Brand new car leaking diesel - fire hazard?

Redtop

I picked up a brand new car 3 days ago. The manufacturer & dealer shall remain anonymous until I investigate this further. I noticed an unusual smell shortly after driving it - like an oily smell. There were wet patches under the car and on my driveway - not the type you get with A/C condensation - it was definitely more than water - it was oily. After just 2 days driving (290 Km), I looked under the car while she was running and noticed a rubber seal about 4 inches in diameter hanging down from behind the front axle. There was diesel seriously dripping down onto the ground. That's when I noticed the fuel gauge was unusually low. I turned off the car and rang the Dealer Service Dept. They recommended I call the 1 800 Manufacturer Recovery. The car was taken back to the dealer. I am waiting for a report. Thinking back, I now realise how serious this could have been, if I had continued driving and the leaking diesel could have come in contact with the hot exhaust. It could have been a potential Fire Hazard. Even looking at the amount of diesel on the ground, if anyone dropped a cigarette, it could have lit up with serious consequences. Apart from getting the replacement car, do I have any other recourse with either the dealer or manufacturer ? Should I seek legal advise ?

corglass

Legal advise for what? A claim? The whole country is gone claim obsessed. The manufacture has agreed to sort the issue. You should ask for a courtesy car during the repair. Other than that, just move on.

Diesel won't ignite by a cigarette. Even if you drop a match onto diesel it'll put out the flame.

Donal55

Id say the OP could have PTSD and should seek the services of Whiplash Harry Solicitors.

Toyotafanboi

The car will be repaired and given back to you and that'll be the end of it.

It's obviously not ideal on a brand new car but a diesel leak was unlikely to cause a fire. The warranty is there to cover manufacturing defects like this and that's what it's doing.

As a customer service gesture you could ask the dealer for discount off a service or a full tank or whatever as they'll want you to be happy but that'll be as far as compo goes.

Zoo4m8

A rubber seal four inches in diameter hanging down? I think I'd be waiting for the report before coming to any conclusions.
Diesel has a very low flash point compared to petrol, drop a fag in a pool of diesel and it just goes out, the fumes don't ignite etc etc. A potential fire hazard certainly but imho a very low one.
Could be something that happened in pre delivery or transport, a sh*t happens incident..a friend had the electronic handbrake stick on with a brand new car recently leaving him stranded, got it sorted and moved on, if I were you that's what I'd do..

biko

I suggest you wait for the car to be returned and the mechanic's report.

Ubbquittious

Diesel is fierce hard to light. Usually you have to soak an additional material in it like a carpet or a sheet of paper just to get it to burn. It won't burn from the ground like petrol. I wonder what kids do these days growing up, obviously not being a pyro like me

Cee-Jay-Cee

You should sue, its the done thing these days. If you had accidentally parked on top of a bale of hay which was on fire then the dripping diesel would have made the fire worse and burned you and your car and your family. That's bound to be worth €25k. Ring your solicitor who will gladly offer you advise on how to get back at the pesky dealer.

colm_mcm

Ah now, it's all very well having a "$hit happens" attitude, but this is a new car, which supposedly went through quality checks at the factory, and had a pre delivery inspection at the dealer/distributor. Now granted a detached pipe isn't usually on the PDI list, you can surely see how the OP would have serious doubts about the new car now.

Blazer

man If I was born today I'd probably be a millionaire from claims alone.
At 8 I ran straight through a restaurant window about 10x10 feet and make absolute bits of its. No signage was on the window so it was easy to assume it was an open door. Now you see plenty of signage on windows to stop morons from running through them.
Then I was split open by a neighbours child and left with a scar on my head. I only see now as I'm going bald
Another time the bar I worked in the owner's son slammed a knife blade down on my knee and split it wide open..more stitches...complete accident as we were clowning around and another scar.
To see what people are getting from claims today is a complete and utter disgrace.
Bang my knee in a restaurant? 20K thank you..get the fcuk out of here.

colm_mcm

The OP never said anything about a claim to be fair, they quite rightly want to see what their options are.

xabi

If something as important as a fuel leak was missed at inspection you have to wonder what else on the car was missed.

Redtop

I am shocked at the many references to Compo. I never suggested Compo. I was looking for legal advise to confirm my rights as a consumer. I just want my new car back 100% but I have lost confidence in the manufacturer and dealer, considering I was handed the keys to a brand new 35,000 Euro car which started leaking diesel from the start. How can I be sure it will be fixed properly ? How can I be sure there is no other underlying damage due to the corrosive nature of Diesel that would devalue it when it comes to trading it in later. What else did they miss ? I was thinking of requesting another brand new car or pulling out completely and asking for my money back, as it looks like I was sold a Lemon - nothing more - no Compo. The car was clearly faulty from the start.

Redtop

This has no relevance to my OP. Who mentioned Compo ?

mfceiling

Redtop wrote: »

I am shocked at the many references to Compo. I never suggested Compo. I was looking for legal advise to confirm my rights as a consumer. I just want my new car back 100% but I have lost confidence in the manufacturer and dealer, considering I was handed the keys to a brand new 35,000 Euro car which started leaking diesel from the start. How can I be sure it will be fixed properly ? How can I be sure there is no other underlying damage due to the corrosive nature of Diesel that would devalue it when it comes to trading it in later. What else did they miss ? I was thinking of requesting another brand new car or pulling out completely and asking for my money back, as it looks like I was sold a Lemon - nothing more - no Compo. The car was clearly faulty from the start.

To be fair it's sent back to be fixed. I'd say they'll give it a fairly good going over. I wouldn't stress too much...sh*t happens. My wife got a new A5 a few years ago and the electronic handbrake started messing about. Didn't make us want to send the car back.

bucketybuck

xabi wrote: »

If something as important as a fuel leak was missed at inspection you have to wonder what else on the car was missed.

It wasn't missed, unless you think a fuel leak as clearly obvious as the OP describes was missed not only during the PDI but also during the entire time the vehicle was sitting at the dealer leaking fuel.

Something has failed after an extended drive, its most likely a manufacturing defect and while its not romantic and the OP can be disappointed, its not the end of the world either. The dealer/manufacturer should identify and repair the fault and there should be negligible effect to the vehicle going forward.

Beyond that, what more is there to say?

Cee-Jay-Cee

Redtop wrote: »

I am shocked at the many references to Compo. I never suggested Compo. I was looking for legal advise to confirm my rights as a consumer. I just want my new car back 100% but I have lost confidence in the manufacturer and dealer, considering I was handed the keys to a brand new 35,000 Euro car which started leaking diesel from the start. How can I be sure it will be fixed properly ? How can I be sure there is no other underlying damage due to the corrosive nature of Diesel that would devalue it when it comes to trading it in later. What else did they miss ? I was thinking of requesting another brand new car or pulling out completely and asking for my money back, as it looks like I was sold a Lemon - nothing more - no Compo. The car was clearly faulty from the start.

Under consumer law you won't get a new car or a refund for that matter. The dealer is entitled to fix the problem and considering it's a simple leaking valve or pipe then shouldn't be too hard to sort 100%. You could only look for a replacement car or refund if there was a litany of problems which either kept recurring and/or were not properly repaired by the dealer.

bucketybuck

Redtop wrote: »

I have lost confidence in the manufacturer and dealer, considering I was handed the keys to a brand new 35,000 Euro car which started leaking diesel from the start. How can I be sure it will be fixed properly ? How can I be sure there is no other underlying damage due to the corrosive nature of Diesel that would devalue it when it comes to trading it in later. What else did they miss ? I was thinking of requesting another brand new car or pulling out completely and asking for my money back, as it looks like I was sold a Lemon - nothing more - no Compo. The car was clearly faulty from the start.

You are completely overreacting.

elperello

The car will be repaired by a qualified mechanic and will probably be better than new when you get it back.
You probably should request some gesture to cover your inconvenience, loss of diesel and the mess on the driveway.

JohnBoy26

Redtop wrote: »

I am shocked at the many references to Compo. I never suggested Compo. I was looking for legal advise to confirm my rights as a consumer. I just want my new car back 100% but I have lost confidence in the manufacturer and dealer, considering I was handed the keys to a brand new 35,000 Euro car which started leaking diesel from the start. How can I be sure it will be fixed properly ? How can I be sure there is no other underlying damage due to the corrosive nature of Diesel that would devalue it when it comes to trading it in later. What else did they miss ? I was thinking of requesting another brand new car or pulling out completely and asking for my money back, as it looks like I was sold a Lemon - nothing more - no Compo. The car was clearly faulty from the start.

Aahh come on, diesel is not corrosive, if anything it's anti corrosive. If there is any diesel left over on the underbody it will either be washed off or dried off over time.

I doubt if their will be any diesel left over on the underbody though and that the car will be returned to you 100%

I know its an annoying thing to happen on a brand new car but it's not a big problem and not one that justifies a refund or a replacement.

Cordell

Diesel is actually easier than petrol to ignite when spayed on a hot surface, like the exhaust components. Apart from that, you can drop a lit match in a bucket of diesel, nothing will happen (don't try it, though).

godtabh

Redtop wrote: »

I am shocked at the many references to Compo. I never suggested Compo. I was looking for legal advise to confirm my rights as a consumer. I just want my new car back 100% but I have lost confidence in the manufacturer and dealer, considering I was handed the keys to a brand new 35,000 Euro car which started leaking diesel from the start. How can I be sure it will be fixed properly ? How can I be sure there is no other underlying damage due to the corrosive nature of Diesel that would devalue it when it comes to trading it in later. What else did they miss ? I was thinking of requesting another brand new car or pulling out completely and asking for my money back, as it looks like I was sold a Lemon - nothing more - no Compo. The car was clearly faulty from the start.

Back in the day a friend of mine bought a brand new saab 95. Coming back along the motorway the engine seized. It had a handful of miles.

Saab gave him a brand new car.

I dont think your situation is as extreme. Let them sorted and then see.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Diesel is actually easier than petrol to ignite when spayed on a hot surface, like the exhaust components. Apart from that, you can drop a lit match in a bucket of diesel, nothing will happen (don't try it, though).

When we were kids one of the neighbors dropped a match into the kerosene tank at his house.
He had his face up to the hole looking in and nothing happened.
he said the match was lit and floating on the surface.

What a fool.
We lost a lot of eyebrows that summer

bucketybuck

Cordell wrote: »

Diesel is actually easier than petrol to ignite when spayed on a hot surface, like the exhaust components. Apart from that, you can drop a lit match in a bucket of diesel, nothing will happen (don't try it, though).

We once had an insurance assessor trying to claim that a fuel leak from injector pipes had caused a fire at the exhaust system that destroyed a waste vehicle. It hadn't, because the pipes hadn't been leaking at the time and we could prove that, but as part of a demonstration we ran the vehicle to temperature, then loosened various pipes and let fuel leak out beside the silencer and flexi pipes.

The temp in those exhausts run from about 400 to 600 degrees depending on conditions but of course there was no big fireball from some diesel dropping down on it, it just doesn't happen as easily as that.

Cordell

A diesel's DPF can run in excess of 600 degrees, diesel auto ignites at just above 200, so it can definitely happen. Of course that it's not going to be like in the movies, either Hollywood or Bollywood kind , but there are cases like the early Insignias that will leak power steering fluid over the exhaust and catch fire: http://www.rte.ie/tv/theconsumershow/opel.html.
But usually the fuel lines are routed away from the hot exhaust components, so probably there was no real risk on the OPs car.

MetzgerMeister

Even if you drop a lit cigarette into a bucket of petrol it won't ignite. The petrol will just quench it. You've been watching too many action films

xabi

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Even if you drop a lit cigarette into a bucket of petrol it won't ignite. The petrol will just quench it. You've been watching too many action films

Don't try this at home kids

ted1

Are they going to power wash your drive way?

Toyotafanboi

ted1 wrote: »

Are they going to power wash your drive way?

I'd say if you ask them, they would.

Del2005

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Even if you drop a lit cigarette into a bucket of petrol it won't ignite. The petrol will just quench it. You've been watching too many action films

Getting past the fumes, which do ignite, is the difficult bit though.

ScumLord

This is a cool video on the different types of fuel.

People have to be reasonable when it comes to faults. Companies can't completely eliminate manufacturing faults, there are thousands of them that are even out of the control of the company assembling the car, it could be that there was an issue when forging metal and that got carried through the manufacturing process unseen until the part was stressed by the customer. All manufacturers can really do is reduce manufacturing faults and fix the ones that happen to customers. If the customer service is good it's going to be nothing more than an inconvenience.

You could chance your arm and get some small things like foot well mats as a little compensation but I wouldn't hold my breath. It's likely the error has eroded the profits the company made on the car. So they are suffering because of this error.

MetzgerMeister

So basically what you're saying is that it's ok for car manufacturers to sell something that could cause a death due to their negligence

coolbeans

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

So basically what you're saying is that it's ok for car manufacturers to sell something that could cause a death due to their negligence

That's a total overreaction to the situation.

MetzgerMeister

coolbeans wrote: »

That's a total overreaction to the situation.

OK, what would you call a fire hazard in a car?

colm_mcm

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

OK, what would you call a fire hazard in a car?

An Opel badge?

