60l tank beginner with tropical fish

lolo62

Hi I got a 60l tank with all the gear as a present. My plan is to get a male betta, a small group of harlequins and a little catfish to do some cleaning.
I have two questions if anyone can advise..
Will that be interesting enough in the tank or should I get more? If so what would work with the above? I really wanted to get neon tetras but they would bite the betta I hear so going for harlequins instead. Would love some guppies, mollies etc but it seems they would cause problem for the betta.

Then I have a couple of artificial plants and ornaments but would like to put in some crystals and stones of my own. Crystals are all of the quartz variety so very hard but I'm wondering if they are ok to put in? Do I need to treat them and the stones (found at the beach) first?

Thanks

Sleepy

First things first: a betta should never have tankmates. Their fins are too attractive to other fish and they're not called Fighter Fish for nothing...

Anything not designed for used in a fish tank should be sterilised before being added to a tank: steep them in bleach, then thoroughly rinse them in hot water (it evaporates the bleach - same technique as you use for sterilizing home brew gear).

If you haven't already, read the sticky on this forum about cycling your tank. An understanding of water chemistry is the single most important thing for fishkeepers

lolo62

Sleepy wrote: »

First things first: a betta should never have tankmates. Their fins are too attractive to other fish and they're not called Fighter Fish for nothing...

Anything not designed for used in a fish tank should be sterilised before being added to a tank: steep them in bleach, then thoroughly rinse them in hot water (it evaporates the bleach - same technique as you use for sterilizing home brew gear).

If you haven't already, read the sticky on this forum about cycling your tank. An understanding of water chemistry is the single most important thing for fishkeepers

Thanks. I will sterilise everything so. I got one of those kits that makes the water ok to put fish in after a day, although I see they are a bit controversial.

In relation to the betta my boyfriend was told the harlequins would be OK and that was why I was going to go for those instead of tetras.
Is it not possible to do it say by putting the harlequins in first and then later introducing the betta?

Sleepy

The easy-start kits aren't "controversial": they're snake oil. Have you fish in the tank at the moment? If so, you're burning them. Some hardier individuals may survive but be prepared to lose a few.

Who told your boyfriend that the betta would be okay with the harlequins? I suppose that "technically" an experienced aquarist might be able to get a particularly peaceful betta to coexist peacefully with them but I don't know many who'd be prepared to try it.

Knine

Betta's are much better off in their own tank. I learned that the hard way. I have a large Tropical tank & 2 male platy were constantly fighting. I moved one into the Betta tank & they lived happily together for about 6 mths until one morning I found the Platy half battered to death.

You need to cycle the tank. Those start up treatment's don't work. Another alternative is to seed your filter sponge from an established aquarium. I have done that with great success.

lolo62

Sleepy wrote: »

The easy-start kits aren't "controversial": they're snake oil. Have you fish in the tank at the moment? If so, you're burning them. Some hardier individuals may survive but be prepared to lose a few.

Who told your boyfriend that the betta would be okay with the harlequins? I suppose that "technically" an experienced aquarist might be able to get a particularly peaceful betta to coexist peacefully with them but I don't know many who'd be prepared to try it.

No haven't done anything yet. Want to get all the info first. Saunas pet shop told him that we could put betta with harlequins.

lolo62

Knine wrote: »

Betta's are much better off in their own tank. I learned that the hard way. I have a large Tropical tank & 2 male platy were constantly fighting. I moved one into the Betta tank & they lived happily together for about 6 mths until one morning I found the Platy half battered to death.

You need to cycle the tank. Those start up treatment's don't work. Another alternative is to seed your filter sponge from an established aquarium. I have done that with great success.

Oh dear. That's a pity for the platy. It's more complicated than I thought choosing fish!
What's wrong with the start up treatment exactly? I had a look at the blurb and it says it makes tap water safe, reduces risk of fish loss and keeps aquarium clean.
I have a filter but no established aquarium as I'm a total beginner.

Knine

lolo62 wrote: »

Oh dear. That's a pity for the platy. It's more complicated than I thought choosing fish!
What's wrong with the start up treatment exactly? I had a look at the blurb and it says it makes tap water safe, reduces risk of fish loss and keeps aquarium clean.
I have a filter but no established aquarium as I'm a total beginner.

Basically you need to establish a bacteria colony in your filter to break down fish waste/ammonia into harmless waste. No treatment in a bottle is going to do that. Otherwise you will have an ammonia spike & your fish will die.

Sleepy

lolo62 wrote: »

Saunas pet shop told him that we could put betta with harlequins.

Rule 1 of fishkeeping - don't take advice from staff in pet shops.

