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do garda send all allegations of child abuse with no evidence of wrongdoing to DPP

  • 19-03-2017 3:20pm
    #1
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭


    Why do Garda send files to the DPP with just allegations of child abuse with no evidence of any wrongdoing so why do the Garda do this ?


Comments

  • #2
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    Why do Garda send files to the DPP with just allegations of child abuse with no evidence of any wrongdoing so why do the Garda do this ?

    Evidence is what happens in court. Until then, it will always be just an allegation.


  • #3
    9or10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 664 ✭✭✭9or10


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    Why do Garda send files to the DPP with just allegations of child abuse with no evidence of any wrongdoing so why do the Garda do this ?

    When you say "no evidence" presumably there is the compaint/report to - is that not evidence?


  • #4
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    Evidence is what happens in court. Until then, it will always be just an allegation.
    the Garda knew there is not a chance of a Prosecution . as there is no wrongdoing our evidence but the Garda still do this why?. because all this will do is mark up the Innocent Man/Women as there is no case to answers in the first place its like a malicious prosecution. brought with out probable cause to the Innocent person marked for life that is so wrong and its like you have no human rights in Ireland.


  • #5
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    The Gardai don't prosecute tho,at least not for serious offences, is that not a matter for the DPP? Afaik the Gardai merely investigate the allegation and send the file to the dpp's office.


  • #6
    kjbsrah1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭kjbsrah1


    All sexual assault files go to the DPP.


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  • #7
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    9or10 wrote: »
    When you say "no evidence" presumably there is the compaint/report to - is that not evidence?
    there is no victim just a third party Hearsay allegations. which where proven not to be truth before the file is sent to the DPP. there was a absence of evidence there was no case to answer but the Garda still send a file to DPP when the know there is no chance of a Criminal Prosecution as no crime took place .


  • #8
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    kjbsrah1 wrote: »
    All sexual assault files go to the DPP.
    this was not a sexual assault . child abuse is not all sexual .


  • #9
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    there is no victim just a third party Hearsay allegations. which where proven not to be truth before the file is sent to the DPP. there was a absence of evidence there was no case to answer but the Garda still send a file to DPP when the know there is no chance of a Criminal Prosecution as no crime took place .

    But is it not the job of the DPP to make that decision? A allegation is made, it is investigated by the gardai and if under 18 by social services. The file is then sent to the DPP. That is how the process is explained in college anyway. Although most investigations are not that straight forward in fairness


  • #10
    9or10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 664 ✭✭✭9or10


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    there is no victim just a third party Hearsay allegations. which where proven not to be truth before the file is sent to the DPP. there was a absence of evidence there was no case to answer but the Garda still send a file to DPP when the know there is no chance of a Criminal Prosecution as no crime took place .

    In that case - what's your point?

    So the file goes to the DPP for some administrative closure - so what?


  • #11
    AnMuinteoirOg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭AnMuinteoirOg


    The gardai will investigate. Whatever they find will be put into a file and sent to the dpp for a direction on what to do next


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  • #12
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    Owryan wrote: »
    But is it not the job of the DPP to make that decision? A allegation is made, it is investigated by the gardai and if under 18 by social services. The file is then sent to the DPP. That is how the process is explained in college anyway. Although most investigations are not that straight forward in fairness
    but why when the Garda know there is no case to answer and no crime has been committed and yet the Garda still sent a file to dpp there is no case to answer. you then have a case where a innocent law abiding citizen is marked up for life .


  • #13
    AnMuinteoirOg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭AnMuinteoirOg


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    but why when the Garda know there is no case to answer and no crime has been committed and yet the Garda still sent a file to dpp there is no case to answer. you then have a case where a innocent law abiding citizen is marked up for life .

    Because it's not the Gardas job to make that decison. They just gather the evidence to send to the dpp who will make the decision whether there is a case or not


  • #14
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    9or10 wrote: »
    In that case - what's your point?

    So the file goes to the DPP for some administrative closure - so what?
    but why there in no case to answer there is no crime so why do that to a innocent law abiding person Man/Women. when the know there is not a chance of winning a prosecution as no crime took place.


  • #15
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    but why when the Garda know there is no case to answer and no crime has been committed and yet the Garda still sent a file to dpp there is no case to answer. you then have a case where a innocent law abiding citizen is marked up for life .

    Because that is how the system operates. You are claiming that just by being named a file sent to the DPP marks you for life.


  • #16
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    but why there in no case to answer there is no crime so why do that to a innocent law abiding person Man/Women. when the know there is not a chance of winning a prosecution as no crime took place.

