Audio Production Degree or Diploma

kieran101

Hi, can I ask what are your opinions on doing say a 1 year hands on practical diploma versus a 3 year BA degree in audio production? Both from the point of view of content/quality for what you pay as well as employment opportunities after.

Using Pulse College as an example:
1 year Diploma - http://www.pulsecollege.com/audio/certificate-audio-music-technology-full-time/

3 year Degree - http://www.pulsecollege.com/audio/ba-hons-degree-audio-music-technology/

I am already qualified as a software engineer (5 years of college under my belt including a BA and MSc) and I've been working in the software industry for the last few years. I am also a musician and amateur producer outside of work and would seriously like to take my production skills to the next level, not only to benefit my own music but I'd also love to work in an area more aligned with music and audio. (which as of yet remains unclear but I'm confident there are many doors down that path)

Honestly the thought of studying for a year in this area excites me, 3 years however could be a stretch, and on the pocket too given that its nearly 10k a year! However I have found the following course in Berlin which offers a 3 year degree compacted into 2 years (taught over the summer months)

DBS Music 2 year Degree - http://www.dbsmusic.net/music-production-course-degree/

It would be great to get any opinions on the college itself as I know Pulse is top notch, I haven't heard much about these guys, but from my research they look legit, it is Berlin after all...

I know its a lot of work, and an expensive year, or three to commit to...and I haven't even begun to think about how i'd finance it, but I know this is where my passion lies, and I'd make it work! Even though I kind of took the long road to get here I know in my gut this is where I belong! I'd love to hear from those of you who are on the opposite end what would you recommend? Diploma/Degree? Ireland/Abroad? Or any other thoughts for an aspiring musician/producer trying to escape the comfortable 9-5 path of life and pursue his passion?

Thanks!
Kieran

Sham Squire

You should approach people who are actually working in the industry and ask their advice. People online will generally have a lot of opinions but not so much real world experience. Phone up some studios/engineers, most have their numbers on their websites, and ask them what they recommend.
In terms of employability in the industry; no qualification is going to get you work. Networking and actually doing work will get you more work than any amount of time in college. I've heard a lot of good stuff about BIMM but that's mainly due to the fact they have a lot of well known industry people teaching the courses.
It's a super competitive industry in a country that doesn't have an industry to really speak of. Making a good living in Ireland alone is nigh on impossible. If you have the chance to study abroad and get experience in a bigger pond I'd imagine that's gonna give you an advantage over anywhere in Ireland.
One word of warning: I have been working in and around the industry for most of my adult life, there are more bull**** merchants and rip off artists working in the music industry than you will find anywhere else. One thing that works to your favour in Dublin is that everybody knows everybody so if you network and ask around you'll pretty much get the low down on everyone. None of the bull****ters and rip off merchants can keep it a secret for long

godfrey

+1 to everything above. I'm in the business 37 years and paperwork means less than ever in indicating a person's ability or employability. I frequently get graduates handed to me to assist me and to be honest, most are of no help. They learned nothing practical.

You first need to decide what exactly you want to do. Studio recording? Live sound? Film? TV? No course, no matter how well designed or delivered, can cover all of those adequately, nor could they. You'll see live sound, studio, event 'management', music business, marketing, social media all under one course. A good course is useful in learning some skills, but not to develop your musical listening ability (unless it has some music modules, and some indeed do) and mixing 'chops' .

Sorry I'm not more positively disposed to the academic route, but that's my personal experience. My advice, and you may feel it's beneath you having studied hard for your qualifications to date, is to seek low/no pay jobs in the business for at least year with the biggest outfit you can find (not some young jokers offering exciting internships), decide what exactly you want to do, and find out if it suits you.

Best of luck ~
g

kieran101

Thanks very much for your replies guys really appreciate the feedback! I understand its very competitive industry, and I guess I need to make my mind up whether or not I want to go down the route of working in it or not, I imagine I would probably need at least some qualification to get my foot in the door for a start given the vast number of people already looking for the same thing.
I guess going back to my main priority I really just want to learn and improve my production skills another level, for my own music, so I'm not too overly concerned with the work side of things, I always have software to keep the bills paid. So from that point of view I imagine the course would most definitely improve my production skills, but for the price tag is it worth it is the real question! I've seen some comments on other threads about spending that money on equipment, doing some small (and cheaper) courses online, and just basically producing as much as you can on your own until you find the right sound. While that sounds great I still feel I'm at the point where i've reached the top of 'my ladder' and I need to be somewhat shown where the next one starts. Nothing beats the real thing after all, and I could save preventing years of learning bad habits if I just went straight to the source.

Either way I think if I were to part with the cash I'd go with 1yr diploma over the degree, I think I just need that extra bump to get me going, like I said I don't really want the paper, just the pen!

Thanks again, if anybody else has any comments I'd love to hear them!

Can't help but think that 9 grand could pay for a decent recording setup and a big house in the middle of nowhere for a few months...aahh a man can dream

GTE

If you're Dublin based, there are Colleges of Further Education out there which punch well above their weight when it comes to course fees.

As an educator in the area of audio production with experience in the UK and Ireland, I am sensing a trend in prospective students that the cost of the course is a determinant factor in the quality of that course. Paying around 7000 grand for a Level 6 course is really very steep. Given the popularity of the subject, and the small class numbers you inherently have with studio based courses, the spaces can be filled at the high prices.

If you are looking at doing a short course to see how you like things, you could make much worse decisions than to look at the colleges offering two year Higher National Diplomas in Music Production.

You should be paying less than 800 a year in fees and if you find that it is not your thing, you could just choose not to do the second year. You would not come out with a qualification if you did that, but for what you are looking for, that is not a major factor. As a HND graduate, you would have a two year course under your belt which is equivalent to two years honours undergraduate degree. Progression to a degree from there is difficult in Ireland, as many universities do not offer advanced entry for HND graduates (even though it is the norm elsewhere in the world). That said, I think IADTs degree has a HND pathway.

