moving my family back into ill parents home

positivenote

HI,
not sure if this is the right section for this but please feel free to move to appropriate thread.

My mam had been in hospital since Christmas and needed some major surgery, which culminated in a diagnosis that is not curable and only treatable. She will need on going weekly treated for what will prob be the rest of her life. She was released from hospital 4 weeks ago and has been staying with us since (my hubby and two young kids 5 and 6 yr/olds). We live in a 3 bed semi that has 19 years left on the mortgage, but we are out of negative equity. The value of our house is about 50-60k more than we owe on it. We are proposing to move back into my mams house (she owns it) and convert a downstairs garage into a room for her with WC facilities to save her having to go up and down stairs, which is proving challanging. We had always intended on moving into mams house and have joked about it for years, but the reality of it all is suddenly upon us.
My sister, my only sibling, lives in the country-side with her young son in her own house (also paying a mortgage). I am just seeking advice on how to legally go about making the move into my mams house as smooth as possible, so that we can look after her and live with her, and eventually when mam does pass away we will be entitled to continue living in her house as our own home.
We want to make renovations to the house prior to moving into it but dont think that my sister should be entitled to half the value of the house after the work has been done and the value increases, as we will be paying for any renovation work

Essentially there re two questions:

• Is there a way, legally, that we can ensure that we can stay living in the house after mam has passed away, being conscious of my sister being entitled to half the house by default (mam has no will made yet)
• Following any renovation work should we sell our current house and use the money we have been putting toward a mortgage into a fund to buy out my sister or rent the house out and let this money go towards reducing our mortgage while we save money towards eventually buying out my sister for her half of the house...

There is one caveat, that being that my sister has been little or no help in caring (or visiting) mam since her illness and we dont get on great to put it lightly, although we do communicate and are in touch she could be seen as difficult and not very considerate of other peoples issues (mam is a classic example)

Again apologies if this is a bit of a minefield, but we are open to all advice and guidance even if it is redirection to a more appropriate person be it citizens advice or a solicitor etc...
THanks

Avatar MIA

One solution would be for your mum to name you sole beneficiaries of the home.

This will possibly lead to family problems down the line, but it doesn't sound like it's a great relationship anyway.

You could get the house valued pre and post amendments and pass 50% of unaltered value to your sibling. That would be voluntary, and will have tax implications, but could be factored into the transfer amount.

BabyWillis

Why not just buy the house off of your mother now while she is alive? Your mother can then just leave the money to both you and your sister in her will.

positivenote

positivenote wrote: »

HI,
not sure if this is the right section for this but please feel free to move to appropriate thread.

My mam had been in hospital since Christmas and needed some major surgery, which culminated in a diagnosis that is not curable and only treatable. She will need on going weekly treated for what will prob be the rest of her life. She was released from hospital 4 weeks ago and has been staying with us since (my hubby and two young kids 5 and 6 yr/olds). We live in a 3 bed semi that has 19 years left on the mortgage, but we are out of negative equity. The value of our house is about 50-60k more than we owe on it. We are proposing to move back into my mams house (she owns it) and convert a downstairs garage into a room for her with WC facilities to save her having to go up and down stairs, which is proving challanging. We had always intended on moving into mams house and have joked about it for years, but the reality of it all is suddenly upon us.
My sister, my only sibling, lives in the country-side with her young son in her own house (also paying a mortgage). I am just seeking advice on how to legally go about making the move into my mams house as smooth as possible, so that we can look after her and live with her, and eventually when mam does pass away we will be entitled to continue living in her house as our own home.
We want to make renovations to the house prior to moving into it but dont think that my sister should be entitled to half the value of the house after the work has been done and the value increases, as we will be paying for any renovation work

Essentially there re two questions:

• Is there a way, legally, that we can ensure that we can stay living in the house after mam has passed away, being conscious of my sister being entitled to half the house by default (mam has no will made yet)
• Following any renovation work should we sell our current house and use the money we have been putting toward a mortgage into a fund to buy out my sister or rent the house out and let this money go towards reducing our mortgage while we save money towards eventually buying out my sister for her half of the house...