Evem in specialist aquatics stores, it's best to have your research done first.

lolo62

Thanks for the replies. In the end I didn't go with a betta. Got two dwarf honey gouramis, two mollies and a whiptail catfish.
Everything was fine for the first 12 hours although the black molly seemed a bit unhealthy when we got him. Both mollies got very stressed and died. I think the tank was too small for them and they totally freaked out the gouramis who just hid behind the heater. The male stalked the female constantly and then started shimmying, she was stressed out and couldn't get away from him.
It was probably stupid to get a catfish as a beginner fish, I think the water was too warm for him. Unfortunately I learned that after the fact and he died.
The two gouramis are happy out now that they have the whole tank to themselves, no more hiding. Its beautiful to watch them with their feelers play with eachother.
I think I'll stick with gouramis and once these seem happy for a while will introduce some females and maybe some rummynose tetras.

I've literally been up to my neck in information since starting out. So much to learn and so many peoples opinions/experiences to draw from. What did people do before the Internet?!

lolo62

Sleepy wrote: »

Rule 1 of fishkeeping - don't take advice from staff in pet shops.

Evem in specialist aquatics stores, it's best to have your research done first.

Torally agree with this. The range of things I have been told in the several shops I've been in last few days is unbelievable. The general impression I've come away with is that people are mainly interested in presenting themselves as experts while knowing very little about your particular setup. My favourite shop is definitely seahorse aquariums. Nice staff there and no pretence.

kylith

lolo62 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. In the end I didn't go with a betta. Got two dwarf honey gouramis, two mollies and a whiptail catfish.
Everything was fine for the first 12 hours although the black molly seemed a bit unhealthy when we got him. Both mollies got very stressed and died. I think the tank was too small for them and they totally freaked out the gouramis who just hid behind the heater. The male stalked the female constantly and then started shimmying, she was stressed out and couldn't get away from him.
It was probably stupid to get a catfish as a beginner fish, I think the water was too warm for him. Unfortunately I learned that after the fact and he died.
The two gouramis are happy out now that they have the whole tank to themselves, no more hiding. Its beautiful to watch them with their feelers play with eachother.
I think I'll stick with gouramis and once these seem happy for a while will introduce some females and maybe some rummynose tetras.

I've literally been up to my neck in information since starting out. So much to learn and so many peoples opinions/experiences to draw from. What did people do before the Internet?!

Good luck with the gouramis. They're a relative of the Betta and some species have a reputation for agression; I had a pair myself and the male bullied the female to death so, i think, they are best kept with one male to several females, or make sure to hav some hiding places she can escape to.

Please do some research before buying anything; a quick google of that catfish told me that it needed a planted tank with a hefty current, and grew to 10 inches: waaaaaaay too big for a 60L tank.

lolo62

kylith wrote: »

Good luck with the gouramis. They're a relative of the Betta and some species have a reputation for agression; I had a pair myself and the male bullied the female to death so, i think, they are best kept with one male to several females, or make sure to hav some hiding places she can escape to.

Please do some research before buying anything; a quick google of that catfish told me that it needed a planted tank with a hefty current, and grew to 10 inches: waaaaaaay too big for a 60L tank.

I think it's two males I have. Both are bright orange, one a bit smaller but both have pointed dorsal fin.
The bigger is definitely ruling the roost. The smaller is staying in one corner now which is making me a bit sad. Maybe if I get a few females the dominant male will be otherwise occupied giving the smaller male a bit of freedom to move around.

I feel terrible about the catfish. It was purely an impulse purchase after I was told by a friend they just live happily at the bottom and eat leftovers.

kylith

lolo62 wrote: »

I think it's two males I have. Both are bright orange, one a bit smaller but both have pointed dorsal fin.
The bigger is definitely ruling the roost. The smaller is staying in one corner now which is making me a bit sad. Maybe if I get a few females the dominant male will be otherwise occupied giving the smaller male a bit of freedom to move around.

I feel terrible about the catfish. It was purely an impulse purchase after I was told by a friend they just live happily at the bottom and eat leftovers.

Sounds like two males, in which case they most likely will fight. Females are generally silver. Where are you based? I could take one off your hands if you're around Dublin, I've been thinking of getting a gourami as a statement fish; my tank is 120L and too small for anything really cool.

The first rule of having an aquarium is that there are no impulse purchases. Every fish needs to be thoroughly researched. I've had shop staff try to sell me some massively inappropriate fish.

Sleepy

kylith wrote: »

my tank is 120L and too small for anything really cool.

Scarlet Tetras are really cool! (especially the accidentally bred ones!)

kylith

Sleepy wrote: »

Scarlet Tetras are really cool! (especially the accidentally bred ones!)

Yes the tetras are really cool. If only I could get them 5 times the size!

lolo62

kylith wrote: »

Sounds like two males, in which case they most likely will fight. Females are generally silver. Where are you based? I could take one off your hands if you're around Dublin, I've been thinking of getting a gourami as a statement fish; my tank is 120L and too small for anything really cool.

The first rule of having an aquarium is that there are no impulse purchases. Every fish needs to be thoroughly researched. I've had shop staff try to sell me some massively inappropriate fish.

