Jr major issue

Bikerguy

I have 2 JR..one regular size male neutered and second miniature female neutered... I have them for over 4 years...

Now the issue.. The female was always littleni call it cranky.... But i never paid a lot of attention to her behaviour... She would not let anyone pet her since we got her but me.... But we love her.... I even contacted behaviorist.... They advised adoption but she doesnt allow anyone to even touch her...i mean she will attack- harm...

So....i have young boy 2y old.... And we always keep them under supervision.. But for today she attacked the male and caused him major injury under eye.... It was from jealousy.. As she though we were giving him more love then to her..

She would attack other dogs....always..

My hearth is broken.... As i know what has to happen but i dontnhave the balls...


Ps: she even snapped few times on my son...caused some minor bruise when he was poking her eyes... Kids do that....


I live in country in cottage house...my garden is like soccer field..so she is not closed in cage... We keep them both indoor... Clean and well cared..

The male is from Baltinglass..easy going..never did anything wrong..neither attacked... So its a country dog....owner had sheeps and animals...so he is superb and gets well...


Now my question....is there anything i can do a part of put her down? Kennels will not take her as she will not even let them to touch her... In vet i have to hold her tight.. Otherwise she would attack....

Wtf am i getting into... Its seriously more serious then it seems... She is my baby...but i cant be with her 24/7.... Hint: she is from "junkie" family from Finglas....no offense here..just saying..

Any advise?

Bells21

OP, you mentioned that you contacted a behaviourist, did this behaviourist observe your dog? Also where did you find the details for this behaviourist?
You mention that the dog reacted to your child poking their eyes and that's what kids do. That is not what kids or anyone for that matter should do. Can you have a safe separate space for this dog until you get some guidance on the issues at hand?
Perhaps if you let us know where you are based someone can recommend a professional who may be able to help?

Bikerguy

Bells21 wrote: »

OP, you mentioned that you contacted a behaviourist, did this behaviourist observe your dog? Also where did you find the details for this behaviourist?
You mention that the dog reacted to your child poking their eyes and that's what kids do. That is not what kids or anyone for that matter should do. Can you have a safe separate space for this dog until you get some guidance on the issues at hand?
Perhaps if you let us know where you are based someone can recommend a professional who may be able to help?

Ardee...going tomorrow first thing to talk to my vet.. The therapist was from Drogheda.... 1.5y a go.


Just o mention... I am not defending my decision.. Or saying its sog fold...


I had my nose bitten (and had to get threated) while i was only playing... I have 10cm scar for life on my hand when my dog snapped while i was eating pizza on our back garden.... Jumped and snapped... I always forgive and i always tried my best.. I though its my fold not paying attention.... Or not doing enough... But i cant keep giving myself excuses.. I have to face the truth.
. but now my son comes first.. The wound she caused is not bruise..or scratch.. Its deep cut... Thats where the fun ends... I am not giving anything away... I am with her and thats why i wrote this topic...i am desperate in need of help..

And thank you for respond.....

Graces7

Hard place to be OP

Maybe think about rehoming her ? Where there are no children or other dogs?

sillysmiles

The thing that strike me is that she cant be touched. To me that sounds like she is in pain and trying to mind herself? If she's that aggressive then it's possible that it's difficult for a vet to examine her?

The other thing is if she is as reactive as you say then I should think it wouldn't be fair to rehome her. Or if you do find someone to take her on then you'd had you bee completely open about all of her issues.

Bikerguy

sillysmiles wrote: »

The thing that strike me is that she cant be touched. To me that sounds like she is in pain and trying to mind herself? If she's that aggressive then it's possible that it's difficult for a vet to examine her?

The other thing is if she is as reactive as you say then I should think it wouldn't be fair to rehome her. Or if you do find someone to take her on then you'd had you bee completely open about all of her issues.

Had her for rehoming year a go.... Two people came..both left as she wanted to harm them... They were both widow ladies from Mornington living near beach..i had add on adverts.ie.. Vet in Mornington advised me that i have to put her down...after seing her.... But i cant do it... I simply cant.. Behaviorist said that only choice is provide her separate enviroment.... I dont have that option...

My dogs are well looked after... She is being checked every year with regular shots..i dont think that she has any paib issues...as i can handle her no problemo... She doesnt allow anyone else...