Not that I want to perpetuate the cost = quality myth, those HND courses would generally be upwards of 3500 GBP a year in the UK, we get them heavily subsidised.

Given your qualifications, you appreciate that it is about the work you put into the course, rather than the money you pay for it, which matters the most. A college like Ballyfermot certainly has the facilities which I have seen University departments get jealous of, and if you are focused enough, you can get as much as you need out of it as any other course.

As Godfrey points out, no course really caters for one specific area of audio production, and nor should they! But the skills being learned across the various modules are indeed very transferrable. If you were up for going higher up the academic ladder, then you could focus in on your specific area in more detail. However, with that said, I would recommend that you are up for traveling away from Ireland for that as different universities have different focuses; I am not convinced that the Republic of Ireland offers all that many options in that respect.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

if it was me , i do what Godfrey said , and offer to work for free or feck all in a busy pro business and work hard ,

or do it at home with some good gear
( this ensures you learn soon enough its not the gear but the ear )

and some trusted online courses .


as you go build up a resume of recordings / productions and contacts .

DaniilKharms

I have yet to meet someone that came out of Pulse that I'd hire. The same goes for BIM.

The people I know that do this professionally, myself included, learned it by working in studios, with other people who knew what they were doing, and by putting in the long hours at home, by yourself, being frustrated. LOL.

Music technology/production degrees seem to be designed to extract money from people that don't want to put in the work/people that don't know any better.

I'd avoid them at all costs, especially at the astronomical costs they charge.

TroutMask

Pulse is expensive–this is true. However, they do have excellent studios, so, if one was to take their course and actually 'woodshed' in the studios (note: this has to be done anyway if one wants to work professionally), then it is feasible that one could walk out of there in an employable state. They have mix rooms with acoustic design, large-format Neve and SSL consoles, and plenty of nice vintage/classic outboard.
I can't comment on BIM because I've never been there.

My impression is that the 'industry' (well, perhaps better described as a loose federation based on mutual interests – something like the Picts) has completely morphed since 2010. The '360-degree deal' model seems to be the way that most people are working it – at the very least you're looking at a portfolio career. Graduates with creativity and multiple skills tend to fare better in an environment like this.

DaniilKharms

TroutMask wrote: »

Pulse is expensive–this is true. However, they do have excellent studios, so, if one was to take their course and actually 'woodshed' in the studios (note: this has to be done anyway if one wants to work professionally), then it is feasible that one could walk out of there in an employable state. They have mix rooms with acoustic design, large-format Neve and SSL consoles, and plenty of nice vintage/classic outboard.
I can't comment on BIM because I've never been there.

I don't know... I have worked in and around many a Pulse student and most of them seem completely unable to do simple things without extreme direction. things like setting up a mic on an amp, setting up a channel strip, using a patch bay, etc., etc., etc.

And amongst the pros in this country that I've spoken to, there's ZERO faith that getting a degree from Pulse - on it's own - would prepare you for much more than making tea in a studio.

And in 2017 studios don't carry dead weight like they used to.

Still, it's miles better than BIM. I was hired, and sure I took the job why not, to produce two students projects for them - audio engineering student, final projects - because neither knew the first thing about recording.

People would be MUCH better off simply doing the work and learning as they go, then paying someone to teach them almost nothing and then be unemployable.

IMO. YMMV.

TroutMask

I only know one Pulse grad and he's doing well. I wonder if these unsatisfactory Pulse alumni were lazy when they were taking the degree – I mean, the student has to assume some responsibility for developing their skills. For sure, no studio wants to (or can afford to) carry dead weight. I tend to work alone for this reason: when I hire stage or studio assistants they can be a liability.

I agree that it is sad to meet production/music tech degree grads who don't understand mic patterns/techniques, direct vs. software monitoring, basic signal flow, normalling, cross-patching etc. Or interns who show up to shows with: no gaffa, no Gerber, no flashlight, no multimeter – then spend 10 hours hassling you for tape, a pliers, your LED Lenser etc.

DaniilKharms

TroutMask wrote: »

I only know one Pulse grad and he's doing well. I wonder if these unsatisfactory Pulse alumni were lazy when they were taking the degree – I mean, the student has to assume some responsibility for developing their skills. For sure, no studio wants to (or can afford to) carry dead weight. I tend to work alone for this reason: when I hire stage or studio assistants they can be a liability.

I agree that it is sad to meet production/music tech degree grads who don't understand mic patterns/techniques, direct vs. software monitoring, basic signal flow, normalling, cross-patching etc. Or interns who show up to shows with: no gaffa, no Gerber, no flashlight, no multimeter – then spend 10 hours hassling you for tape, a pliers, your LED Lenser etc.

The thing is, I think so many people go to the courses expecting to be taught, not to teach themselves. When they're NOT taught - and we both know so much of this learning is experiential, not rote - AND ALSO don't put in the effort to teach themselves they somehow still get degrees.

And then every studio in the country gets a dozen CVs from Pulse students, most of which have no experience, limited practical knowledge, and a desire to get rich off of music.

Give me a guy whose education is busting their hump for a decade trying to make their little studio/production company work every time... at least they know how little money there is left in the business.

It's interesting how much better many of the video courses are, compared to the audio ones. Somehow those guys manage to actually learn a big chunk of the trade... at least that's been my experience... I mean, all it gets them is a job copying files off of memory cards, lol, but at least they have some sense of what the world wants out of them.

Too many of the music production guys seem to try and get degrees in "making beats" and then wonder why they're still working at McDonalds five years later.