Back to milk ?

The part time boy

Hello all

Seeking yer taughts on the following .

Back story : I own over 100 acres and slurry storage and housing for 130 cows . Only have a 6 unit paulour though with bulk tank for 80 cows. I used to milk 70 cows but sold up 3 years ago as I wanted a change and needed to invest money into farm to keep it going (new palour and roadways)

At the moment : most of the farm goes to meadowing and other stuff. I still claim my sfp . I farming 25 acres my self with dry cattle . I also run my own business which takes up most of my time with only a small bit of time to farming .

My thinking at the moment:

I thinking about getting back into cows in small scale using labour as well as my own.

As I have everything I could start milking 48 cows. I not have to borrow money . 8 rounds in the palour I could swap the dry cattle for heifers with bit of savings to get the cows.

So my quistions is am I mad or is it doable.

The dairy enterprise would have no loans. It not have to pay house bills, phones, car / Jeep costs drawings etc.

I would have to pay 16 k in labour costs however

Apart from about 3k I would not have to draw any money away from the bussincess . However I like to have a decent surplus so I can put it back into the farm. Like to put in new palour and more cows .

Other info : the dry cattle are just about braking even At the moment . Noghing seems to make a decent money apart from milking cows. I know there problems with cows but cows on a bad day trumps cattle on its best day.

I don't want to borrow money so milking 100 cows is not something I want to do at the moment . Future maybe .

Water John

An awful lot of it is, not the amount of time you put into the framing but having the casual labour around to do a lot of the simple chores. If that is a family member, great.
Have the cows in to the parlour in the evening, feed calves etc. Spread a bit of fertiliser.

Sam Kade

48 cows and 16k for labour doesn't leave much room for profit.

The part time boy

That the what I am wondering . I half thinking that but the other half thinking surly a cow with in 50 cow herd would give 500 profit excluding loans, drawings and other personal (bussinces!) expenses like phones and jeeps

Sam Kade

The part time boy wrote: »

That the what I am wondering . I half thinking that but the other half thinking surly a cow with in 50 cow herd would give 500 profit excluding loans, drawings and other personal (bussinces!) expenses like phones and jeeps

Yeah should be around the 500 profit with current milk price.

Username John

Not a dairy farmer, so my input should be taken as such

But it seems
- you don't time to milk cows
- you have another business you need to look after
- you only have facilities to milk 50 cows
- you have more land than will be needed for 50 cows, so you will not be farming all the land anyways (in that you will sell some for silage, erc)
- if you were to go milking 50 cows, you might not even make that much money
- labour could be an issue, as you don't have scale to get a full time person
- it seems you already did your sums 3 years ago, and decided milk was not the way to go...

So, after all this
- what has changed in 3 years to make you think milk is now a good idea?
- with your business head on, do you think this is a viable business proposition?

Again, as a non dairy person, I don't see why you would want to tie yourself to the farm like this, for little of any reward when you have a better setup going on right now...
I can't comment on it being a good or a bad time to start milking, as I have no clue there...

But, what do I know

Best of luck whatever you decide

The part time boy

Username John wrote: »

- labour could be an issue, as you don't have scale to get a full time person


So, after all this
- what has changed in 3 years to make you think milk is now a good idea?
- with your business head on, do you think this is a viable business proposition?

Thanks John

Ya labour is the big thing. Getting the right person is key . Won't work without that . And that may be total bigger problem . I am trying to see is it viable before I cross that bridge . All though a farmer who got dry stock to get 16 k for a few hours work a day sounds tempting if they want to stay farming ...you think

I suppose what's changed is when I got out of coes having no stock or not farming was not a option . Part of the disease of farming I guess. So after 3 years I seeing no return on the 25 acres not that I needed it but I had hoped there would have been some money to be able to revest back into the farm. I was thinking even though the cows might not bring massive return it defo be better than dry stock . But I guess the next question is . Is it worth the hassel.

I also guess part of asking the quistion was I was hoping a guy milling 50 cows with no borrowing could tell me there money or no money in it.

White Clover

Labour is the biggie here. Would the Labour cost you 16k, or is it worth 16k gross or net to the employee? Three different figures there.

The part time boy

Would cost me 16k . Fair point though . Depends on what the person is doing with rest of there time .

Have a person working part time for me in the other business and they pay very little tax .

Labour is the key though your right . This is dead in water without it

Timmaay

Are you long term leasing the other 75ac? Doing that and taking home a full time salary, I really can't see how you'd get anywhere within an asses roar of the take home pay of that.

White Clover

The part time boy wrote: »

Would cost me 16k . Fair point though . Depends on what the person is doing with rest of there time .

Have a person working part time for me in the other business and they pay very little tax .

Labour is the key though your right . This is dead in water without it

Roughly 11 or 12k gross to the employee or a bit less than 250/week. The hours will be small here.

cute geoge

I am milking around that number on only less then 40 acres ,no debt ,6 unit parlour supplying about 230k litres mostly hereford calves .It is a full time job for me feburary to mid may ,i tip away with a bit of contracting for the summer and put my feet up for most of the winter .16k labour would cost 7 cent per litre on 230k litres .imo would you be better off to go into partnership with someone who will get the full potential out of the farm ,with the right man on board 150 cows might be achievable .Maybe You can do a bit of relief milking to give your slave a break now and again

The part time boy

Timmaay wrote: »

Are you long term leasing the other 75ac? Doing that and taking home a full time salary, I really can't see how you'd get anywhere within an asses roar of the take home pay of that.

Some of it is long term . Most on a yearly deal.

Not sure what you mean from above . I only be taking 23 acres of from rent . Still be 70 odd in rental and still money in from job

The part time boy

cute geoge wrote: »

I am milking around that number on only less then 40 acres ,no debt ,6 unit parlour supplying about 230k litres mostly hereford calves .It is a full time job for me feburary to mid may ,i tip away with a bit of contracting for the summer and put my feet up for most of the winter .16k labour would cost 7 cent per litre on 230k litres .imo would you be better off to go into partnership with someone who will get the full potential out of the farm ,with the right man on board 150 cows might be achievable .Maybe You can do a bit of relief milking to give your slave a break now and again

Partnership options have been looked at . I think for long term I say. Also looking at the 48 as a stepping stone .

Don't belive in slaves . Have people working for my other business if you don't treat people right you go no where

Bass Reeves

Would I love tone where you are at that age. FP dream. Really you have to make your mind up and decide if farming is in your future?. Really it's​ a lifestyle choice. God Is love to be there. Sit back close your eyes and and dream or think. Obviously money is not an issue ( I have got to that stage as well I think) so now in your thirties you have to make a hard decision.

Do you continue the family tradition of farming or travel a different route. You have enough intelligence to go the dairying route. You understand the business, know the labour implications (or think you do) but are not in love with it. At the moment you seem to have a few fools ( sorry idiot's) taking meadow's but allowing you to claim the payment. This maybe not last forever but you do not want to lease. You have lost the love of sucklers like any sane person would.

My opinion is that unless you really love dairying and are willing to lease further land , employe foreign nationals and treat it as a ruthless business you either lease or go Into drystock. In a way you have a fabulous opportunity, buy yearling Friesian's at present less than 1.5/KG and carry to store's next spring.it a no brainier, i should do it myself.

bogman_bass

You have a business to run too. Do you want a life away from work?