There is one caveat, that being that my sister has been little or no help in caring (or visiting) mam since her illness and we dont get on great to put it lightly, although we do communicate and are in touch she could be seen as difficult and not very considerate of other peoples issues (mam is a classic example)

Again apologies if this is a bit of a minefield, but we are open to all advice and guidance even if it is redirection to a more appropriate person be it citizens advice or a solicitor etc...
THanks

Legally it would be easier to move your mum in with you and sell her home now and then all ties with sibling are sorted now and will leave no room for issues in the future. Or course this relies on you home being suitable for conversion for an elderly person and your mum being happy with this scenario. Would be much easier legally but if you want to live in and eventually own the family home this is not an option. I would strongly suggest going for legal advice as your decision could have significant financial and stress related ramifications in the future.

Samuel T. Cogley

While bouncing some ideas about on the interwebz is fine, do you really need to be told you need to speak to a solicitor (and not citizen's advice) about this? Sorry to be blunt but you do need to speak to one.

Bicycle

You need legal advice. And your need your Mum actively involved in the process.

You need a will, you need an enduring power of attorney and you need to think about what happens if your Mum needs to go into a nursing home as her health deteriorates.

Even with the best will in the world, your Mum will probably need more care. You may need to employ home carers (the public system is pretty poor). Who is going to pay for this? Who is going to pay for a nursing home?

But on the other hand, you may be able to claim a carer's allowance for your Mum.

The whole situation is more complex than your post suggests.

positivenote

BabyWillis wrote: »

Why not just buy the house off of your mother now while she is alive? Your mother can then just leave the money to both you and your sister in her will.

The family home is twice the value of our house we couldn't afford to buy it out right.

positivenote

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

While bouncing some ideas about on the interwebz is fine, do you really need to be told you need to speak to a solicitor (and not citizen's advice) about this? Sorry to be blunt but you do need to speak to one.

ah I appreciate it and know this is eventually what will have to happen but Boards is a decent source for getting an initial scope potential possibilities.

Mr McBoatface

Not your decision to make. It's your mother's home and she the one who has to make the decision.

As suggested move your mum to your and ask her to sell her own and split the money (as she see fit) This will also apply to her savings.

Moving to her home even if she sells it to you will cause lots of conflict. If your current home is to small and can't be extended to suit the requirements sell up and get something that can. Use the money she provides you from sale of her own to help finance.

Things can get nasty in these situations with siblings disputing all sorts of things including saving and pensions, who spent what , the sick parent or the carer who took control of the finances with no legal merit.

Water John

In fairness OP, you deserve to be sure of your situation. Solr advice incl your mother. That may mean 2 solrs. Sorry that is the way it is, these days.

As another poster mentioned, be very aware of what happens if she needs to go into a nursing home. The workings of the funding scheme etc.

I'd be very slow to sell my house, without full assurances on the future, irrespective of where ye live.

Avatar MIA

Mr McBoatface wrote: »

... ask her to sell her own and split the money (as she see fit) This will also apply to her savings.

A solution, just not the most tax efficient one.

Water John

Your mother cannot simply divest herself of her assets as it has implications for nursing home care.

Mr McBoatface

Avatar MIA wrote: »

A solution, just not the most tax efficient one.

Depends on the value of the house, nothing saying the mother can't give the children the maximum tax free amount and write a will saying where the rest goes.

Could also reduce the amount of money exposed to the Fair Deal care system if it's ever required

Avatar MIA

Mr McBoatface wrote: »

Depends on the value of the house,

It does, but going on the information given...

Mr McBoatface

Avatar MIA wrote: »

It does, but going on the information given...

Which is very limited and in all fairness probably best not discussed in to much detail on a public forum .

