Suggestion to optimise dart traffic

kidneyfan

Given the congestion at Connolly what about this:

Darts to run from Howth Junction south and from Malahide and Howth only to Howth junction.

Everyone gets off at Howth Junction and gets on the main dart train southbound.

end of the road

nothing would really be solved. the train may as well continue from howth junction to mallahide.

Atlantic Dawn

Overtaking lanes are needed so the mainline route trains can get out of the way but sadly planning means most of the line has houses build up to a few feet of it and is a complete mess.

loyatemu

kidneyfan wrote: »

Given the congestion at Connolly what about this:

Darts to run from Howth Junction south and from Malahide and Howth only to Howth junction.

Everyone gets off at Howth Junction and gets on the main dart train southbound.

Or just run Darts from Malahide to Bray/Greystones and make the Howth branch a shuttle which would have the same effect. This has been suggested numerous times before but I think the issue is lack of stabling for Darts at Malahide.

Beside it wouldn't reduce the actual number of trains - all the trains that go through Connolly in the morning are full, so reducing the number of services through Connolly isn't a solution to anything. There's a Dart every 15 mins at present and they want to increase that to 10 mins - whether those trains are going to Howth or Malahide doesn't make any difference to congestion at Connolly.

kidneyfan

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Overtaking lanes are needed so the mainline route trains can get out of the way but sadly planning means most of the line has houses build up to a few feet of it and is a complete mess.

CPO the houses

kidneyfan

loyatemu wrote: »

Or just run Darts from Malahide to Bray/Greystones and make the Howth branch a shuttle which would have the same effect. This has been suggested numerous times before but I think the issue is lack of stabling for Darts at Malahide.

Beside it wouldn't reduce the actual number of trains - all the trains that go through Connolly in the morning are full, so reducing the number of services through Connolly isn't a solution to anything. There's a Dart every 15 mins at present and they want to increase that to 10 mins - whether those trains are going to Howth or Malahide doesn't make any difference to congestion at Connolly.

Time for double decker trains?

coylemj

kidneyfan wrote: »

Time for double decker trains?

Not sure if you're serious but just in case..... it's probably not feasible as the electric lines would have to be raised and as well as being costly, it would be a challenge in stations with bridges across the track. Not to mention the various footbridges over the line on the southside - they were built to maintain access to the beach for the local residents when the original Kingstown railway line was laid down.

Decuc500

A simple solution would be for IR to buy more DART carriages (but not those Japanese carriages with fewer and more uncomfortable seats) and increase every rush hour train to eight carriages.

Obviously not going to happen as it involves IR spending more money but would go a huge way to easing congestion.

loyatemu

Decuc500 wrote: »

A simple solution would be for IR to buy more DART carriages (but not those Japanese carriages with fewer and more uncomfortable seats) and increase every rush hour train to eight carriages.

Obviously not going to happen as it involves IR spending more money but would go a huge way to easing congestion.

most of the rush hour trains are already 8 carriages. The solution is to remove all the seats! Actually the proper solution is Dart Underground and Metro North, but they will probably also have to (at least) 3-track the northern line eventually.

magicbastarder

kidneyfan wrote: »

CPO the houses

i can see this being collossally expensive; enough that it would probably call a halt to other transport projects.

MGWR

kidneyfan wrote: »

Given the congestion at Connolly what about this:

Darts to run from Howth Junction south and from Malahide and Howth only to Howth junction.

Everyone gets off at Howth Junction and gets on the main dart train southbound.

The "congestion" is due to dragging heels with respect to upgrading signals. Been going on for at least two decades thus far. Turning through trains into shuttle trains, thus forcing a two-seat ride, means more congested trains on the main line, i.e. if people continue to ride.

loyatemu wrote: »

Actually the proper solution is Dart Underground and Metro North, but they will probably also have to (at least) 3-track the northern line eventually.

So-called "DART Underground" solves nothing. Merely re-routes existing trains, forces transfers to get to the city centre, and shortens their suburban reach (Northern Line to terminate at Balbriggan and Kildare Line terminating at Hazelhatch). And wasn't 4-tracking the Northern Line supposed to be part of it?

As for Metro North, that should have been re-designed as DART for the sake of capacity and no multiplication of fleets and spare parts inventories. "Luas BXD" should be abandoned and the Green Line rebuilt as part of another DART, from Broombridge to Blanchardstown and further north. Eventually, the Luas Red Line will have to be rebuilt as some sort of Metro as well.

Decuc500

loyatemu wrote: »

most of the rush hour trains are already 8 carriages. The solution is to remove all the seats! Actually the proper solution is Dart Underground and Metro North, but they will probably also have to (at least) 3-track the northern line eventually.

