National Parks & Native Trees

Hooleyo

I just have a question that I have wondered about.

Why is there no aggressive planting of native trees in Irish (and British) natural parks?

And I think of Wicklow in particular as its somewhere I go more often. Since the Wicklow hills/mountains were forested until relatively recently, you would imagine that something like the birch/silver birch pioneer species would be planted in small pockets to start establishing a more diverse habitat and to begin foresting the mountains back to the way they were.

And UK national parks seem to be similar. They are often vast tracts of mooreland where forests would have been.

I assume that such a habitat as it is now only sustains certain and specific types of wildlife. It certainly wouldn't be conducive to much of the native bird species, let alone the native mammals.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

The designated mountain and moorland areas are just that; mountain and moorland habitats. And extremely important in their own right for flora and fauna.

Hooleyo

I understand that. But would they not sustain more life with more vegetation. Specifically native trees.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Hooleyo wrote: »

I understand that. But would they not sustain more life with more vegetation. Specifically native trees.

In a word, No.

We'd lose all the upland and moorland flora and fauna for the woodland species. A trade off not worth it.

robp

Demetrius Clever Repression wrote: »

The designated mountain and moorland areas are just that; mountain and moorland habitats. And extremely important in their own right for flora and fauna.

It maybe ecological rich but its not natural. Its a farmscape which is fine but doesn't really tie with our the National Park  IUCN Category II designation.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

robp wrote: »

It maybe ecological rich but its not natural. Its a farmscape which is fine but doesn't really tie with our the National Park  IUCN Category II designation.

I'm talking upland and moorland habitats , not farmland.

magicbastarder

Demetrius Clever Repression wrote: »

We'd lose all the upland and moorland flora and fauna for the woodland species. A trade off not worth it.

well, not *all*, necessarily. depends on the balance we have of woodland/upland/moorland, might be worth sacrificing some for the other. obviously the issue there would be letting a particular habitat (quite literally, i suppose) go to seed in the hopes of creating a different habitat.

cameramonkey

Hooleyo wrote: »

I just have a question that I have wondered about.

Why is there no aggressive planting of native trees in Irish (and British) natural parks?

And I think of Wicklow in particular as its somewhere I go more often. Since the Wicklow hills/mountains were forested until relatively recently, you would imagine that something like the birch/silver birch pioneer species would be planted in small pockets to start establishing a more diverse habitat and to begin foresting the mountains back to the way they were.

And UK national parks seem to be similar. They are often vast tracts of mooreland where forests would have been.

I assume that such a habitat as it is now only sustains certain and specific types of wildlife. It certainly wouldn't be conducive to much of the native bird species, let alone the native mammals.

they are planting in Scotland, deer would be a big problem in Wicklow.

http://treesforlife.org.uk/forest/

Hooleyo

When you look at it like this, Wicklow National Park is a sick and unsustainable habitat. Anyone who has climbed Mullaghcleevaun can see the erosion going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpLP7Dnbedw

robp

Demetrius Clever Repression wrote: »

robp wrote: »

It maybe ecological rich but its not natural. Its a farmscape which is fine but doesn't really tie with our the National Park  IUCN Category II designation.

I'm talking upland and moorland habitats , not farmland.

I would argue the average Irish uplands is unnaturally open and not in the spirit of IUCN Category II designation.

recedite

I agree with the OP. A classic example would be a trip from Dublin to Laragh/Glendalough over the Sally Gap. You would be travelling over a relatively barren landscape that is the result of deforestation centuries ago, and worked out bogs more recently. Very little wildlife except sika deer and a few larks.
As for why these areas are not restored to their former glory, I think its simply a lack of imagination. The human lifespan is short in the grand scheme of things. Everyone alive today, including those who have the power to make these kind of decisions, has only ever known this area as a treeless landscape. It seems to be in its "normal" state.

recedite

cameramonkey wrote: »

they are planting in Scotland, deer would be a big problem in Wicklow.

More of a resource, I would say. I sometimes go into the Harbour Bar in Bray seafront for a pint and a deerburger. Very tasty

Hooleyo

recedite wrote: »

I agree with the OP. A classic example would be a trip from Dublin to Laragh/Glendalough over the Sally Gap. You would be travelling over a relatively barren landscape that is the result of deforestation centuries ago, and worked out bogs more recently. Very little wildlife except sika deer and a few larks.
As for why these areas are not restored to their former glory, I think its simply a lack of imagination. The human lifespan is short in the grand scheme of things. Everyone alive today, including those who have the power to make these kind of decisions, has only ever known this area as a treeless landscape. It seems to be in its "normal" state.

But surely there are plenty of wildlife "experts" in the National Park Service to undertake what should be very basic - creating a habitat.

Almost every species imaginable are in decline. We are encouraged to put bird boxes or ponds in our gardens to facilitate and attract wildlife. Yet here you have the largest tracts of desolation and "wet deserts" run by a wildlife agency and there is nothing proactive at all about creating habitats.

After looking at those rewilding videos its actually quite sickening the neglect going on.

magicbastarder

Hooleyo wrote: »

But surely there are plenty of wildlife "experts" in the National Park Service to undertake what should be very basic - creating a habitat.

i don't think the NPWS has plenty of staff, let alone plenty of experts who have enough time to do what you mention.

Capercaillie

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't think the NPWS has plenty of staff, let alone plenty of experts who have enough time to do what you mention.

No staff, no money, no resources.

In Ireland (like other Countries) we tend to complain about the lack of native forestry, habitat for flora/fauna. What needs to be done is for people to get out planting trees, creating habitats for endangered species! Rather than relying on other people to doi it. Do it yourself!!!

magicbastarder

Capercaillie wrote: »

Do it yourself!!!

big question is - on whose land!

Capercaillie

magicbastarder wrote: »

big question is - on whose land!

Buy your own land and do it!

Capercaillie

Capercaillie wrote: »

Buy your own land and do it!

Buy acre of land in Kerry for 4,000 euros. Manage it for endangered Natterkack toad. Get into NPWS scheme and earn some money to pay for it!

recedite

Even back gardens can be useful wildlife habitat.

But you can't beat a big area like a national park for providing a decent sized area of uninterrupted habitat. So its just a pity to see the bleakness of most of the Wicklow National park areas when they could/should be covered in oak forests.
Some of the place names give a tantalising glimpse into the past. Derry/darragh is common, usually meaning oak eg Glendarragh. Along the Sally Gap Military Road is Lough Ouler (from "iolar"=eagle, so eagle lake) and above Lough Bray is Eagle Crag. They were probably Golden Eagles, but possibly WTSE also. Sadly there would not be enough prey around now in the treeless landscape to support an eagle.

robp

Crazy how many missed opportunities there are.

A 1,787ac farm at Ballycroy, Bangor Erris in Co Mayo...its guide of €1.3m Euro. Incredibly cheap!
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/property/vast-mayo-farm-withdrawn-at-900000-35610786.html

Hooleyo

robp wrote: »

Crazy how many missed opportunities there are.

A 1,787ac farm at Ballycroy, Bangor Erris in Co Mayo...its guide of €1.3m Euro. Incredibly cheap!
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/property/vast-mayo-farm-withdrawn-at-900000-35610786.html

And perhaps could have been added to the Ballycroy National Park...

magicbastarder

sure there's an idea if i win the lotto this weekend, as i am planning to.