OK will keep that in mind. I'm in Dublin. Going to try a couple of things first. More plants and then maybe or maybe not adding females. That could make it worse, will have to look into it more.

kylith

Just be careful not to overstock or it'll play hell with your water quality. I have a stock calculator link on my home pc, I'll stick it up later

Knine

lolo62 wrote: »

The two gouramis are happy out now that they have the whole tank to themselves, no more hiding. Its beautiful to watch them with their feelers play with eachother.
I think I'll stick with gouramis and once these seem happy for a while will introduce some females and maybe some rummynose tetras.

Rummynose Tetra are extremely sensitive to water conditions and are best purchased for established tanks only. Even introducing them to your tank can be difficult. They also need to be kept in groups of at least 6. Beautiful fish though. I keep them.

I must get a Gourami for my tank. I love their personalities.

Sleepy

I think this is the site you're talking about kylith?

http://www.aqadvisor.com/

kylith

That's the bunny!

ShaShaBear

I'm not really sure, but I wouldn't be too keen on putting gouramis into a 60L. Certainly not more than two! I have two platinum gouramis (male and female) and they are quite big!
I think when you are starting out its best to stick to hardy fish that are cheap and easy to replace. We had guppies, platys and cardinal tetras in our original 60L. Now we have them in a 50L, two electric blue rams and 6 harlequins in the 60L and a 200L that we are STILL trying to stock completely. That's how much thought you need to put into things.

Sleepy

I'd assume they're dwarf Gourami? We had some of them in our old 180l community tank but never had much luck with them, not the hardiest of species!

ShaShaBear

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd assume they're dwarf Gourami? We had some of them in our old 180l community tank but never had much luck with them, not the hardiest of species!

We got four originally. Two paired platinums and two paired honey. Both the honey were dead within the week (at the time they were the ONLY 4 fish in a 200L cycled tank) but the two platinums are full size and flourishing now!

Knine

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd assume they're dwarf Gourami? We had some of them in our old 180l community tank but never had much luck with them, not the hardiest of species!

Yes I agree. Have not had much luck either.

I have 10 Rummy Nose Tetra, 1 Ram, 2 large Siamese algae eaters, 3 Cardinal Tetra, 4 Bronze Corydora & 2 female Swords.

My tank is 3ft long so the Rummy Nose look great shoaling in it.

ShaShaBear

Knine wrote: »

Yes I agree. Have not had much luck either.

I have 10 Rummy Nose Tetra, 1 Ram, 2 large Siamese algae eaters, 3 Cardinal Tetra, 4 Bronze Corydora & 2 female Swords.

My tank is 3ft long so the Rummy Nose look great shoaling in it.

We got a shoal of rummynose about a fornight ago and they are becoming a fast favourite!

lolo62

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I'm not really sure, but I wouldn't be too keen on putting gouramis into a 60L. Certainly not more than two! I have two platinum gouramis (male and female) and they are quite big!
I think when you are starting out its best to stick to hardy fish that are cheap and easy to replace. We had guppies, platys and cardinal tetras in our original 60L. Now we have them in a 50L, two electric blue rams and 6 harlequins in the 60L and a 200L that we are STILL trying to stock completely. That's how much thought you need to put into things.

Two dwarf honey gouramis.
I added some neon tetras and an albino corydora catfish at the weekend. Decided against the female gouramis because the two there already seem to like having lots of space.

The tetras have really helped with the bullying. The little guy swims around with them now and seems happy he's not the smallest any more. The bully has eased off except for feeding time. Then he gets aggressive and throws his weight around but the smaller one is holding his own and not too bothered. He's stopped playing dead in the corner which is a huge relief.

They're funny fish, very quirky. Both can spend long periods of time in their spots not doing much and then out of nowhere it's like all hell breaks loose. The bigger one has made a little game out of the current from the filter and rides it across the tank, repeatedly. Little one has claimed the fake bonsai for himself and swims in and out of the gaps in the trunk like he's house proud.

Only thing that worries me is the smaller gourami doesn't eat much (at least in comparison to the other fish). I see him having a bite here and there of flakes but mostly he just mooches around the gravel and picks off the driftwood and fake plants. He seems happy enough but hasn't grown as much as the other. I have both two weeks.
Should I be worried or is it just a case some are bigger eaters than others?

penev10

lolo62 wrote: »

Only thing that worries me is the smaller gourami doesn't eat much (at least in comparison to the other fish). I see him having a bite here and there of flakes but mostly he just mooches around the gravel and picks off the driftwood and fake plants. He seems happy enough but hasn't grown as much as the other. I have both two weeks.
Should I be worried or is it just a case some are bigger eaters than others?

Try some frozen food, bloodworms/daphnia/cyclops, and put some at either end of the tank. He should be able to get some without being bullied out of it and even the fussiest of eaters love frozen.

lolo62

penev10 wrote: »

Try some frozen food, bloodworms/daphnia/cyclops, and put some at either end of the tank. He should be able to get some without being bullied out of it and even the fussiest of eaters love frozen.

Thanks will give that a go