Starting early/ No pay

CuriousCitizen

Hi,

My employer requests staff to be here a few minutes before a shift starts in order to have systems ready to go at shift start, but these few minutes are unpaid.

Is anyone aware of any provisions in Irish employment law covering such a situation? Came across details of Sports Direct in the UK having to pay compensation over similar practices, curious if that could apply as well.

Nody

Had that discussion with management before asking people to be in 15 min early; the long and short answer is they can't ask you to be in early short of having a clause about it in the contract. They need to schedule people to come in earlier by 15 min if they require people logged in from let's say 9am sharp.

bucketybuck

I think if you are paid to do something at nine then you should be ready to work at nine, not just there at nine and needing another ten minutes to get going.

I also think its a very reasonable request and that a few minutes would be no problem to somebody with a good work ethic, but then I believe work should be give and take rather than antagonistic so maybe its just me.

Arcade_Tryer

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think if you are paid to do something at nine then you should be ready to work at nine, not just there at nine and needing another ten minutes to get going.

I also think its a very reasonable request and that a few minutes would be no problem to somebody with a good work ethic, but then I believe work should be give and take rather than antagonistic so maybe its just me.

Exactly. The employer takes the worker's time and effort, and gives the worker money in exchange. Hence why having to come in early should be compensated with pay. Those minutes may well add up to a fairly hefty number at the end of the year. Every little helps as they say.

To be exact on this, if it's 2-3 minutes before start of shift I would say turn a blind eye. If it's 3-5 minutes I'd be having concerns. If it's 5+ minutes I'd be having serious words. That's over an hour and a half unpaid time in work per month!

bucketybuck

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

That's over an hour and a half unpaid time in work per month!

Oh the humanity!!! :rolleyes:

Arcade_Tryer

bucketybuck wrote: »

Oh the humanity!!! :rolleyes:

Won't somebody please think of the children workers!

Kirk Van Houten

Difference in getting paid by the hour vs having a salary. If there's a chance you will move to a salary within same company through promotion I wouldn't rock the boat. If always going to be paid by the hour talk to the union.

myshirt

Have you considered contacting your local TD?

lollsangel

See i always am down with my systems set up and ready to go for the beginning of my work shift. I dont mind if i run a minute or 2 late either at the end of shift.
The way I look at it is, the day I go for a promotion I have made the impression of being willing to put in the bit extra.

Silane

I have to wear a gown where I work, and it's a bit of a trek to where I start work. So I'm onsite 20mins early to get gowned up and be where I need to be to start work. Not paid for those 20mins it but never thought anything of it, I'm where I need to be, ready to start when my shift starts.

dev100

lollsangel wrote:

See i always am down with my systems set up and ready to go for the beginning of my work shift. I dont mind if i run a minute or 2 late either at the end of shift. The way I look at it is, the day I go for a promotion I have made the impression of being willing to put in the bit extra.

The work smarter and not harder comment comes into play in most companies

CuriousCitizen wrote:

My employer requests staff to be here a few minutes before a shift starts in order to have systems ready to go at shift start, but these few minutes are unpaid.

It all depends on your circumstances . Does your employer allow flexibility in your job ? If they allow flexibility then why not . It's about give and take...

mulbot

Silane wrote: »

I have to wear a gown where I work, and it's a bit of a trek to where I start work. So I'm onsite 20mins early to get gowned up and be where I need to be to start work. Not paid for those 20mins it but never thought anything of it, I'm where I need to be, ready to start when my shift starts.

So then it also takes you 20 mins to "de-gown" after work? That's 40 mins unpaid worktime per day?

Silane

mulbot wrote: »

So then it also takes you 20 mins to "de-gown" after work? That's 40 mins unpaid worktime per day?

I don't consider it work. It doesn't actually take 20 mins, I usually get in a bit early to get up to speed on what happened on the previous shift, so I get out in about 10mins.

Trampas

Should the bus/train/luas driver get paid to drive the bus to the terminus from depot?

Going by some no.

You never hear the company letting someone go 5 minutes early to get an earlier bus or train home.

Over last 10 years companies in general have been on the take with little in return and people accepting it as been the normal.

It's normal to do an extra half an hour a day. 16 people doing that the company save employing a person.

1 hour lunches turning into 30-45 minute lunches as people are busy and have x or y to finish.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I get into my office 20 minutes before the start of the day. Get an elevator to my floor and walk to my desk.

I turn on my computer, go and use the facilities, go back to my desk and log in allow the computer to do its thing (network connections etc) and get a cuppa tea, I then get back to my desk and it's almost 9. Did I start work 20 minutes early? Personally I don't think so.

mulbot

Silane wrote: »

I don't consider it work. It doesn't actually take 20 mins, I usually get in a bit early to get up to speed on what happened on the previous shift, so I get out in about 10mins.

