Car accident question

siobhan08

Hi

I had an accident a few days back.

I was driving along and approaching lights, Lights changed to orange and then red so I stopped.

A car then drove up the back of me and gave me a right smack.

My question is that by them time i broke and I came to a stop when I saw the lights change I was in the red box at the front of the lights for bikes. I was stationary when the car hit me. Speed limit on the road was 50/60 km.
Will being in the box make things complicated for me for insurance?
I didn't want to break the junction (Crossroads) so I stopped.

endacl

You were sitting in a stationary car. The other driver drove into you. Doesn't matter where you were.

punisher5112

siobhan08 wrote: »

Hi

I had an accident a few days back.

I was driving along and approaching lights, Lights changed to orange and then red so I stopped.

A car then drove up the back of me and gave me a right smack.

My question is that by them time i broke and I came to a stop when I saw the lights change I was in the red box at the front of the lights for bikes. I was stationary when the car hit me. Speed limit on the road was 50/60 km.
Will being in the box make things complicated for me for insurance?
I didn't want to break the junction (Crossroads) so I stopped.

No not an issue. On the day a guard could give a fine and believe its one penalty point for being over the 1st white stop line.

The car behind you obviously was too close and hit you so they are at fault unless it can be proven you planted on the brakes while lights were green or had no brake lights.

siobhan08

punisher5112 wrote: »

No not an issue. On the day a guard could give a fine and believe its one penalty point for being over the 1st white stop line.

The car behind you obviously was too close and hit you so they are at fault unless it can be proven you planted on the brakes while lights were green or had no brake lights.

We had moved the cars by the time the guards got there as per the instructions i received from the guard on the phone.

I broke when I saw orange, stopped and then smack. Was just a bit concerned as everyone knows an insurance company will try and get out of a claim if they can and thought this could be a cop out. Thankfully I have a strong car so not much damage. My body is in a worse shape than the car :mad::mad:

punisher5112

siobhan08 wrote: »

We had moved the cars by the time the guards got there as per the instructions i received from the guard on the phone.

I broke when I saw orange, stopped and then smack. Was just a bit concerned as everyone knows an insurance company will try and get out of a claim if they can and thought this could be a cop out. Thankfully I have a strong car so not much damage. My body is in a worse shape than the car :mad::mad:

Hopefully not too sore but look after yourself worry about car after.

Did you take a photo of car in position?
Car most likely got shunted forward anyway...

Don't worry about it they are at fault unfortunate for them.

greasepalm

Having good brakes and good tyres can help in some situations hoping you and car were checked out as unseen damage might not be visible to you.AS said you were stopped and got hit from behind so their problem for said issues.

siobhan08

punisher5112 wrote: »

Hopefully not too sore but look after yourself worry about car after.

Did you take a photo of car in position?
Car most likely got shunted forward anyway...

Don't worry about it they are at fault unfortunate for them.

Didnt take photo of them in the back of me as they had moved their car back by the time i got out of the car but have a picture of them behind each other and photos of the damage of both cars

greasepalm wrote: »

Having good brakes and good tyres can help in some situations hoping you and car were checked out as unseen damage might not be visible to you.AS said you were stopped and got hit from behind so their problem for said issues.

I've been checked but not the car. It's been on my drive since. i did drive it home afterwards. Waiting until I feel a wee bit better to sort that. Used to have smaller cars but glad I have since upgraded wouldn't like to think of the state of me and the car if I was still in my Micra

biko

siobhan08 wrote: »

Will being in the box make things complicated for me for insurance?

I would not think so.
The other driver saw the same traffic lights as you and should have anticipated you braking (particularly when they saw your brake lights). That you stopped in the red box is immaterial, in my opinion.

Ask your insurer..

NinjaTruncs

endacl wrote: »

You were sitting in a stationary car. The other driver drove into you. Doesn't matter where you were.

That's not 100% true, if the OP was found to have stopped unsafely and the car behind hits her, the car behind may not be entirely at fault.

Green doesn't mean go and Red doesn't mean stop, they mean Go and Stop if safe to do so. The OP hasn't said how she stopped, if she saw the orange light and slammed on the breaks without looking behind her she could be found to be partly at fault, a much more detailed explanation would need to be given to determine if she had any role to play in the accident.

That all said the person who hit her definitely carries most of the blame, and possibly all, as they should have been far enough behind to react regardless of what the OP did.