Just to mention...she always pee herself when she is being approached...i am honestly going to consult specialist today.... The last chance is sacrify the "good dog" the male who can find a new home...and have her on her own... Nobody knows how its feel...i have them for 5y..and they are breaking my hearth.... I am grow man...but everytime i think what decision iam facing i feel like piece of ****... Notneven imagine how tge dogs wil suffer...but there is no more excuse...

I am just broken...

Edit: everytime vet is examining her i have to hold her..and she has to have the mount guard or what ever you call it on.. She would bite....

Bikerguy

Graces7 wrote: »

Hard place to be OP

Maybe think about rehoming her ? Where there are no children or other dogs?

I tried...as mentioned vet advised me that no kennels will take dog with agression behavior and i tried to find her home on my own...

Meathcat7

I would recommend that you contact Brian Rosney, he is an absolute genius when it comes to dogs. I have a female lab who I got when she was 1 and a half. She was terribly nervous and would snap at anyone who went near her if she wasn't used to them. He spent 10 mins with her - it was a charity day so he had like 20 dogs to see - and he said she is a lovely girl but that she had obviously been grabbed many times at the scruff of the neck. We haven't been able to cure of her of the snapping but the knowledge that she had been mistreated allowed us to prepare new people to meet her. We tell them to completely ignore her and let her come to you. Works a dream each time.

Brian and Sonia are based in Carlow or Laois I think, if you Google him you'll get his contact details. If he can't see anything good, he'll tell you. He did that with a dog that was part of an animal charity I volunteered for. He doesn't mince his words.

Bikerguy

Well as advised today by my vet.... Behaviorists it is.. joane Byrne from Dundalk..closer to me... I decided ti invest as much as i can into the relations as living with guild its not my thing...


I will all keep you updated with progress.

Bells21

I'm glad that you're heading down the behaviourist route. It will take time though OP, in a meantime you need to ensure that everyone is safe and enduring minimal stress. Using baby gates or having a designated room for the dog until the behaviourist can advise you in a more specific way would be a good idea.
You'll know more of what you will need to do for everyone's benefit after you've had a professional in. I wish you all the best.

Ms Doubtfire1

There is one thing that springs out to me here: She pees when she is approached.That is usually a sign of intense fear. I do hope a behaviorist can help. Does she also pee when you approach her?

kathleen37

I do hope you can get sorted. Sounds like the little pet does have some issues which need addressed urgently. I too think the peeing on approach sounds like fear.

Please keep us updated - Calling @DBB - isn't there a list of registered behaviourist somewhere? I would think the behaviourist seeing her in her own environment would be the best approach.

Knine

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

There is one thing that springs out to me here: She pees when she is approached.That is usually a sign of intense fear. I do hope a behaviorist can help. Does she also pee when you approach her?

It is a common occurance in young bitches & bitch puppies can also do this. Often it is excitement. Thankfully most grow out of it.

DBB

kathleen37 wrote: »

Please keep us updated - Calling @DBB - isn't there a list of registered behaviourist somewhere?

There is indeed... It is UK based but with some Irish consultants... http://www.abtcouncil.org.uk cf "Register of Practitioners" on the bottom right of the page.
There are, however, some excellent behaviourists not included on the list as they don't necessarily have the required list of academic letters after their names... One or two of whom I'd trust more with my dogs (Emmaline from Citizen Canine Ireland springs to mind... Fab )

The girl the op has listed is not a registered behaviourist, but she is vet nurse, so hopefully she'd pick up on any underlying medical issues.
The little dog has a huge amount of issues, and from what op has described, rehoming the dog isn't really an option. It looks to me that this is going to boil down to careful and rigorous management, one of the major priorities include preventing any children from sticking their fingers into any of her body parts Seriously... Dog and child, and dog and visitors, MUST be kept separate. The alternative is to deal with the consequences when she bites someone.

Bikerguy

Set to meet her at 12. Of april...i heared nothing but positive feedback about her...

Thanks for tips

Edit: she has no tail..cutted by previous owner from Finglas... And when when approached she is getting excited and pee or say wee a bit.... Well somwtimes a big bit... Its not fear..when i wanna pet her she will roll on her back and wait for my touch..i am no expert but thats submisive position...

Lads i am keeping the dogs separate now.... 2 weeks isnnothing..i wanna have this right... Money are tight..but again....no money will repay feeling of guilt...

Bikerguy

kathleen37 wrote: »

I do hope you can get sorted. Sounds like the little pet does have some issues which need addressed urgently. I too think the peeing on approach sounds like fear.

Please keep us updated - Calling @DBB - isn't there a list of registered behaviourist somewhere? I would think the behaviourist seeing her in her own environment would be the best approach.

The lady Joane is coming to my house to make an assessment and see what can she do...she said 2 hours first sesion...so you are right...i feel little happy or say satisfied.... I know its not going to be overnight thing and defo not an easy task....but hey. I will upload pics of them tomorrow.

Thanks

DBB

Bikerguy wrote: »

Its not fear..when i wanna pet her she will roll on her back and wait for my touch..i am no expert but thats submisive position...

Careful now!
It's not so much submissive in an "I accept you as my leader" way, rather it can be a sign that the dog is a bit uncomfortable about being approached or touched... They get themselves into a conflicted situation because they're presenting a vulnerable part of their body in a "please don't hurt me" way, but it *looks like* they're inviting you for a belly rub... yet they're feeling scared and vulnerable. The person rubs the tummy, the dog reaches boiling point because they feel very trapped, and leaps up growling and snapping.
A dog presenting the tummy with a relaxed body and soft expression is inviting a tummy rub... A dog that rolls over stiffly, with whites of eyes showing, ears at stiff half-mast, and probably keeping watch of you the whole time, is not actually a dog who wants their tummy rubbed.
Be very careful of how you interpret what your dog is actually saying to you op... Misinterpretation may be causing problems. Google or do a YouTube search for "dog calming signals" and "dog distress signals"... Watch lots of videos... You may spot things that make you think twice about how you *think* your dog feels about your social interactions!

Latatian

For now keep them separated all the time when you are not directly in the room with them- and keep her separated from the two year old all the time.

Poking dogs in the eye is what small kids do if they are not supervised. Snapping at them is what dogs do. It's a perfectly normal reaction for a dog to snap when poked in the eye- it's what they would do if a pup did the same thing. It's the equivalent of you or I saying 'Hey, that hurt, stop that'. If the pup did not listen, they might well bite but the snap is a warning. If she didn't break the skin when he poked her, then she was showing good self restraint. The dog is warning the child and you that the child is not old enough to be let around her safely. Good dog. She could have started off with a bite like the one to the other dog, instead of a warning, and then you'd be in trouble. Just think this is important to say 'cos this is something that can easily end up with a small child getting bitten if your child tries this with someone else's dog.

If she rolls over on her back when you approach that could well be extreme fear, the behaviourist will be able to tell you more. It can be the dog equivalent of 'Oh god look how small and submissive I am please don't kill me' and the next stage after that if you bother the dog, can be a bite.

Bikerguy

Her and them together

Bikerguy

Together

aonb

Gorgeous pair of terriers!

kathleen37

Wow - they're both beautiful!!

Minera

Really nice pictures op. I've no real advice but I am following this thread with great interest. Hope it works out well

Bikerguy

Minera wrote: »

Really nice pictures op. I've no real advice but I am following this thread with great interest. Hope it works out well

No real update untill 12 of april..thank you

crustybla

Oh how gorgeous are they!! You've had some great advice here. A massive thing is to learn to read her body language as the others have said. I have a little rescue terrier and I have to watch him like a hawk. He can be very nervous, especially with children. I tell everyone who even looks at him not to touch him as he may go for them, even people he knows. It's a pain, I'd love a dog who I can let people pet. Or one who we can chill on the sofa with. I only let him up occasionally, when the rest of the house is in bed because if anyone approaches when he's on the sofa, it isn't pretty!
In saying that, it's the way he is. He's also the most loyal, clever little thing. Fair play to you, you're doing your best for her. Best of luck!

Bikerguy

today is the day..awaiting the behaviorist and her evaluation..... will keep you all updated.

Bikerguy

just left.... i dont really know how to explain it to all that it doesnt sound cruel... but one of my dogs have to go... there is no option the retrain the behavior once the trust is gone...dont catch me on words..i said it simple that everyone can understand. i am not leaving the battle... i am simply surrending that no more will be lost..

my hearth is broken....

