My Dog Seems to Hate Men

holly_johnson

Hi there, long time lurker (not lurcher :pac:), first time poster here. We rescued a Westie cross (Fenrir) almost 9 months ago. He's neutered, about 20 months old now and a really gorgeous little fella. Can't remember life without him! He's quite typical in his Westie behaviour in that he'll bark like mad when anyone or anything comes into the drive, but means no harm. I think he's just saying he's the boss! Having introduced them, the postman is great with him & knocks on the window & waves to him every day! Only outstanding training issues are he loves to play bite & he won't use the dog flap, but that's for another day.

My bigger problem is that he seems to hate men apart from my husband who he worships. My FIL (who is very tall) came to visit and he just went for him, barking like crazy. No amount of soothing him would work. Even holding him in my arms he was growling like mad so I had to put him out the back. I felt bad doing that, as it's his house too and he was upset at being put out. At the time I thought maybe it was just that he didn't like tall older men as maybe his previous owner hadn't been nice to him & had been older & tall, but my BIL visited the other week and he went nuts at him too! My SIL visited (who hates dogs) and all he did to her was try & lick her feet so it's definitely just a man thing. Any advice you can give me to prevent a re-occurrence and stop him getting so stressed?

kylith

Sounds to me like he had a bad experience with a tall man. Finn used to hide from my father when I got him first so we reckoned that at some point he had a bad experience with an older man.

What really helped was my dad just ignoring him. After a while Finn realised that he wasn't a threat and now my dad's one of his favourite people. I'd recommend putting the dog on lead while your FiL is around and having your FiL just ignore him apart from occasionally throwing him a delicious treat. Eventually your pup will realise that this tall man is the best thing going and stop reacting negatively. The more men you can do this with the better for the dog.

Bobby1981

I am a dog sitter. I live in a small apartment so usually only mind one dog a a time. This couple they were stuck and had two, so I agreed to mind them for a weekend, mainly because one of them was the size of a shoe....so was hardly going to take up any more room or be any more trouble than the other rather larger one:)

I always do a 'Meet and Greet' before agreeing to mind any dog, so that the owner and dog can see exactly who their dog will be staying with and where. I want the owner to be happy leaving their dog here with me and more importantly, that their dog will feel at ease and know I will love them and look after them well.

So the larger of my 'two' was very nervous of men. The day the owner and he came....he was fine with me but hid behind his owners legs when my other half was there. I immediately felt an affinity with that dog. I am a strange anxious one myself so I have a huge huge soft spot for a nervous animal or human, I agreed to mind the two of them.

We ( my other half and I) decided to just let me love the dog to death while my other half just 'hung around' and let my nervous one get used to him in his own time.

Of all the dogs I have minded, that dog is one of my proudest achievements. He was not allowed up on the sofa in his own house but I asked the owners if it was okay if I let him up on mine....I told them I couldn't bring myself to let the little one up and yet leave my nervous one on the floor....so they said yes.

I took my two dogs up beside me on the sofa with my other half sitting the other side. By the time their owners came back, both dogs were snuggling and lying and sitting all over me AND my other half....so much so, that when their owners came to collect them....My Nervous One never even got down off my sofa to greet them lol.

His owner was flabbergasted and delighted. He said it was the first time since he had got that dog many years before, that he had not immediately jumped to greet him.

The best part for me was that, not long after the owners took them home...they sent me a message saying 'Guess who is sitting on the sofa with us'...they had decided to let not just the little guy, but my nervous one up on their sofa too:)

They totally made my day. Nice people.

I have minded them two boys again since then and my nervous one is not nervous no more....he came straight in and jumped up on my sofa between myself and my other half. He knew he was safe.

So from my experience.....patience.....letting the dog feel safe in his own time. Just 'be there' but not in their face. Lots of calm and soothing voices and kindness. Lots and lots of kindness.

I love my nervous dog....I would hate now for anyone to mind him but me. Him and his brother are like two meerkats, two heads watching and moving at the same time. One of my most rewarding 'dogsits' of all time:)

DEFTLEFTHAND

We'd a similar situation years ago when we had a chocolate lab.

My Dad at the time worked as a Ships Officer in the Merchant Navy. He'd be away for 3-4 months and then home for a month.