    You need to realise that sending a file to the DPP does not automatically result in a proscecution, it can just be an administrative process.


  • #17
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    AnMuinteoirOg wrote: »
    Because it's not the Gardas job to make that decison. They just gather the evidence to send to the dpp who will make the decision whether there is a case or not
    you say gather evidence there is no evidence there is no crime and still the garda sent a file to dpp why? for what ?


  • #18
    Get Real
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Get Real


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    but why there in no case to answer there is no crime so why do that to a innocent law abiding person Man/Women. when the know there is not a chance of winning a prosecution as no crime took place.

    I don't think you're getting it. For more serious cases, the garda has to do this. They simply gather the facts. It is the DPP who decides to prosecute. The gardai might have their own opinion/think it's going nowhere but still have to follow the procedure anyway. They have to remain independent. The dpp decides if there is any evidence to proceed in court.

    A file to the dpp doesn't have any impact on anyone's life unfairly. Facts are put in the file, they decide. 1000s of files per year go to the dpp. That doesn't mean all those people are guilty. I think you're miselinterpreting what that means. It's not a criminal record or anything bad necessarily.

    You talk about human rights, ironically enough, the file being sent to the dpp is to protect your human rights. An independent body makes the decision and has no personal bias.

    Also you mention "winning" a prosecution. I don't think you get it. For big cases, the state prosecutes, not the garda on the ground. They collect facts, send off a file and await instructions. Nothing to do with "winning". It's not some child's game or like csi.


  • #19
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    you say gather evidence there is no evidence there is no crime and still the garda sent a file to dpp why? for what ?


    How do the gardai know there is no crime till they investigate? Perhaps there is evidence that shows that the allegation was made up or the accused had an alibi?

    As has been pointed out numerous times at this stage, and appears to be something you cannot grasp, sending the file to the DPP could be for any number of reasons, not just for the purpose of pursuing a proscecution.


  • #20
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    Owryan wrote: »
    You need to realise that sending a file to the DPP does not automatically result in a proscecution, it can just be an administrative process.
    dpp = director of prosecutions the garda send to them the file to try to get you prosecuted is that not there Job? and why do garda send file with no case /crime to dpp?


  • #21
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    dpp = director of prosecutions the garda send to them the file to try to get you prosecuted is that not there Job? and why do garda send file with no case /crime to dpp?


    Yawn with that im out. Might as well be explaining gravity to a goldfish.


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  • #22
    Get Real
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Get Real


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    dpp = director of prosecutions the garda send to them the file to try to get you prosecuted is that not there Job? and why do garda send file with no case /crime to dpp?

    Director of public prosecutions. And that is only part of the job. They can also direct no prosecution. All they're doing is seeing if there's enough evidence to bring it to court or not. If they believe there is, it'll go to court, that doesn't automatically mean guilt. Hence people can be found not guilty in court.

    They can also direct NOT to prosecute. As explained, the gardai send a file (whether there is a crime or not) to let the dpp decide. It is not the gardas job to decide. A file to the dpp doesn't automatically mean prosecution. They decide simply to proceed or also not to proceed.


  • #23
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    Read this OP it might help answer some of your questions.

    http://www.dppireland.ie/about_us/the-role-of-the-dpp/


  • #24
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    Owryan wrote: »
    How do the gardai know there is no crime till they investigate? Perhaps there is evidence that shows that the allegation was made up or the accused had an alibi?

    As has been pointed out numerous times at this stage, and appears to be something you cannot grasp, sending the file to the DPP could be for any number of reasons, not just for the purpose of pursuing a proscecution.
    investigate before the file is sent to dpp and there was no victim no crime no case nothing to answer so why put any innocent law abiding Man/Women .
    thru hell for 6 to 9 months when the garda know the have no case what so ever from the very start that has to be wrong .


  • #25
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    Owryan wrote: »
    Yawn with that im out. Might as well be explaining gravity to a goldfish.
    so are you tell me 100 per cent case go dpp? can you prove this?


  • #26
    nuac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,769 ✭✭✭nuac


    Mod
    This seems to be a rant against AGS and the court system generally
    You have got reasonable explanations here
    Thread closed.
    Please do not post on this topic again on LD
    (Some of your earlier posts on this forum have been on the same issue)


  • #27
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    investigate before the file is sent to dpp and there was no victim no crime no case nothing to answer so why put any innocent law abiding Man/Women .
    thru hell for 6 to 9 months when the garda know the have no case what so ever from the very start that has to be wrong .

    They have nothing to worry about if they are innocent just let the process happen.


This discussion has been closed.
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