But does your Boss consider it work?

the_pen_turner

all work related duties should be done on work time

if you can turn up in your uniform then start if you at 9 then be there at 9 or a minute or 2 early

if you have to change into your uniform because it has to be on site like a factory or medical gown etc then you should be there at 9 then go get changed. ready to work in 10 min maybe. putting on a uniform in this situation is PPE and should be done on work time

Old Perry

mulbot wrote: »

But does your Boss consider it work?

I imagine not (as in not paid). This is standard practice for alot of jobs/professions these days. From a salaried nurse to a by the hour factory worker. Its common sense in one way and good practice in another and if you want to make your work life easier its done not solely for the benifit of your employer but also your self. In most places it shouldnt really have to be explicitly stated but just a given imho.

Samuel T. Cogley

Silane wrote: »

I have to wear a gown where I work, and it's a bit of a trek to where I start work. So I'm onsite 20mins early to get gowned up and be where I need to be to start work. Not paid for those 20mins it but never thought anything of it, I'm where I need to be, ready to start when my shift starts.

Oh I wish so hard this was AH!

Your contract will likely have some provision on other hours as needed and if you're on salary and it doesn't fall below minimum wage with the extra hours then I'd say you'd have to suck it up. (I mean the OP, not you Batman). Remember you can lock windows as it gets into the VM if you're using one, go off and make a coffee etc.

Avatar MIA

lollsangel wrote: »

I dont mind if i run a minute or 2 late either at the end of shift.
The way I look at it is, the day I go for a promotion I have made the impression of being willing to put in the bit extra.

:pac: working a minute or two over time is the bar for making an impression now? :pac:

Kirk Van Houten

Trampas wrote:

Should the bus/train/luas driver get paid to drive the bus to the terminus from depot?

Trampas wrote:

Going by some no.

Trampas wrote:

You never hear the company letting someone go 5 minutes early to get an earlier bus or train home.

Trampas wrote:

Over last 10 years companies in general have been on the take with little in return and people accepting it as been the normal.

Trampas wrote:

It's normal to do an extra half an hour a day. 16 people doing that the company save employing a person.

Trampas wrote:

1 hour lunches turning into 30-45 minute lunches as people are busy and have x or y to finish.

The stat given out on the Bus Eireann strike was that drivers were working on average 9.5 hours but only driving for 5.5 of those.

Not hard to see why some companies are a cluster fccuk.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

the_pen_turner wrote: »

all work related duties should be done on work time

if you can turn up in your uniform then start if you at 9 then be there at 9 or a minute or 2 early

if you have to change into your uniform because it has to be on site like a factory or medical gown etc then you should be there at 9 then go get changed. ready to work in 10 min maybe. putting on a uniform in this situation is PPE and should be done on work time

The lads on the previous shift down tools 15 minutes early to de gown, the lads on the incoming shift then take 15 to gown. That's a half hour where your shop floor is unmonitored. Not a runner in most places.

the_pen_turner

no down tme if managment did their properly.
you start at 1245 for 1 and they finish at 1 15 and 1 for degown etc

pajo1981

What kind of sap shows up to their job early to work for free?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

the_pen_turner wrote: »

no down tme if managment did their properly.
you start at 1245 for 1 and they finish at 1 15 and 1 for degown etc

In my place there's a premium for shift work, the time taken to gown and degown is factored into that

Kirk Van Houten

pajo1981 wrote:

What kind of sap shows up to their job early to work for free?

Probably a sap that wants to advance him or her self and potentially move on from getting paid by the hour to a salaried role.

Amirani

Naturally quite different for minimum wage and low paid jobs, but I don't really mind working the extra 30mins+ above contracted hours I normally do (when necessary) when it gets me the 20% pay rise I got at the end of the year.

If you're willing to sacrifice your work despite the company needing it for the sake of a few minutes you don't get paid for then you're not someone I'm gonna be eager to promote. Nobody should let themselves be taken for a ride, but ya gotta not just think short term and look at the bigger picture.

Stheno

Mod

This is not AH read the charter, and post constructively or there will be cards.

the_pen_turner

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

In my place there's a premium for shift work, the time taken to gown and degown is factored into that

i dont agree . that rate is for the diferent hour that are being worked.
what i being questioned here is that you should work extra time for no extra pay.
i wouldnt mind a few minutes but 15 is too much and needs payment

Mrs OBumble

These threads are so tedious.

All they show is the attitude difference between clock-watching paid-by-the-hour types who are unlikely to go far, paid-by-the-hour types who can see the bigger picture, and salaried workers who most days don't even notice their starting and ending times.

pajo1981

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Probably a sap that wants to advance him or her self and potentially move on from getting paid by the hour to a salaried role.

Nope, Id judge an employee by the quality of their work not gimmicky gestures like showing up early.

Amirani

pajo1981 wrote: »

Nope, Id judge an employee by the quality of their work not gimmicky gestures like showing up early.