We got the dog as an adult labrador when he was away, when he came home the lab didn't want him at all, he'd bark at him and make aggressive overtures.

An uncle of mine who has a way with dogs came over one day and set things straight. He brought the choc lab into our sitting and told Dad to straddle him in a dominant manner, sitting over the dog and making him submit to the Alpha of the house.

We never had a problem after.

DBB

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

An uncle of mine who has a way with dogs came over one day and set things straight. He brought the choc lab into our sitting and told Dad to straddle him in a dominant manner, sitting over the dog and making him submit to the Alpha of the house.

I'm not going to go into details on the reasons why this is not such a good idea, because it's been covered again and again on this forum, except to say that chief amongst the reasons for not doing the above is being that thanks to our far better understanding of dog behaviour, and their mechanisms of both learning and social behaviours, it's now universally accepted by behavioural scientists, applied behaviourists, and qualified trainers that dogs don't exist within a dominance hierarchy, nor recognise what an "alpha" is. Neither do wolves as it happens.
It is far, far, far more likely that this labrador was initially anxious about the arrival of an unknown man into his house, and the physical contact made (albeit by "force" as in, doing it against the dog's will) allowed the dog to get over the initial nervousness many dogs feel about being approached and touched by a stranger. Guaranteed it would have happened anyway, giving the dog a bit of space to figure things out.
If you straddled a more sparky dog as described, you'd be quite likely to get bitten.
Plus, I'd love to see, purely for entertainment purposes, the same advice being carried out on an Irish Wolfhound. Or a Chihuahua!

http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878(08)00115-9/abstract
http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/caninedominance
http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die
http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/why-not-dominance.php

Prinks

DBB wrote: »

If you straddled a more sparky dog as described, you'd be quite likely to get bitten.
Plus, I'd love to see, purely for entertainment purposes, the same advice being carried out on an Irish Wolfhound. Or a Chihuahua!

My nutty rescued chihuahua would have taken the opportunity to rip his balls off :pac:

That aggressive behaviour is about fear, isn't it? That's what I'm constantly told about 'nutty chihuahua' anyway. If a strange man is coming into the house I usually shut that dog in another room until the man is established and sitting in kitchen or sitting room, so the dog is then coming into his space rather than the other way around. Works with my dog, no guarantees it will work with yours, of course.

kylith

Prinks wrote: »

My nutty rescued chihuahua would have taken the opportunity to rip his balls off :pac:

Yep; that's how someone alpha-rolling my terrier came millimetres from getting bitten on the face.

What worked with her? Telling everyone to pretend she wasn't there and let her come to them.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Dogs follow the rules of their nature.

There's no emotional factor. They respond to their instinct only.

Male dogs all think their the big guy. Sometimes they need to be put in their place by the leader of the human family who they reside with.

DBB

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Dogs follow the rules of their nature.

There's no emotional factor. They respond to their instinct only.

Whilst instinct underpins much behaviour, you also need to factor in the fact that dogs can and do learn new skills in response to their environment, and that they are emotional beings... Their emotions often shaped by their environment.
To say they respond to their instinct only is doing a major disservice to their actual learning capabilities, and completely ignores not only their emotionality, but also the effects of domestication on their behaviour. It's far too simplistic to say it's only about instinctive behaviour.

Male dogs all think their the big guy. Sometimes they need to be put in their place by the leader of the human family who they reside with.

No. No they don't.
And no. No they don't.

Knine

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Male dogs all think their the big guy. Sometimes they need to be put in their place by the leader of the human family who they reside with.

Not in my house, the male dogs are much softer & far more easy going then the bitches! There is no leader here either. Certainly we never put dogs in their place!

borderlinemeath

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Dogs follow the rules of their nature.

There's no emotional factor. They respond to their instinct only.

Male dogs all think their the big guy. Sometimes they need to be put in their place by the leader of the human family who they reside with.

I have 3 dogs, 1 female and 2 males.

In your head the 2 males should be fighting to be Alpha and want to mate the female.

In reality the bitch is the queen of the house and her boys adore the ground she walks on, she flirts with both of them, and gives out to them in equal measure if they annoy her.

Oh, and none of the dogs have tried to "take over" or have to be shown that the human is their "dominant leader".