The rubbish Japanese trains are all 8 but the older nicer trains mainly 6. If these were increased to 8 carriages it would help a lot.

Sam Russell

There are passing paths at Clongriffin for North bound and room for southbound trains. Clontarf could be configured for passing as well. That should be sufficient for express trains to pass Darts.

IE 222

Northern line congestion is the main problem followed by the loop line. Better use could be made of Newcom JCT for Maynooth services.

Signalling will help relieve loop line somewhat. 4 tracking between Connelly and Harmonstown wouldn't involve much CPO's and not to difficult to implement but would still be costly.

Main line services are delayed and slowed by Dart not Dart delayed by them.

kidneyfan

IE 222 wrote: »

Northern line congestion is the main problem followed by the loop line. Better use could be made of Newcom JCT for Maynooth services.

Signalling will help relieve loop line somewhat. 4 tracking between Connelly and Harmonstown wouldn't involve much CPO's and not to difficult to implement but would still be costly.

Main line services are delayed and slowed by Dart not Dart delayed by them.

dart is what matters though

Hollister11

kidneyfan wrote: »

CPO the houses

Force people to sell! That's disgusting.

If I was ever issued a CPO there is no way I would comply.

Cookie_Monster

kidneyfan wrote: »

Time for double decker trains?

the loading gauge* in the UK and Ireland is too small to allow without major modifications, unlike Europe where loading gauge was allowed to be larger orignally.

8Height and width allowed around the rails or bridge clearance and so forth.

Hollister11 wrote: »

Force people to sell! That's disgusting.

If I was ever issued a CPO there is no way I would comply.

you know you won't have a choice, right?
The needs of the many...

L1011

Hollister11 wrote: »

If I was ever issued a CPO there is no way I would comply.

You don't seem to understand what a CPO is.

Hollister11

L1011 wrote: »

You don't seem to understand what a CPO is.

So what they turf you out if your house even if your paying a mortgage on it.

LeinsterDub

MGWR wrote: »

The "congestion" is due to dragging heels with respect to upgrading signals. Been going on for at least two decades thus far. Turning through trains into shuttle trains, thus forcing a two-seat ride, means more congested trains on the main line, i.e. if people continue to ride.So-called "DART Underground" solves nothing. Merely re-routes existing trains, forces transfers to get to the city centre, and shortens their suburban reach (Northern Line to terminate at Balbriggan and Kildare Line terminating at Hazelhatch). And wasn't 4-tracking the Northern Line supposed to be part of it?

As for Metro North, that should have been re-designed as DART for the sake of capacity and no multiplication of fleets and spare parts inventories. "Luas BXD" should be abandoned and the Green Line rebuilt as part of another DART, from Broombridge to Blanchardstown and further north. Eventually, the Luas Red Line will have to be rebuilt as some sort of Metro as well.

I'm not sure where to start here. How can a purpose built tunnel solely for DART hamper the service

L1011

Hollister11 wrote: »

So what they turf you out if your house even if your paying a mortgage on it.

If required, yes. You are appropriately compensated including costs. Most people don't act like a petulant child about it. If its a widespread CPO there'll be multiple solicitors tarting around their services to argue for better valuations etc.

Cookie_Monster

Hollister11 wrote: »

So what they turf you out if your house even if your paying a mortgage on it.

it's not like you don't get paid above market rates or anything...

Hollister11

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it's not like you don't get paid above market rates or anything...

But if your in negative equity and what they pay doesn't cover the balance on the mortgage.

L1011

Hollister11 wrote: »

But if your in negative equity and what they pay doesn't cover the balance on the mortgage.

It will. All realistic costs are covered. You are left in no worse a position than before.

HonalD

Hollister11 wrote: »

Force people to sell! That's disgusting.

If I was ever issued a CPO there is no way I would comply.

The only complaint about a CPO in Ireland is the legal fees.......;)

(Sorry unless you successfully take the IDA to the Supreme Court, but that's a different story)

end of the road

Hollister11 wrote: »

Force people to sell! That's disgusting.

If I was ever issued a CPO there is no way I would comply.

unfortunately, you wouldn't have a choice.

Hollister11 wrote: »

So what they turf you out if your house even if your paying a mortgage on it.

yes.

Charles Babbage

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Overtaking lanes are needed so the mainline route trains can get out of the way but sadly planning means most of the line has houses build up to a few feet of it and is a complete mess.

This is of course largely true, but not entirely. Some effort is needed here to get cracking on some more track.

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