And if the quality of your work is negatively impacted by not showing up early and hence not having adequate time to prepare etc?

the_pen_turner

Amirani wrote: »

And if the quality of your work is negatively impacted by not showing up early and hence not having adequate time to prepare etc?

why should you be early

what have you to prepare . prepareing is part of the job . and should be done on work time.

mulbot

Amirani wrote: »

And if the quality of your work is negatively impacted by not showing up early and hence not having adequate time to prepare etc?

You don't need to show up early to work to have a positive effect on the quality of the work-Any competent and dedicated worker can get quality results within the paid hours

lollsangel

Avatar MIA wrote: »

:pac: working a minute or two over time is the bar for making an impression now? :pac:

I work with ppl that drop tools and leave early to get to the clock machine before clock out time, so yes staying on a few minutes to get the job finished makes a good impression

ongarite

One of the biggest multi-nationals and employers in this country pays their shift staff to come in 15 mins early & stay 15 mins late for a shift passdown.
If they do it, I can't see why the OP shouldn't be paid for it if his employer is requesting the same thing.

Stheno

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

These threads are so tedious.

All they show is the attitude difference between clock-watching paid-by-the-hour types who are unlikely to go far, paid-by-the-hour types who can see the bigger picture, and salaried workers who most days don't even notice their starting and ending times.

Mrs OBumble,

Your persistent negative posting is not contributing to the forum. Take a day off to consider adopting a more positive style of contributing to the forum please.

Professor Moriarty

pajo1981 wrote: »

Nope, Id judge an employee by the quality of their work not gimmicky gestures like showing up early.

Two employees. One turns up early and shows commitment. The other just does their job. Easy to see who will progress.

Having said that, if there is no opportunity for advancement then let them go to hell.

the_pen_turner

.

mulbot

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Two employees. One turns up early and shows commitment. The other just does their job. Easy to see who will progress.

Having said that, if there is no opportunity for advancement then let them go to hell.

If both get the job done then I'd look more favorably on the worker who didn't need to come in early or stay late.

Professor Moriarty

mulbot wrote: »

If both get the job done then I'd look more favorably on the worker who didn't need to come in early or stay late.

I suppose it depends on the type of work. All things being equal, I'd prefer an eager to please employee rather than a clock watcher. Personally, if I was looking to advance my career, I wouldn't be clock watching.

Jurgen Klopp

Ha, i know a couple people who often worked unpaid overtime from the odd half an hour to even a couple hours and thought it would look great for promotion.

In one case a daughter of the bosses friend was hired and didn't do a tap and was constantly late and taking long lunches, down tools at 5pm on the dot even if there was work to be done, she said she wasn't working extra for no pay and would do it the next day.

Guess who was promoted? :pac:

My mates have learned their lesson :pac:

rainbowdrop

I usually clock in 10 minutes early, to be logged on and ready to go for 9am. I usually work 5-10 minutes after finishing time as well. Would sometimes stay back 30mins or so (unpaid) if something needed finishing urgently.

It all balances out, cos I would often go for a quick cigarette once or twice a day, and if I had something I needed to do, I could take an extended lunch break on occasion.

The bosses know I do this, and don't mind. We are not going to quibble about minutes here or there.

It's all about give and take imo

Professor Moriarty

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Ha, i know a couple people who often worked unpaid overtime from the odd half an hour to even a couple hours and thought it would look great for promotion.

In one case a daughter of the bosses friend was hired and didn't do a tap and was constantly late and taking long lunches, down tools at 5pm on the dot even if there was work to be done, she said she wasn't working extra for no pay and would do it the next day.

Guess who was promoted? :pac:

My mates have learned their lesson :pac:

They should change jobs and adopt the same attitude as they had. The problem isn't them, it's their employer.

brightspark

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

These threads are so tedious.

All they show is the attitude difference between clock-watching paid-by-the-hour types who are unlikely to go far, paid-by-the-hour types who can see the bigger picture, and salaried workers who most days don't even notice their starting and ending times.

Why is it bad for employees to clock watch, but good when employers do?

If employers expect to get "work" for every minute they pay why is it wrong for employees to expect "pay" for every minute spent at the workplace.

If a company requires one shift to come in early or the other to stay late then it's work and should be paid for.

longshanks

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

These threads are so tedious.

All they show is the attitude difference between clock-watching paid-by-the-hour types who are unlikely to go far, paid-by-the-hour types who can see the bigger picture, and salaried workers who most days don't even notice their starting and ending times.

This kind of reply is beyond tedious.

The assumptions you've come to are pathetic. Following your logic all every employer has to do is change hourly pay to a salary and suddenly people will be happy to start early and finish late.

Silane

pajo1981 wrote: »

What kind of sap shows up to their job early to work for free?

I don't mind, I like my job, and coming in earlier to get on top of things makes the day less stressful, and the morning easier.
Coming in early and doing a bit of extra work isn't for everybody. And I would never encourage anybody else to do it, the less people that do it the better when promotions and redundancies come around.