Edit: As pointed out by Isambard, Red does mean stop

Isambard

No Red means stop. Orange means stop if it's safe to do so. Red is an absolute.

OP saw Orange and then Red on approach and so stopped. Perhaps her anticipation should have been better and allowed her to stop before the line but the car who hit her is stlll to blame.

I don't believe Insurance Companies really do find reasons to get out of a valid claim.

Nervous Wreck

Isambard wrote: »

No Red means stop. Orange means stop if it's safe to do so. Red is an absolute.

Just to clarify, amber doesn't mean stop if it's safe to do so, it means stop unless it's unsafe to do so. That's an important distinction.

Isambard

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Just to clarify, amber doesn't mean stop if it's safe to do so, it means stop unless it's unsafe to do so. That's an important distinction.

I agree but I used the phrase in the post I replied to for clarity (I thought)

siobhan08

Isambard wrote: »

No Red means stop. Orange means stop if it's safe to do so. Red is an absolute.

OP saw Orange and then Red on approach and so stopped. Perhaps her anticipation should have been better and allowed her to stop before the line but the car who hit her is stlll to blame.

I don't believe Insurance Companies really do find reasons to get out of a valid claim.

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Just to clarify, amber doesn't mean stop if it's safe to do so, it means stop unless it's unsafe to do so. That's an important distinction.

Yes my anticipation could have been a little bit better to avoid the box.Lights where it happened change very quickly. My options were break the light and go into a crossroads when cars would have been coming from the right or stop. When I stopped I pretty much watched the car hit me in my rear view mirror.

I'm not even sure they broke properly as I couldn't see any break marks on the road

Isambard

you'll be fine, don't worry.

antodeco

Sure you could've been behind the line and the car behind pushed you over it anyway!

siobhan08

antodeco wrote: »

Sure you could've been behind the line and the car behind pushed you over it anyway!

probably could have been push a bit but I was pretty much fully in the box so doubt the car would have pushed me that far in

NinjaTruncs

Isambard wrote: »

No Red means stop. Orange means stop if it's safe to do so. Red is an absolute.

OP saw Orange and then Red on approach and so stopped. Perhaps her anticipation should have been better and allowed her to stop before the line but the car who hit her is stlll to blame.

I don't believe Insurance Companies really do find reasons to get out of a valid claim.

Hey yeah you're right about Red. However the way in which the OP stopped is still important, the face that she didn't stop before the line could suggest that she stopped unexpectedly for the car behind, not that that would absolve the car behind from blame but it may reduce their proportion of blame.

frozenfrozen

they were following too closely and or too quickly and or paying not enough attention

the proportion of the blame is 100% on the car who did the crashing into the stationary car

siobhan08

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Hey yeah you're right about Red. However the way in which the OP stopped is still important, the face that she didn't stop before the line could suggest that she stopped unexpectedly for the car behind, not that that would absolve the car behind from blame but it may reduce their proportion of blame.

I wouldn't say I stopped unexpectedly I was approaching a light that had turned to amber driver behind me should have been preparing to stop by leaving enough stopping distance.It was a duel carriageway in a city so people would not be tipping along slowly.It I remember rightly it changed from 60km to 50 km not much before where the crash happened. Car behind me saw the same Lights I did and If it was amber for me then it would have been red for them so they should have been expecting to stop not thinking the car in front is going to break a red light so they could too.

NinjaTruncs

I don't think this is your fault, as others have rightly said the other car was obviously too close behind you too stop in time, however they may have expected you to keep going through the amber light as from your description it seems like you reacted late to the light. I'd say the guy behind you fully intended to break the red and follow you.

I'm just pointing out that depending on how you stopped he, or his insurance company, could try to apportion some of the blame on you by saying you stopped unexpectedly, in that you didn't show signs of stopping for the amber light and only stopped at the last second.

siobhan08

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I don't think this is your fault, as others have rightly said the other car was obviously too close behind you too stop in time, however they may have expected you to keep going through the amber light as from your description it seems like you reacted late to the light. I'd say the guy behind you fully intended to break the red and follow you.

I'm just pointing out that depending on how you stopped he, or his insurance company, could try to apportion some of the blame on you by saying you stopped unexpectedly, in that you didn't show signs of stopping for the amber light and only stopped at the last second.

I never intended to break the light. I really wish I did and had done so I wouldn't feeling like crap now.

