Mains Electric Fence

Surfn

what type of cable do i use as a lead out from the fencer itself.
previous ive been using grey electrical wire that has a copper strand, but i think this is wrong although it does work.
where can i buy cable i need online
cheers

patsy_mccabe

Use the insulated steel cable. All farm stores have it.

kk.man

Surfn wrote: »

what type of cable do i use as a lead out from the fencer itself.
previous ive been using grey electrical wire that has a copper strand, but i think this is wrong although it does work.
where can i buy cable i need online
cheers

Copper is a conductor...should never be used in electric fencing

Muckit

I'm relocating my fencer unit for this year and bought a 50m roll of Gallagher stuff for €40 in local hardware. It's double insulated 2.5mm cable. I don't think you can get smaller length rolls. But you wouldn't feel using it if you have to bring it out any distance from a shed to the fence or if you have to sort out ground rods as well. There is cheaper stuff out there, it'II be more flexible and the quality of the plastic sheathing will be crap. You'II see the difference if you try paring off the end with a Stanley knife. Gallagher stuff is quality.

https://www.coopsuperstores.ie/Farming/Farm-Hardware--Equipment/Fencing/Fencing-Accessories/Gallagher-Leadout-Cable-25mm-50m-12g-0761077

Surfn

Muckit wrote: »

I'm relocating my fencer unit for this year and bought a 50m roll of Gallagher stuff for €40 in local hardware. It's double insulated 2.5mm cable. I don't think you can get smaller length rolls. But you wouldn't feel using it if you have to bring it out any distance from a shed to the fence or if you have to sort out ground rods as well. There is cheaper stuff out there, it'II be more flexible and the quality of the plastic sheathing will be crap. You'II see the difference if you try paring off the end with a Stanley knife. Gallagher stuff is quality.

https://www.coopsuperstores.ie/Farming/Farm-Hardware--Equipment/Fencing/Fencing-Accessories/Gallagher-Leadout-Cable-25mm-50m-12g-0761077

can Gallagher Undergate Cable 25M 1.6mm be used as a leadout aswell
https://www.coopsuperstores.ie/Farming/Farm-Hardware--Equipment/Fencing/Fencing-Accessories/Gallagher-Undergate-Cable-25m-16mm-0761030

Muckit

Yes it should be good enough if you are not powering a big amount of ground and have a small fence unit.

Count Mondego

kk.man wrote: »

Copper is a conductor...should never be used in electric fencing

Aren't all metals conductors? Thought the problem with copper was that it oxides where it is exposed and loses it's conductivity.

pedigree 6

Count Mondego wrote: »

Aren't all metals conductors? Thought the problem with copper was that it oxides where it is exposed and loses it's conductivity.

Yep that's it.
Conductivity means the ability of a material or substance to move a charge from one point to another. The better the conductivity the more electricity or charge can pass through it.

Even air has a conductivity and that's why the longer the fence the more of a draw it takes or another way of putting it, the fencer unit needs a large earth to counteract the draw from the long fence.

patsy_mccabe

I think the bigger earth bar for a longer fence has to do more with the distance the current has to travel back to the earth bar. If the animal gets shocked near the earth bar, not a problem, a long way away and the conductivity through the soil gets harder especially if soil is dry.

pedigree 6

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I think the bigger earth bar for a longer fence has to do more with the distance the current has to travel back to the earth bar. If the animal gets shocked near the earth bar, not a problem, a long way away and the conductivity through the soil gets harder especially if soil is dry.

Yea out in Oz or dry countries they have two fence wires. One is the live wire and one is the earth wire connected to a strong earth in the ground from the fencer.
So the theory and workings of it is no matter even if they were standing on a rubber mat that the animal touches the two wires and the current then comes from the live wire into the animal and exits into the earth wire.
Rather than here with one live wire that the current from the live wire goes into the animal and exits the animal through its feet and then travels back to the earth from the fencer through the ground.

Count Mondego

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Rather than here with one live wire that the current from the live wire goes into the animal and exits the animal through its feet and then travels back to the earth from the fencer through the ground.

I've never understood how that works. If an animal is a half mile away, the shock will travel across the half mile of ground to get back to the earth bar? Even writing that I feel stupid.

pedigree 6

Count Mondego wrote: »

I've never understood how that works. If an animal is a half mile away, the shock will travel across the half mile of ground to get back to the earth bar? Even writing that I feel stupid.

The way I understand it is electricity (and the pulse from the fencer) is a positive charge and the whole planet earth to it's core is a negative charge.
The positive charge always wants to equal out and become neutral so will seek out and travel to the negative charge.
The earth from the fencer taps into the whole negative charge from the earth and when you or an animal touches the fence wire, you by standing on the ground provide a pathway for the positive charge to reach the negative charge in the earth. But as patsy says if the ground you're standing on is dry the positive charge from the fence wire finds it harder to reach the negative charge of the whole planet earth and molten core and you may not even get a shock because that pathway is not there.

And here's the kicker too. The earth of the fencer itself has to have more contact with the negative charge of the planet earth coming from it's molten core than the fence wire loosing some positive charge through the air to the ground (more moisture in the air more conductivity) and yourself touching the fence making another pathway for charge to be lost, for the fencer to be working at maximum efficiency.

Edit: or another way of putting it you and the fencer are both tapping into the same earth (negative charge).

patsy_mccabe

When you think about it the current travels out half a mile anyway through the wire.

pedigree 6

Actually a good idea for anyone setting up a fencer and earth is to touch the fence wire with some spare earth bars (lay them against the wire and ground) and then put your hand on the earth of the fencer.
If you can feel a shock drive down more earth bars until the shock is gone.

That way you give the fencer some reserve earth for when an animal touches the fence.

st1979

pedigree 6 wrote:

Actually a good idea for anyone setting up a fencer and earth is to touch the fence wire with some spare earth bars (lay them against the wire and ground) and then put your hand on the earth of the fencer. If you can feel a shock drive down more earth bars until the shock is gone.

I would prefer a system that doesn't require me putting my hand on a fence.

pedigree 6

st1979 wrote: »

I would prefer a system that doesn't require me putting my hand on a fence.

No hand on fence.
Hand on earth bars.:p

That's the bush test.

Maybe I should have worded it better.
Lay earth bars on to the fence wire to resemble an animal touching the fence and then check the earths of the fencer for a current. Either with your hand or a fence tester if you want. Shock will be very low anyway and if current present, drive down more earth bars and connect up until current is gone.

Surfn

probably stupid question here, do you have the earth rod/rods just below the surface of the ground or sticking up a little

Muckit

I wouldn't get too caught up on this detail. Personal preference. Once no one
is going to be tripping over them I like to leave them over ground so that it's easy to check the connections.

I see in the green cert book (Teagasc) they recommend digging a shallow trench and burying the cables and the connections. But they recommend taping the connections with denso tape first to make them water tight. I don't know many that would go to this bother.

patsy_mccabe

Unless you are going a serious distance with the fence, there's little concern about earths in Ireland. There's so much water about most of the time, you'd hardly need an earth at all.
The high tensile cables near us, can be heard hissing on a wet damp day here.:D

orm0nd

Muckit wrote: »

I wouldn't get too caught up on this detail. Personal preference. Once no one
is going to be tripping over them I like to leave them over ground so that it's easy to check the connections.

I see in the green cert book (Teagasc) they recommend digging a shallow trench and burying the cables and the connections. But they recommend taping the connections with denso tape first to make them water tight. I don't know many that would go to this bother.

I would & did.

Also we're running 5 earth bars with no joints .i.e we just bared the insulation from the wire and looped it in the clamp.
In the unlikey event of corrosion on a joint this will ensure continuity.

kowtow

Muckit wrote: »

I see in the green cert book (Teagasc) they recommend digging a shallow trench and burying the cables and the connections. But they recommend taping the connections with denso tape first to make them water tight. I don't know many that would go to this bother.

Ah sure you probably don't use the little blue plastic sleeves to hold tuck in the spare wire end behind the gripple either?

Surfn

how do you terminate the live lead out from the fencer unit for connecting to the fence itself, do i use a crocodile clip?

patsy_mccabe

Just wind it around 3 or 4 times. You could also use an isolation switch. I did this and find it fierce handy.

cute geoge

Is there any brand of polywire that ye lads find lasts longer .I mostly buy a couple of new rolls of gallagher turbo wire every spring and be lucky to see me trough summer as strip graze twice daily .I think the quality in the expensive turbo poly wire has deteriorated in past few years

The part time boy

cute geoge wrote: »

Is there any brand of polywire that ye lads find lasts longer .I mostly buy a couple of new rolls of gallagher turbo wire every spring and be lucky to see me trough summer as strip graze twice daily .I think the quality in the expensive turbo poly wire has deteriorated in past few years

Do you get the strong one with red wire in it

cute geoge

The part time boy wrote: »

Do you get the strong one with red wire in it

Thats the one but i find the twist comes out it and lets you with 3 strands then and gets tangled .
Is this the best out there still as it definitely it not as good as it used to be

The part time boy

I normal find it good. But as you say it is got some last year and was moving it somewhere this year and it kept braking

Surfn

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Just wind it around 3 or 4 times. You could also use an isolation switch. I did this and find it fierce handy.

that does sound handy alright

pedigree 6

I see Gallagher's is now selling Bentonite.

http://www.gallagherireland.com/fence_component.aspx?mktprodid=4742

The addition of salt to the Bentonite increases the soil pH and increases the conductivity of the soil while the Bentonite clay keeps the soil damp between the earths also increasing conductivity.

Timmaay

36 hr blocks... Problem solved ha

Surfn

is it ok to run the lead out cable and earth cable in the same poly pipe, where my earth and where my fence starts is about 5 meters from the shed.

Muckit

I wouldn't like to and I doubt it'd be good practice. For the sake of another few meters of pipe, I'd keep them as separate as possible. If ever a nick came in one insulation or just dampness etc in the pipe, you could end up having no fence. The nearest my earth and ground cables are is at the point where they attach to fencer terminals.

K.G.

Whats the best location for an earth.rock is never far away here.thinking of relocating the fencer unit

Muckit

The wettest hole you can find.... seriously. Easy enough found around here!

TPF2012

Hi. I need a new battery fencer, but I also am considering putting a mains fencer in sometime. Looking at the Pel 403, it is a dual battery/mains, what are the opinions on this model?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Muckit wrote: »

The wettest hole you can find.... seriously. Easy enough found around here!

It would take a fair few rolls of cable to get from KGs place up to you, I'd say, Muckit:D

pedigree 6

K.G. wrote: »

Whats the best location for an earth.rock is never far away here.thinking of relocating the fencer unit

More here on earthing and the "Super Earthing Kit".

Stainless steel does seem to be the best idea for an earth (it would deal with corrosion of galvanise anyway) and still be steel the same as the earth wire.

A few more then.

And just for kicks but also informative.

The part time boy

TPF2012 wrote: »

Hi. I need a new battery fencer, but I also am considering putting a mains fencer in sometime. Looking at the Pel 403, it is a dual battery/mains, what are the opinions on this model?

I have two of them . I got them for battery fencer . There a brillent battery fencers as put them on tractor battery and they last a week and run a good area of them . I never actally used it on the mains

3 the square

any one got a Gallagher solar fence ???
whats the output like ??

iv got a small few acres to fence away for esb source

Muckit

No but l have a lacme solar fencer. They are a great job. It's one of the smaller models as only 10acre field. Put it out in spring and it'll do the season until winter. Important to bring it back as apart from theft, frost etc will feck the battery

manpaq

Hi Muckit. I am looking at getting a solar fencer to cover around 12 acres. I already have a LACME solar 300 which is great job but bit overkill for the 10acres I want to do now. What model did you get and where was best value?