Well done England as a squad - but I just can't see any outstanding players in their

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England have completely rebuilt after a disastrous world cup. They have played consistently well as a team and should be applauded for their attitude. But I think talk of them being anywhere near New Zealand is ridiculous - which seemed to be the case in the media before they came undone against Ireland.

I just can't see any outstanding players in this England team (apart from Maro Itoje). There are 2-3 younger players who have the potential to be 'elite' - but they are some way off. England have a stronger overall team (and definitely squad) than any northern hemisphere team. But there are still more individually outstanding players in the Ireland and Wales teams - even if some of their form has dipped.

I just don't see any of the likes of Neil back, Richard Hill, Jason Robinson, Martin Johnson and Dallaligo in the ranks. They may be the second best team in the world - but everyone else is still in the rebuilding process for the world cup - which is not an excuse but it's clear they are in transition phases as everything these days is about the '4 year cycle'.  But as England have such a great coaching set-up and structure, I would have expected to have seen true individual quality as they have been playing so well as a team. 

I just can't see 'elite' individual quality in this England team. I bet on England to win the 2003 World Cup two year's before the event. Not because I'm an English fan, but because I wanted to win money. I wouldn't risk any money on this England team winning the 2019 world cup because I just can't see it. I would say that if I was an England fan. 

The reason I post this is because perhaps I am missing something - I'm genuinely trying to be as objective as possible. Any team that can put in performances which are above their natural talents, have to be congratulated - that's the state of mind other team's need to develop. But my original suggested premise still underlies this fact.

Believe me, if I thought otherwise I would have money on England to win. Because 5-1 should be brilliant odds for a team who have gained so many victories - but to me it is not attractive. Ireland are 16-1 which is more generous and I wouldn't rate England's chances much more highly.

I do actually highly rate this England team - but that's mainly structure/coaching/attitude/psychology. They have got that sorted under Eddie Jones which is very worrying for the rest of the northern hemisphere. Because if they did find a few top players, they would be matching the All Blacks who have had those qualities for generations.

BBDBB

I think there is lots of potential to be better players, but the EPL doesn't coach it and Eddie Jones isn't interested in it

The best example of what I mean is Ford, great reader of the game as it unfolds, lovely hands, nippy wee break and his kicking is w here it needs to be.......so they play him out of position

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Thanks for the reply. Could you name any other players who you genuinely think are potentially elite (or world-class - but that's a more debated term). I just can't see it in Ford and I can't see him moving to that level. Normally, even when a player has got the potential you can still see certain traits. Also the players have been playing well, but even with that platform of wins I haven't seen anything individually that strikes me. I guess the coaching may nullify certain skills, but some should have been apparent with so many victories. I am happy to hear contrary opinions - as I bet with my head not heart and always like getting world cup bets on early :-)

BBDBB

Keep your money safe, rather than rely upon my views is my advice

Kruis impressed me, Joseph has talent and Itoje is the real find in recent times, he is a real nuisance

But again, this all relays upon coaching/ practice to bring out the best in them followed by a game plan that exploits that talent

I don't see it from Eddie jones

Neil3030

England have a scarily talented crop of youngsters when you consider the age profiles of Launchbury (25), Itoje (22), Hughes (25), Ford (24), Farrell (25), Daly (24), Joseph (25), Nowell (23), Big Billy (24), Watson (24). Even Marler and Mako (both 26) are young for their position. Sparing injury, there's two more World Cups in each of the above, in some cases possibly even 3.

They have a very simple, but very effective style of play - dominate set piece, beat you up, and then distribute to their wide speedsters with incredible accuracy and speed. But we have seen in this championship that this system can be beaten and they really don't have a plan B. However I think as Farrell and Ford grow older they will build on their experience and gain more authority over the team, read situations on the fly, change the strategy accordingly. They could possibly also do with a more direct option in midfield (Tuilagi?), and back one of the above as their sole general.

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Yes I can see it possibly in Kruis - he has potential world class talents. But he's 27 now and not just an up and coming star. Definitely Itoje. Jonathan Joseph is a good player but he's also 26 and has had enough experience to show whether he's top class. I've heard it said by ex-players so many times that a world cup winning team needs at least half a dozen top draw players to win a world cup. Looking back at the world cups that does seem to be have been nearly always the case (possibly always?). It doesn't mean they all have to be quality - but you really need that type of quality to have a realistic chance of winning.

Dog Botherer

Launchbury, Itoje, Farrell, and Billy Vunipola are all world class, or on their way. Still remain unconvinced by Watson, Ford, Hughes, and JJ. George could be great but it's impossible for him to get a proper run with the fairly mediocre Hartley ahead of him. The rest of the English squad are very good internationals, for the most part. There's a few I don't rate (Marler, Woods, Cole, Haskell, May, Youngs, Hartley obviously) but for the most part they have a consistently international class squad.

Buer

They don't have many brilliant players but they have a group of players that can all be brilliant, if that makes sense.

For example, people often criticise James Haskell. He was a man mountain for them in Australia last summer and the player of the tour. Itoje has consistently been excellent for the duration of his test career. Launchbury had a superb 6N. If his standard drops, they've someone like Kruis to come back in and keep the standard high.

Their 9, 10 and 12 axis are brilliant at guiding them and work very well off the strong platform provided by those in front.

They're certainly greater than the sum of their parts and not near the team of 2001-03 (only a couple of sides anywhere in history are). But they're a very well drilled side who execute well under pressure and do what's needed. They also work incredibly hard which is often overlooked.