ScumLord

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

So basically what you're saying is that it's ok for car manufacturers to sell something that could cause a death due to their negligence

No, I'm saying that with the best of intentions sometimes faults make it through. Companies make huge efforts to eliminate those errors, there's a rule in product design, fix the problem in design it costs €10, fix the problem during production it costs €10,000, fix the problem after it's made it to the customer it costs €100,000 and more. These errors eventually erode any profits, companies don't want them to happen.

But that doesn't mean they can completely eliminate the possibility that there's going to be an unforeseen problem. Especially on new technology that's evolving daily and especially when they don't actually manufacture all the parts in house. But they will go above and beyond to try and eliminate them.

This also wasn't a fire hazard. Not in a diesel.

tossy

That's a good video, your man is a nut job lol

bucketybuck

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

So basically what you're saying is that it's ok for car manufacturers to sell something that could cause a death due to their negligence

That post is so willfully ignorant that I am amazed that you are a moderator on a motoring forum, I really am.

tossy

bucketybuck wrote: »

That post is so willfully ignorant that I am amazed that you are a moderator on a motoring forum, I really am.

...but he is a mod and a good one at that. Isn't it a bit naive to expect a mod to be some sort of higher being incapable of ignorant comments I mean he's just a motoring enthusiast like you.. except he's volunteered his own time to help out a little further than you

bucketybuck

tossy wrote: »

...but he is a mod and a good one at that. Isn't it a bit naive to expect a mod to be some sort of higher being incapable of ignorant comments I mean he's just a motoring enthusiast like you.. except he's volunteered his own time to help out a little further than you

I'd expect him not to misrepresent another posters words and to understand that it isn't necessarily negligence if a piece of equipment with over 30,000 different components suffers a manufacturing defect when stressed at 90km/h+.

How did we get from a basic fuel leak to emotive language such as a manufacturer causing death by negligence? I'd expect better than that.

tossy

bucketybuck wrote: »

How did we get from a basic fuel leak to emotive language such as a manufacturer causing death by negligence?

Because boards

MetzgerMeister

ScumLord wrote: »

No, I'm saying that with the best of intentions sometimes faults make it through. Companies make huge efforts to eliminate those errors, there's a rule in product design, fix the problem in design it costs €10, fix the problem during production it costs €10,000, fix the problem after it's made it to the customer it costs €100,000 and more. These errors eventually erode any profits, companies don't want them to happen.

But that doesn't mean they can completely eliminate the possibility that there's going to be an unforeseen problem. Especially on new technology that's evolving daily and especially when they don't actually manufacture all the parts in house. But they will go above and beyond to try and eliminate them.

This also wasn't a fire hazard. Not in a diesel.

Now I see what you meant

bucketybuck wrote: »

That post is so willfully ignorant that I am amazed that you are a moderator on a motoring forum, I really am.

So because I'm a mod I'm not allowed be human and take someone up a different way (admittedly the wrong way) to others?

hurikane

You should of put a match to it OP. I would have set it a blaze, let the handbrake off and let it off down the road. Car is no good now, it'll never be 100%

Cheensbo

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

So because I'm a mod I'm not allowed be human and take someone up a different way (admittedly the wrong way) to others?

That's the crux of it aye, I thought you lads were infallible..


or is that inflammable??



/coat

jay48

Maybe it's not going to go up in a ball of flames but depending on how bad the leak was you've the danger of diesel covering the rear tyres or making the road dangerous for cyclists / motorbikes . If it was me I'd be pissed but having said that , let them fix it and move on .

JohnBoy26

jay48 wrote: »

Maybe it's not going to go up in a ball of flames but depending on how bad the leak was you've the danger of diesel covering the rear tyres or making the road dangerous for cyclists / motorbikes . If it was me I'd be pissed but having said that , let them fix it and move on .

The chances of it hitting the rear tyres is extremely slim

Nonoperational

Sometimes in machines things happen and there's not much we can do about it. You were lucky. You deserve to have it fixed with no inconvenience to yourself and possibly a little sweetner.

Then go an enjoy the car. What is it?

melloa

jay48 wrote: »

Maybe it's not going to go up in a ball of flames but depending on how bad the leak was you've the danger of diesel covering the rear tyres or making the road dangerous for cyclists / motorbikes . If it was me I'd be pissed but having said that , let them fix it and move on .

that was my first thought aswell, a 290 kilometer trail of diesel

Wheeliebin30

Jesus. Some people in this thread best stay out of petrol stations what with petrol and diesel on the ground they might spontaneously combust.

Noveight

The folks Tucsan started leaking diesel within a month of they collecting it. Arranged to drop it back to the dealers and it was fixed within 2-3 hours if I remember right.