I know the road and know how fast the lights change so I knew I wouldn't get through on amber hence why applied the breaks and stopped. They clearly didn't know the lights change fast or bother to anticipate the fact that I would stop at the lights because they were too close and going too fast

grogi

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

That's not 100% true, if the OP was found to have stopped unsafely and the car behind hits her, the car behind may not be entirely at fault.

Green doesn't mean go and Red doesn't mean stop, they mean Go and Stop if safe to do so. The OP hasn't said how she stopped, if she saw the orange light and slammed on the breaks without looking behind her she could be found to be partly at fault, a much more detailed explanation would need to be given to determine if she had any role to play in the accident.

That all said the person who hit her definitely carries most of the blame, and possibly all, as they should have been far enough behind to react regardless of what the OP did.

Edit: As pointed out by Isambard, Red does mean stop

No, you are wrong. Green means go if safe, but red means stop. Period.

When rear ended it is entirely rear party fault, unless the stop was malicious.

grogi

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I don't think this is your fault, as others have rightly said the other car was obviously too close behind you too stop in time, however they may have expected you to keep going through the amber light as from your description it seems like you reacted late to the light. I'd say the guy behind you fully intended to break the red and follow you.

I'm just pointing out that depending on how you stopped he, or his insurance company, could try to apportion some of the blame on you by saying you stopped unexpectedly, in that you didn't show signs of stopping for the amber light and only stopped at the last second.

If the OP managed to stop at the lights, car behind was in much better position to stop as well. Regardless how late the OP stopped, the fault is solely and entirely on the other driver.

Under no circumstances I would accept any liability for this accident.

SCOOP 64

Agreed op should be ok insurance wise as other car hit op car, but on reading how it happened i wonder how many of us if we were driving would have ramped op as well.

goz83

Sounds like the driver behind the OP was a typical double light breaker; the first car just breaks the red light and the second car quickly follows. In this case, the first car stopped over the line of the red and the second car had no time to react, despite the OP saying she pretty much watched the other car drive into her.

siobhan08

grogi wrote: »

If the OP managed to stop at the lights, car behind was in much better position to stop as well. Regardless how late the OP stopped, the fault is solely and entirely on the other driver.

Under no circumstances I would accept any liability for this accident.

No intention of accepting liability for the accident. other driver has already accepted liability in a way as they were very apologetic

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Agreed op should be ok insurance wise as other car hit op car, but on reading how it happened i wonder how many of us if we were driving would have ramped op as well.

Well if that's the case then I guess people need to check how close and how fast hey are driving behind people behind lights to make sure they don't hit people like me.

goz83 wrote: »

Sounds like the driver behind the OP was a typical double light breaker; the first car just breaks the red light and the second car quickly follows. In this case, the first car stopped over the line of the red and the second car had no time to react, despite the OP saying she pretty much watched the other car drive into her.

I did watch the car hit me in my review mirror
I didn't break the red light I was stationary on red and behind the lights when they hit me, Although I was in the cycle box. I accept I did break wee bit late but if the driver behind me had stayed a stoppable distance behind me they would have had plenty of time to react.

kirving

I would say that the OP braked too hard and is partially liable for the accident. The OP clearly reacted very late, so late in fact that she could not stop in time before the line, and instead braked so late and so hard that she still ended up in the cyclist box (ie: past the while line). That to me is not great driving.

Now the car behind must have been travelling too close, and wasn't quite as reactive as the OP, and therefore will take most of the blame. There is driving to the letter of the law, and there is driving in a manner that takes other peoples poor (tailgating) driving into account.


Not the law as such, but below from the rules of the road. Gotta pick either one or the other in that situation.

Rules of the Road: wrote:

Never ever:

• Break a red light or speed to allow emergency service vehicles to pass
  you unless you’re directed to do so by the Gardaí or emergency service
  personnel.
• Brake suddenly or block the road

amcalester

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I would say that the OP braked too hard and is partially liable for the accident. The OP clearly reacted very late, so late in fact that she could not stop in time before the line, and instead braked so late and so hard that she still ended up in the cyclist box (ie: past the while line). That to me is not great driving.

Now the car behind must have been travelling too close, and wasn't quite as reactive as the OP, and therefore will take most of the blame. There is driving to the letter of the law, and there is driving in a manner that takes other peoples poor (tailgating) driving into account.


Not the law as such, but below from the rules of the road. Gotta pick either one or the other in that situation.

