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Since when is assault not serious?

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  • 29-03-2017 5:17pm
    #1
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,515 ✭✭✭✭
    M


    Shocked by this, I would have thought assault would be regarded as serious, the only crimes I could classify as more serious would be rape and murder.
    A DUBLIN FATHER of six who “hoodwinked” an 82-year-old woman with early onset dementia by taking €2,250 for roofing work he never carried out has avoided a jail term.


    John Connors (36) of Wyckham Avenue, Dundrum pleaded guilty at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to theft of €2,250 at the woman’s home in Carpenterstown, Dublin on 19 February, 2016.


    He has three previous convictions for assault and public order.

    Judge Martin Nolan sentenced Connors to three years in prison which he suspended in full on strict conditions. He said it was a serious crime as Connors had “hoodwinked and defrauded an elderly lady”.


    Judge Nolan accepted that Connors had paid the woman back, had expressed sincere remorse and didn’t have serious previous convictions before he said he didn’t deserve an immediate custodial sentence.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/john-connors-defrauded-3313434-Mar2017/


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    #2
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Nolan again. Unsurprising, unfortunately at this stage.


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    #3
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,214 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Depends on the nature of the assaults. You can assault somebody without touching them.


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    #4
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    There is a legal defination of serious and it usually applies to arrestable offences. Assault is not an arrestable offence.


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    #5
    Rakish Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Rakish Paddy


    Judge Martin Nolan has an utterly shocking history of allowing both violent and sexual crimes to go either unpunished entirely or punished only very minimally.

    He should at the very least refuse to hear cases of a violent or sexual nature, given his history.

    His sentencing (or lack thereof) makes a mockery of the victims of crime.

    I don't think there's any way that man should be allowed to continue sitting as a judge, but I don't think there's any mechanism to facilitate the removal of an incompetent judge.

    The most baffling thing of all is that Nolan is an ex-cop. You would think if any judge was going to be tough on crime it would be the ex-cop, but no.

    His record is extremely dangerous, as it effectively sends out the message that violent and sexual crime is not serious.


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    #6
    skankkuvhima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭skankkuvhima


    Two thread in two days? New record for Nolan.

    I often felt that if I committed a financial crime against the state I'd hate to come up against him but if I fancied a bit of violence I'd be trying my best to have him on my case.


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    #7
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Rakish Paddy wrote: »
    Judge Martin Nolan has an utterly shocking history of allowing both violent and sexual crimes to go either unpunished entirely or punished only very minimally.

    He should at the very least refuse to hear cases of a violent or sexual nature, given his history.

    His sentencing (or lack thereof) makes a mockery of the victims of crime.

    I don't think there's any way that man should be allowed to continue sitting as a judge, but I don't think there's any mechanism to facilitate the removal of an incompetent judge.

    The most baffling thing of all is that Nolan is an ex-cop. You would think if any judge was going to be tough on crime it would be the ex-cop, but no.

    His record is extremely dangerous, as it effectively sends out the message that violent and sexual crime is not serious.

    This will fall on deaf ears but

    - He does a lot of sentancing including cases he has not sat in on the substantive part of the case IIRC, that's not to say he won't have heard the victim impact statements etc.

    - Like all Judges he makes mistakes, more so though he has been contrained by legislation (which comes from Government).

    - There is a robust appeals process in place.

    - There is a mechanism to remove Judges it's in the Constitution.

    - Ireland as a policy is soft on crime, we don't have the prison spaces and sucessive govenerments have failded to increase the space.

    - Give what I've seen of your posts you have an unrealistic expectation of what level of punishment fits a particualr crime.


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    #8
    skankkuvhima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭skankkuvhima


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    This will fall on deaf ears but

    - He does a lot of sentancing including cases he has not sat in on the substantive part of the case IIRC, that's not to say he won;t have heard the victim impact statements etc.

    - Like all Judges he makes mistakes, more so though he has been contrained by legislation (which comes from Goverment).

    - There is a robust appeals process in place.

    - There is a mechanism to remove Judges it's in the Constitution.

    - Ireland as a policy is soft on crime, we don't have the prison spaces and sucessive govenerments have failded to increase the space.

    - Give what I've seen of your posts you have an unrealistic expectation of what level of punishment fits a particualr crime.

    The Nolan fan club is quick today.


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    #9
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    skankkuvhima wrote: »
    The Nolan fan club is quick today.

    Not as quick as the mindless tabloid club it seems.


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    #10
    Rakish Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Rakish Paddy


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Like all Judges he makes mistakes, more so though he has been contrained by legislation (which comes from Government).

    Making the odd mistake is one thing, but repeatedly handing out crazily lenient sentences, specifically for violent and sexual crimes, is a whole other kettle of ball games, and shows an appalling disregard for the victims of those crimes.


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    #11
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    skankkuvhima wrote: »
    The Nolan fan club is quick today.

    Judges are there to interpret and apply the law as it is set for them by the legislature. They are also there to protect your, and my, and all of our, pimply arse(s) should the State decide to play smack-down on you. We made a huge mistake that time with the referendum on judge's pay - well, I personally didn't, but you get the idea - but that's as-I-roved-out now.


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    #12
    diomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Connors. What are the chances?


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    #13
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Rakish Paddy wrote: »
    Making the odd mistake is one thing, but repeatedly handing out crazily lenient sentences, specifically for violent and sexual crimes, is a whole other kettle of ball games, and shows an appalling disregard for the victims of those crimes.

    I don't concede he is, in fact he patently is not. I'll leave it to you to keep highlighting his sentancing but no issues this week, but that aside, it doesn't matter who the Judge is, they cant put people in prison if there are no spaces. If it wasn't Nolan it's would be someone else doing the exact same thing. We have a top down policy of giving soft senatnces.

    Should a hero of the bench stand up fight this, yes of course, but they'd be removed by the goverment using the Art 35.4. Judges are not activists.


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    #14
    D0NNELLY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭D0NNELLY


    diomed wrote: »
    Connors. What are the chances?

    Are we still allowed to notice things like that?


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    #15
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    - Ireland as a policy is soft on crime, we don't have the prison spaces and sucessive govenerments have failded to increase the space.

    Irish people prefer to elect people who are soft on crime.
    No point complaining unless you are going to factor it into your vote.


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    #16
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Depends on the nature of the assaults. You can assault somebody without touching them.

    True.

    My hearing was assaulted by Linda Martin performance of Get Lucky on the Saturday Night Show


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    #17
    Rakish Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Rakish Paddy


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    True.

    My hearing was assaulted by Linda Martin performance of Get Lucky on the Saturday Night Show

    She gave me hearing AIDS. :eek:


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    #18
    D0NNELLY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭D0NNELLY


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    True.

    My hearing was assaulted by Linda Martin performance of Get Lucky on the Saturday Night Show

    Took me a long time to purge that. Now I'm right back there


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    #19
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    The Martin hearing cases won't be touched until Anglo is dealt with.


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    #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Since when is dementia at 82 described as 'early onset'? It might be the early stages of dementia, but early onset is considered before the age of 65.

    That Judge needs to take a course in good judgement.

    If anyone conned a grandparent of mine I'd want them locked up. You don't prey on the elderly, it's the lowest of the low.


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    #21
    skankkuvhima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭skankkuvhima


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    it doesn't matter who the Judge is, they cant put people in prison if there are no spaces.

    It's not nolans concern whether there are prison places or not, if that's why he is giving rapists light sentences and handing down Draconian sentences for financial crimes he should be sacked


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    #22
    .........
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭.........


    There is simply no deterrent to committing crime in Ireland. It's very common now in every locality to have people walking around with hundreds of criminal convictions to their name, and see no problem or difficulty in committing more.


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    #23
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    skankkuvhima wrote: »
    It's not nolans concern whether there are prison places or not, if that's why he is giving rapists light sentences and handing down Draconian sentences for financial crimes he should be sacked

    He's handing down the accepted norms in sentancing. Those norms aren;t something he pulled out of his arse one morning. The background to those norms are prison places. Financial crimes should be severly punished, in many cases they've cost more than the most prolific of buglars.


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    #24
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Is because now that certain minorities are ethnic are these cases against them not racist and also anyone commenting on such ?????

    Probably better off he didn't try and carry out any so called work as he would have caused much more expense to sort all the broken slates from him waddling around up there.


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    #25
    .........
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭.........


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    it doesn't matter who the Judge is, they cant put people in prison if there are no spaces

    This is patent nonsense, if they are not gaoled then there is no requirement for extra prison places. And there is plenty of Irish politicians that would only be too happy to get their greasy hands involved in prison property deals. So the so called lack of prison spaces is a complete red herring.


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    #26
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    ......... wrote: »
    This is patent nonsense, if they are not gaoled then there is no requirement for extra prison places. And there is plenty of Irish politicians that would only be too happy to get their greasy hands involved in prison property deals. So the so called lack of prison spaces is a complete red herring.

    It patently isn't. You only need look at the look at the exec summaries in some of the reports on the prison system. There is a massive demand for prison places, over crowding and issues with Wings in Mount Joy and one of the Cork Prisons. It's getting better, marginally, but that is partly down to the numbers of prisoners being reduced.

    This issue started even before the crash and due to the crash the complex in Meath (IIRC) was put on hold.


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    #27
    .........
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭.........


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    It patently isn't. You only need look at the look at the exec summaries in some of the reports on the prison system. There is a massive demand for prison places, over crowding and issues with Wings in Mount Joy and one of the Cork Prisons. It's getting better, marginally, but that is partly down to the numbers of prisoners being reduced.

    This issue started even before the crash and due to the crash the complex in Meath (IIRC) was put on hold.

    we've been hearing the old yarn for years, it's still bull


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    #28
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    ......... wrote: »
    we've been hearing the old yarn for years, it's still bull

    So you concede it's been going on years but it's not a problem? Not quite sure where you're going with this, no where would be my guess. Keep voting the same idiots in.


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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Legislation clearly distinguishes between serious and non-serious offences OP, as well as assault causing serious harm and assault simplciter. I assume that's what the judge was referring to.

    Assault can be as simple as me walking up to you and gently, and quietey, removing a badge from your lapel. Or even a silent phone call. It isn't always serious.
    Candie wrote: »
    If anyone conned a grandparent of mine I'd want them locked up. You don't prey on the elderly, it's the lowest of the low.
    That's why judges don't sit on cases involving their grannies.

    They can't go around treating every victim like she or he was a member of her nuclear family. The standard to be applied at sentencing is the standards of wider community, both of mercy and of retribution, as well as being informed by legislation and precedent; not simply the wishes of a family member. The latter must always be irrelevant.


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