Ms Doubtfire1

ehm what? you mean she said you have to put the female to sleep?

cocker5

What trainer did you get OP??

Bells21

cocker5 wrote:

What trainer did you get OP??

From what i remember from this thread the Op named her as Joanne Byrne from Dundalk.

Bells21

Bikerguy wrote:

just left.... i dont really know how to explain it to all that it doesnt sound cruel... but one of my dogs have to go... there is no option the retrain the behavior once the trust is gone...dont catch me on words..i said it simple that everyone can understand. i am not leaving the battle... i am simply surrending that no more will be lost..

Does this mean re-homing the dog or having the dog PTS?

kathleen37

Really?

I'm more than suprised that was her advice...

Waiting for thoughts from others...

sillysmiles

Really sorry to hear that.
When the shock subsides, any chance you can give a bit more detail on what the behavioueiat did, found and said?

volchitsa

Looking back at the OP, that seems to have been his intention from the start, so I wonder if he may have heard what he wanted/expected to hear.

Bikerguy

volchitsa wrote: »

Looking back at the OP, that seems to have been his intention from the start, so I wonder if he may have heard what he wanted/expected to hear.

oh yes..thats what i wanted....just called behaviorist waited and now i feel satisfied.... yup exactly.. you mr. have no hearth and no feelings to imagine how difficult the situation is... i dont need to justify the situation or action i am taking.... she didnt advise me to put the dog down so you have no idea...

she spend in my house 2 hours....observing the dogs and asking questions about behaviour...our and the dogs... she never took any decision or told me what to do...i am a grown man.....responsible... she gave me options which me and my wife had to choose.... what we choose i never disclosed.... or suggesting or judging me as dog owner is shallow... come to my house you are welcome and i can talk you through the situation and then you decide....


i was sharing this topic as i was and i am desperate and in tears.... and i am sure someone out there is or will be in the same situation and can learn from it... or ask me genuine question....

i have no more to say towards you.

Bikerguy

sillysmiles wrote: »

Really sorry to hear that.
When the shock subsides, any chance you can give a bit more detail on what the behavioueiat did, found and said?

questions..many..started when and where i got the dog..any sicknesses.... any issues with eating.what food we giving them, how often... whats the problem with them.if they have enough excersise snd how we excersise them, they were many questions...some detailed some generic .she also observed how they were and asked us more private questions about how they behave...if they listen if they were trained... etc..

volchitsa

Bikerguy wrote: »

oh yes..thats what i wanted....just called behaviorist waited and now i feel satisfied.... yup exactly.. you mr. have no hearth and no feelings to imagine how difficult the situation is... i dont need to justify the situation or action i am taking.... she didnt advise me to put the dog down so you have no idea...

she spend in my house 2 hours....observing the dogs and asking questions about behaviour...our and the dogs... she never took any decision or told me what to do...i am a grown man.....responsible... she gave me options which me and my wife had to choose.... what we choose i never disclosed.... or suggesting or judging me as dog owner is shallow... come to my house you are welcome and i can talk you through the situation and then you decide....


i was sharing this topic as i was and i am desperate and in tears.... and i am sure someone out there is or will be in the same situation and can learn from it... or ask me genuine question....

i have no more to say towards you.

I'm sorry if it seems harsh, and maybe I could have put it better. By wanted/expected I didn't mean you hoped that would happen, but more that I get the feeling your mind was pretty much made up from the first post, unless the trainer had a magic solution for you, which of course was unlikely.

I'm not criticizing you for that decision, I actually have some sympathy for it : you have two dogs, one sweet and loving, the other, through no fault of its own, is a nightmare. You're told you can't keep both and nobody wants to take psycho dog off your hands.

It's a horrible place to be, but I don't think I'd give away the lovely dog to someone else either - who knows what might happen to it after? Even a little old lady who'd cherish it might get ill and it could end up abandoned, so unless I'd no choice, it's a bit like giving a child away for adoption, not something I'd do easily, myself.
And then there's the question of responsibility: there's always a risk to people, especially children, from a dog that just can't be trusted. And the law, apart from anything else, says that consideration to people has to come first.