It doesn't matter how late the OP may have reacted. The car behind should have been preparing to stop, they werent and they ran into the back of a stationary car.

No way the insurance company is going to fight a claim. They'll probably throw money at the op to settle as quick as possible.

TheQuietFella

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Just to clarify, amber doesn't mean stop if it's safe to do so, it means stop unless it's unsafe to do so. That's an important distinction.

Jesus Christ!!!!

No it doesn't! It means that you may proceed but only if it's safe to do so!

beechwood55

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Jesus Christ!!!!

No it doesn't! It means that you may proceed but only if it's safe to do so!

This is from the AA website.

When the light is amber you cannot go beyond the traffic light stop line or light itself in the absence of a line. ONLY if you are so close to the line/traffic light when the light in question turns amber that it would be unsafe to bring your vehicle to a stop can you continue through an amber light.

So you only go through the amber light if it is unsafe to do otherwise.

beechwood55

And just to back that up, when my son was taking driving lessons last year the driving instructor drummed into him that you always always stop when the light goes amber. The only reason you would go through is if a car was so close behind you that it would hit you if you stopped.

kirving

siobhan08 wrote: »

I didn't break the red light I was stationary on red and behind the lights when they hit me, Although I was in the cycle box.

Technically, you did break the red light, as the thick white line before the cycle box is the stop line. From the other car's point of view, you braked unexpectedly because there was clearly no chance of you stopping in time, but tried to anyway.

The car begind was mostly in the wrong, but jamming on the brakes for any other reason than to avoid a collision isn't allowed either.

siobhan08

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Technically, you did break the red light, as the thick white line before the cycle box is the stop line. From the other car's point of view, you braked unexpectedly because there was clearly no chance of you stopping in time, but tried to anyway.

The car begind was mostly in the wrong, but jamming on the brakes for any other reason than to avoid a collision isn't allowed either.

I didn't jam on the brakes, I was at a complete stop and the handbrake on and car in neutral when I was hit.

I didn't brake unexpectedly.They saw the same lights as me so they should have been expecting me to stop at the lights.

If it was amber for me it would have been red for them so even If i had got through on amber, if they had followed they would have been totally breaking the red. They had friends/family in the car with them so more than likely chatting away and not paying full attention to what was going on ahead of them.

punisher5112

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Technically, you did break the red light, as the thick white line before the cycle box is the stop line. From the other car's point of view, you braked unexpectedly because there was clearly no chance of you stopping in time, but tried to anyway.

The car begind was mostly in the wrong, but jamming on the brakes for any other reason than to avoid a collision isn't allowed either.

Been gone through if they planted on the brakes one should still be far enough away to stop.

If they didn't have brake lights then there would be an issue for driver in front as that could be shown to be a cause.

If over the line only one interested are a cop that wants to collect some revenue for overtime.

Sue Pa Key Pa

I have never seen an insurer dispute a rear end accident. Slam dunk circumstances in my experience

goz83

siobhan08 wrote: »

I didn't jam on the brakes, I was at a complete stop and the handbrake on and car in neutral when I was hit.

I didn't brake unexpectedly.They saw the same lights as me so they should have been expecting me to stop at the lights.

If it was amber for me it would have been red for them so even If i had got through on amber, if they had followed they would have been totally breaking the red. They had friends/family in the car with them so more than likely chatting away and not paying full attention to what was going on ahead of them.

Ah now come on. The driver behind will most certainly be the one blamed and is mostly, technically responsible for not keeping a proper distance. However, I find it hard to accept that you found the time to get into neutral and apply the handbrake if you had hit the brakes so late. This would suggets that the other driver was fair distance away, but failed to see your car at all, which is in my mind, less likely. It's not only speculation what the other driver was/wasn't doing, it's also irrelevant. There was poor driving on both sides.

BeardySi

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Jesus Christ!!!!

No it doesn't! It means that you may proceed but only if it's safe to do so!

Say all the prayers you like, but it means you MUST STOP unless it's unsafe to do so...

13.
(2) A driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows an amber light while no other traffic light lamp (immediately above or below) shows any light, shall not proceed beyond the stop line at that light (or, if there is no such stop line, beyond the light) save when the vehicle is so close to the stop line when the amber light shows that the vehicle cannot safely be halted before crossing the stop line.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print

RayCun

and this is why so many drivers break the lights every day

Green means Go
Orange means Go Faster
Red means Stop If You Must
:rolleyes: