprised you don't have a friend or relative who would love free housing for 2 years.

They pay you no rent, you get charged no tax, if the washing machine breaks down they buy a new one. Surely everyone is happy? I'd kill to be in the position of being offered a deal like this.

Where in Dublin is it?

I've no one I know jumping at the prospect of doing the caretaker role anyway, it doesn't suit many people due to work, pets, their own properties or their own commitments/interests. I would happily let a family member/friend live in the house and cover bills but it doesn't seem to suit anyone. The house is in north county Dublin on the train line.

seamus wrote: »

One thing to think about is giving a neighbour access to use the house. That's if you trust them of course.

As a terraced house, the only person who comes close to caring about what happens to your house is the neighbour who is attached to it. Come to an agreement with them that they have the right, for example, to use your gardens, store stuff in your shed/house, let family members stay over in the bedrooms, etc, in exchange for ensuring that the house is looked after.

But obviously the agreement is not that they can rent it out or otherwise let anyone stay in it long term. You would need to trust your neighbour. Give a family member a second key to check on it from time to time.

That could satisfy your insurance's obligation that the house is occupied.

Yes the next door neighbour on one side we get on with quite well and thankfully they are happy to keep an eye on the place & will have a key. They will also have the benefit of having a quiet life. Previous tenants were not always good or reasonable neighbours.

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Could you do a house swop with someone in the location you are going to... long shot ! But at least both have a mutual interest!

My rent abroad will be paid for anyway so probably no need for me to sign up for for something like that..

In relation to the loss of rental income, my time will be quite valuable over the next 2 years getting the most out of living abroad and having small children so managing a potentially car crash rental is not something I'll need

frozenfrozen

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I'll move in

I was here first :pac:

smunchkins

Deleted User wrote: »

I was here first :pac:

Actually *I* volunteered first! (And I don't have the baggage of having to get out from another tenancy, plus I've years of experience in property management)

We need either a Big Brother style vote off as to who gets it, (or maybe all move in together?!) or perhaps some Battle Royale style fight :cool:

ParkRunner

ParkRunner wrote: »

I've no one I know jumping at the prospect of doing the caretaker role anyway, it doesn't suit many people due to work, pets, their own properties or their own commitments/interests. I would happily let a family member/friend live in the house and cover bills but it doesn't seem to suit anyone. The house is in north county Dublin on the train line.



Yes the next door neighbour on one side we get on with quite well and thankfully they are happy to keep an eye on the place & will have a key. They will also have the benefit of having a quiet life. Previous tenants were not always good or reasonable neighbours.



My rent abroad will be paid for anyway so probably no need for me to sign up for for something like that..

In relation to the loss of rental income, my time will be quite valuable over the next 2 years getting the most out of living abroad and having small children so managing a potentially car crash rental is not something I'll need

it sounds like the only way to go is do a deal with your neighbour. It needs to be a little more than "keep an eye on the place", it should look lived in for the 2 years you are gone. I'd recommend low energy lights on timers to come on around 6pm and off around 10pm, to indicate that to anyone watching, there is someone there.

ParkRunner

smunchkins wrote: »

Actually *I* volunteered first! (And I don't have the baggage of having to get out from another tenancy, plus I've years of experience in property management)

We need either a Big Brother style vote off as to who gets it, (or maybe all move in together?!) or perhaps some Battle Royale style fight :cool:

Sounds like a great idea

I understand those who are saying I'm mad not to rent it out, but having rented it out before to three different tenants (one of which was through an agent) I'm done with that all that business.

bucketybuck

I wish I knew the OP in real life.

Varik

737max wrote: »

It isn't even 20%.

You pay your income in your country of residence.
If you are going to a low tax country it is less. If you are going to a higher tax country you pay more.

In Ireland you just need to appoint a rent receiver otherwise the tenant is obliged to deduct 20% for Tax.

I emigrated and sold up as I didn't consider the house as somewhere I'd be coming back to. If I was coming back to Ireland I'd need to be coming back to something "better".

Also, I had plenty of expensive furnishing and fittings which I knew a tenant would not care for so didn't want to rent on that ground either.

If you are in a low tax country I recommend you consider renting as it is probably financially beneficial to you and it is a shame to leave a habitable building vacant.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tax_relief_for_tenants.html

Landlords living abroad

If your landlord lives outside Ireland and you pay your rent through an agent, you do not have to deduct tax from the rent. The landlord’s collection agent must account for the tax in an annual tax return.

However, if you pay the rent directly to the landlord (including into their bank account, whether in Ireland or abroad), you must deduct tax at the standard rate (20% at present) from the gross amount that you pay. This deduction is not your tax relief - it is tax payable to Revenue from your landlord's income.

For example, your landlord lives in Germany and you pay him/her gross rent per month of €1,000. First, work out the amount of tax to be deducted (€1,000 x 20% = €200). Now deduct the tax due from the gross rent you pay (€1,000 - €200 = €800). The net rent to be paid to your landlord is €800 per month. The amount due to Revenue is the €200 per month that you deducted from the gross rent of €1,000.

Accounting to Revenue for tax deducted from rent

You must account to Revenue for the tax that you deduct from the gross rent. If you fail to deduct tax from rent that you pay directly to a landlord living outside Ireland, this will mean that you (and not the landlord) will be liable for any tax that should have been deducted.