Have a read of some of the links listed above. I really hope you don't actually have a dog to "put in their place" given your outdated opinions.

deadlybuzzman

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Dogs follow the rules of their nature.

There's no emotional factor. They respond to their instinct only.

.

Fear is an emotion and they definitely respond to fear so no. That's just wrong.

And if the alpha thing was correct it's would be possible to do it to all dogs, collies, dogos, presas, APBTS mallinois etc.
Good luck finding anyone that would do that and not have many many holes in their person

Bobby1981

Bobby1981 wrote: »

I am a dog sitter.

Where are you based?
I'm looking for a dog-sitter at the moment

Bobby1981

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

An uncle of mine who has a way with dogs came over one day and set things straight. He brought the choc lab into our sitting and told Dad to straddle him in a dominant manner, sitting over the dog and making him submit to the Alpha of the house.

We never had a problem after.

No. Just No. This is all kinds of wrong.

Bobby1981

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Dogs follow the rules of their nature.

There's no emotional factor. They respond to their instinct only.

Male dogs all think their the big guy. Sometimes they need to be put in their place by the leader of the human family who they reside with.

No offense but I really hope you don't own a dog.
Dogs do for sure feel emotions. They are one of the best animals on earth. They never need to be 'put in their place' by anyone.
They just need good owners and good training.
They will do anything to please you , if in the right hands.

They are the most loving and loyal of all animals.

Atari Jaguar

Like was said it's likely the doggo had a bad time with a tall person before my fiancée has a dog who hates bald men, because a neighbour used to yell at her. And a cat who hates men who smoke, because she used to get given out to by my fiancées dad when he was a smoker! So if you're a man and you smell of smoke Emi won't go near you :P it's just fear by association she should come out of it in time

Bobby1981

bubblypop wrote: »

Where are you based?
I'm looking for a dog-sitter at the moment

Sorry, I missed your post. I am in Dublin.

I am booked up for most of this month though with two new dogs which I am most excited about:)

One thing about most of you here is you have your own dogs. As a Dog Sitter, I mind a few different dogs who just like people, all have their own personalities and quirks and likes and dislikes. Its amazing how different they all can be. I have my timid ones and my independant ones and my pampered ones etc. I get so so attached to them, especially the ones I mind on the regular. I love meeting so many different personalities.

Hand on heart, it has made me love dogs more and more. I have my dogs whose owners wont leave them with anyone else and because I love them and I am happy about that. I would be afraid, someone else wouldn't look after them right. I know all my dogs, what they like and dislike. They sleep on my bed with me, they sit alongside me. I know what treats to get them and how they like to play.

That poster who said about the alpha and 'dominating' your dog. I mind a dog who is totally the apple of her owners eye.....like totally spoiled. She is one of those lucky dogs who is treated like a princess. She is a beautiful gentle dog who has never had so much as a voice raised to her. The thought of anyone trying to 'dominate' her horrifies me.

Anyway, back to the OP. The dog is frightened. Or like my nervous one had been mistreated in his early life by a male. Just give him space around men. Let him be around them without them approaching him. Let him go to them in his own time.

holly_johnson

Thanks everyone for your replies, plenty of food for thought there. FIL was quite relaxed about the dog going spare at him (he was raised on a farm), it was me that was more stressed about it tbh. I think you're right, I'll get him to give him some normally forbidden yummy treats & hopefully that will win him over. I've no fear that he'd bite FIL or anything like that, the more I get to know Fenrir the more I realise he's all mouth & no action

kylith

holly_johnson wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your replies, plenty of food for thought there. FIL was quite relaxed about the dog going spare at him (he was raised on a farm), it was me that was more stressed about it tbh. I think you're right, I'll get him to give him some normally forbidden yummy treats & hopefully that will win him over. I've no fear that he'd bite FIL or anything like that, the more I get to know Fenrir the more I realise he's all mouth & no action

Many of them are. As with humans it's often the quiet ones you have to watch out for.

Latatian

Also tall people just loom and men have deeper voices. Dogs can be fearful of them if they have no negative experiences, just haven't had any positive ones.

Kylith's advice is good, don't force too much interaction. Don't make him feel cornered or trapped. Allow him his own space and his own time to figure it out, and make sure tall men are always paired with Good Things.