I think the OP can gather its not a simple solution and if they want to care for their mother while making sure their own family are secured it is best to get rock solid legal advice and documents in place.

Not a nice situation to be dealing with on top of everything else but ultimately can be less painful to deal with.

Best of luck OP

Mrs OBumble

OP, its your mother's decision who gets her house after she's died, not yours. You need to be very clear about that.

fepper

I think if the op is willing to put all the work into making her mothers life comfortable and managing her day to day medical and living arrangements,I think her mother would appreciate that and treat her accordingly hopefully

Mr McBoatface

What people think and feel is not relevant and not worth the paper it's written on.

If the OP wants security it will require legal advise/paperwork, consent and agreement from her mother.

A colleague in work took care of his sick mother for 15 years while his siblings lived overseas. Upon her death there was no will and after a legal battle the siblings got an even portion of her home making him a man in his 60's homeless in the process.

No room for if ands or buts , no room for assumptions in matters like this.

Victor

A few points:
* If your mother disposes of her property interests, then the substantial cash balance may affect the Fair Deal nursing home deal and / or pension amount, depending on what pension she is entitled to.
* Banks will tend to only lend against property that they can put a mortgage on. This means the borrower also needs to be the registered owner.
* Banks are slow to lend to pensioners, especially if they are seriously ill.

positivenote wrote: »

The family home is twice the value of our house we couldn't afford to buy it out right.

In an inheritance situation, you only need to afford half of it.

fepper

Mr McBoatface wrote: »

What people think and feel is not relevant and not worth the paper it's written on.

If the OP wants security it will require legal advise/paperwork, consent and agreement from her mother.

A colleague in work took care of his sick mother for 15 years while his siblings lived overseas. Upon her death there was no will and after a legal battle the siblings got an even portion of her home making him a man in his 60's homeless in the process.

No room for if ands or buts , no room for assumptions in matters like this.

What a wonderful family to have,some thanks he got..

Mr McBoatface

fepper wrote: »

What a wonderful family to have,some thanks he got..

Very common occurrence, caused in the main by the parent not willing to accept they will at some stage die or an unwillingness be seen to show favouritism and/or a mistaken believe that all will be grand upon there death. The living have to deal with the consequences.

The siblings not involved in caring for the sick relative often feel the sibling that is the carer is trying to use the situation to thier advantage and "get a free home" They are often motivated not by greed as such but by a feeling that they are somehow being wronged.

I my colleagues case it was greed, he had no children and is unmarried. The estate would have reverted to his siblings or their children upon his death. He would have written a will to cover this. He lost everything mother, family and home... His age prevents him from starting out again.

looksee

You need to get this legally sorted, but I would suggest two things:

1 - Her house is probably your mother's basic security, and may well be needed to fund nursing home care. No one can guarantee what your situation will be tomorrow, or in five years time. You cannot tie up that capital by regarding her house as your property before it is left to you and/or your sister.

2 - Regardless of how helpful or not your sister is, she has equal entitlement to the estate. How you you secure the added value you put onto the house is something you need legal advice on.

Water John

Both are adults, not sure how any one can say that they have entitlement to a parents assets.

The Fair Deal Scheme should be primary in deciding on asset need. That why it needs expert advice.
TMK even if her mother divests herself of her assets. If she needs nursing home care within 5 years, it can be clawed back.

Gangu

Let your mam fund the renovation to suit her needs. Then wait and see what happens. The only other alternative is discussing it with your sister. All other routes are troubling in terms of consequences.

4ensic15

There is a simple enough situation as I see it. the o/p can sell her own house and buy her mothers. rather than pay over the money an unpaid vendor's lien can be registered in favour of the mother. when she dies the o/p will only owe half of the money to the estate. The o/p can pay the mother what she can afford before that of course.

nuac

Mod
OK, thanks for all suggestions, but solicitor time now
Closed