If you pay tax under PAYE, you can account for it by reducing your tax credits and Standard Rate Cut-Off Point. You can notify your local Revenue Office and ask them to arrange this. Alternatively, you can make a tax return - Form 12 (pdf) and pay the retained amount to Revenue.

If you pay tax under self-assessment, you should include the details of your rent on your annual return - Form 11 (pdf). A notice of assessment will then issue to you, showing the reduced credit.

At the end of the year you must give your landlord a completed Certificate of Income Tax Deducted - Form R185 (pdf).

Scraggs

ParkRunner wrote: »

Sounds like a great idea

I understand those who are saying I'm mad not to rent it out, but having rented it out before to three different tenants (one of which was through an agent) I'm done with that all that business.

I don't think you're mad ...if I was in your position I wouldn't rent it out either. I would ask neighbours to keep an eye and you could always install those discreet cctv cameras that you can view from your phone/laptop for extra peace of mind! I'd get your post diverted and make sure the letterbox is fixed closed. Also make any entrances like side gates etc. are fully secure. Get good net curtains for the windows and glass doors so an opportunist that may have a nose in through the window can't see too much!

seamus

ParkRunner wrote: »

I understand those who are saying I'm mad not to rent it out, but having rented it out before to three different tenants (one of which was through an agent) I'm done with that all that business.

I do imagine there's a tendency on behalf of some tenants to take more liberties with a property when they know the landlord is non-resident.

Having a family member manage the rental is a good way to see this off, but it's a big ask, even if you're giving them a cut of the rent.

So, no, I don't think you're mad. But with the market the way it is, I would be inclined to think about selling up and keeping the cash to fund a purchase when you return.

listermint

The long and short of it is OP you are throwing money away here.

You said you bought the property with the ultimate goal to sell it.

If you put your business hat on for a minute here you would realise what your are doing is tantamount to Ryanair buying a plane and not flying it all the time because they have to clean it after each flight.

If you come to your senses and be super selective about tenants i.e background check and contact their workplace references you will mitigate the problems you may have.

But it's as clear as day that you are burning money here and if you had a business hat on then you would see that.

Call me Al

Check your house insurance policy. What is vacancy defined as? Can you have someone stay over 2 or 3 night's a month to keep the place inhabited if that is what the T&Cs require?

You need to keep lights on timers.Have you looked at home automation? Friends who have a holiday home use motion sensor cctv to watch for activity around the house. Take a look at the Internet of Things forum on here for some discussions. Is your home alarmed? What window dressings do you have? When we were abroad 10 years ago I used sheer voiles downstairs for security.
Personally i don't blame you for not renting out your home. We didn't and I won't if we go again. I'd much prefer to have a friend house-sit but i wouldnt allow strangers in.

ParkRunner

seamus wrote: »

I do imagine there's a tendency on behalf of some tenants to take more liberties with a property when they know the landlord is non-resident.

Having a family member manage the rental is a good way to see this off, but it's a big ask, even if you're giving them a cut of the rent.

So, no, I don't think you're mad. But with the market the way it is, I would be inclined to think about selling up and keeping the cash to fund a purchase when you return.

It's an affordable house so still has clawback restrictions attached on selling & the mortgage is small, otherwise I would strongly consider selling, although it would leave me looking for a house in 2 years.

listermint wrote: »

The long and short of it is OP you are throwing money away here.

You said you bought the property with the ultimate goal to sell it.

If you put your business hat on for a minute here you would realise what your are doing is tantamount to Ryanair buying a playing and not flying it all the time because they have to clean it after each flight.

If you come to your senses and be super selective about tenants i.e background check and contact their workplace references you will mitigate the problems you may have.

But it's as clear as day that you are burning money here and if you had a business hat on then you would see that.

I bought it as a single man with the intention of living there, but now have family so will have to upsize eventually.

Post tenancy costs usually consist of more than cleaning from my experience anyway - new mattresses, painting, repairs, sometimes flooring etc. Despite tenancy agreements, I've had different tenants paint the house their own colours, change the flooring, fix mirror tiles to the walls, have pets which damaged doors & fences, decide to up and go after a few weeks (as is their right), damage kitchen tiles and presses, cause water damage, steal furniture, put up wallpaper and generally be a nuisance to neighours. None of the damage on its own was huge but in total it was a big headache to fix. An established property agent I had managing a tenancy didn't do their job and I won a case against them.

I will make a lot more money abroad so will be happy to take a hit on leaving the property empty.

Hope to get solid gates and CCTV in soon and our neigbour is home all day

carolmon

I'd go the caretaker option...people who avail of these services tend to look after the properties well
Camelot has been mentioned before ....here's the link

https://ie.cameloteurope.com/

There's also housesitting services, I'm registering to avail of housesitting options abroad as a cheap holiday, again people tend to look after properties very well and there's online reviews and recommendations for housesitters

https://www.trustedhousesitters.com/ie/

The other option is to let rooms only and keep the house as your main residence when in Ireland, somewhere to stay on trips home and easy to move people on if they don't look after your property.

bucketybuck

ParkRunner wrote: »

An established property agent I had managing a tenancy didn't do their job and I won a case against them.

Although you may have had a bad experience, is there anything to be said for finding the most highly rated agent out there and using them? Even if their rates are higher you could still end up with more income than doing nothing, as well as having a house that isn't sitting vacant?

minikin

Hi ParkRunner,

Have you considered getting a cleaner in once a week, they could air the place, turn on heating for an hour, run the water, generally be a set of eyes and a sign of life around the place.