So no, I don't think I'd have anything to criticize if that's the decision you made.
Maybe other people will - but do they have a better solution to offer you?

I hope this is clearer. I wasn't criticizing you earlier, just trying to work out what was really being said.

kathleen37

Is @DBB about? I'd appreciate hearing her thoughts on this one?

(Feel for you, OP, rotten situation)

Bikerguy

volchitsa wrote: »

I'm sorry if it seems harsh, and maybe I could have put it better. By wanted/expected I didn't mean you hoped that would happen, but more that I get the feeling your mind was pretty much made up from the first post, unless the trainer had a magic solution for you, which of course was unlikely.

I'm not criticizing you for that decision, I actually have some sympathy for it : you have two dogs, one sweet and loving, the other, through no fault of its own, is a nightmare. You're told you can't keep both and nobody wants to take psycho dog off your hands.

It's a horrible place to be, but I don't think I'd give away the lovely dog to someone else either - who knows what might happen to it after? Even a little old lady who'd cherish it might get ill and it could end up abandoned, so unless I'd no choice, it's a bit like giving a child away for adoption, not something I'd do easily, myself.
And then there's the question of responsibility: there's always a risk to people, especially children, from a dog that just can't be trusted. And the law, apart from anything else, says that consideration to people has to come first.

So no, I don't think I'd have anything to criticize if that's the decision you made.
Maybe other people will - but do they have a better solution to offer you?

I hope this is clearer. I wasn't criticizing you earlier, just trying to work out what was really being said.

well said...i didnt want to come after you like a upset maniac...its just last thing i needed was someone telling me what i did wrong... forgive me.

yes i was basically given no option but to surrend the dog to shelter and the dog will be PTS immediately or do it my on my own...or lie...

i knew it since day one...that would happen but i still had a hope that somehow i could avoid that by retraining or adjusting enviroment.... but thats not an option....


bible says that dogs aint going to heaven and are here to make us "pleasure" as pets or companions.... but this turned to be a nightmare...as for today if anyone in the same situation wanna know more please pm me....but i have said enough....

muddypaws

OP if you do decide to have her pts, please do it yourself, don't hand her over to the pound or ask a rescue to take her. Give her a good last, long walk, take in some chicken or ham, hold her while the vet does whats needed, giving her the chicken, so that her last day is a good one.

Unfortunately the country is full of dogs looking for new homes, a dog with the kind of behaviourial issues that your dog seems to have is almost unrehomable. There may be a home out there that will take her on and keep her and everyone else safe, but finding it will be very, very difficult. Sometimes, if a dog is mentally unwell, which she may very well be, an easy passing is the kindest thing for them, the same as for a dog with a physical condition that means they are in pain.

I really don't envy you this situation, but ethical rescue organisations make the decision to put a physical healthy, but mentally unhealthy animal to sleep more often than people want to acknowledge. When we ask dogs to live with us, we also expect a certain level of behaviour from them, so that they are not a danger to other dogs, or to humans, probably unfair, as they are animals, but that is part of the human/dog relationship.

Best of luck

volchitsa

Bikerguy wrote: »

well said...i didnt want to come after you like a upset maniac...its just last thing i needed was someone telling me what i did wrong... forgive me.

yes i was basically given no option but to surrend the dog to shelter and the dog will be PTS immediately or do it my on my own...or lie...

i knew it since day one...that would happen but i still had a hope that somehow i could avoid that by retraining or adjusting enviroment.... but thats not an option....


bible says that dogs aint going to heaven and are here to make us "pleasure" as pets or companions.... but this turned to be a nightmare...as for today if anyone in the same situation wanna know more please pm me....but i have said enough....

Like I said, I do understand, and it's a horrible situation to be in. But I know someone who's planning on breeding from a male dog I think is totally unsuitable character-wise (because he's a handsome pure bred) and to my mind that's a far worse thing to do than the fact that you've been forced into a terrible decision, no matter what decision you make.

I hope it works out for the best for you anyway.

kylith

Bikerguy wrote: »

bible says that dogs aint going to heaven and are here to make us "pleasure" as pets or companions.... but this turned to be a nightmare...as for today if anyone in the same situation wanna know more please pm me....but i have said enough....

Bible don't know sh!t.

A very wise person once said "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."