Planning? Retention?

Changing dreams

So, in a nut shell;

Myself, my wife and our two children (both under two) are currently living out of a double-room in a family members house. We applied for council housing-assistance and we were refused. We still have our letter stating we will not be placed on the housing list or offered housing assistance.

In regards to buying a house the banks will not offer me a loan or mortgage despite the face that I work full time.

However, our local credit union have approved me for a loan of €50,000. Which is enough to have a residential log home constructed on land part-owned by a family member who has given us full permission to do so, and also as the land is half owned by my wife.

For the loan amount I have priced and received written quotes for the work to be done which is to have all heating, plumbing, insulation and electrical work done as well as all safety features.

I did approach the council first and ask what has to be done and they told me about things like access, what space must remain open in the original garden, even down to upgrading the pure flo system.

But heres the thing, Kikdare Co.Co said we have to pay atleast €9,000 and a max of €29,000 as levies. Despite being told that the development costs are €50 per sqm and the house will be 77sqm. And they also said it will take 12 MONTHS for permission. Money I don't have.

I cannot keep my family in a room for another year, so if I went ahead and followed the council guidelines but do NOT apply for planning; what will happen?

Can them demolish what I build?

Can I just do it all and apply for retention?

Will I face a prison term?

Gumbo

You will not get planning permission for a log cabin.
It will not comply with building regulations.

Ask the log cabin company who signs off on the build in compliance with planning and building regulations and I bet you will not get an answer.

Log cabins are glorified sheds/garden rooms.

If you just build you will find yourself in court with a criminal conviction.
Can they demolish it, yes and at your cost on top of what you have already paid out to build it.
Prison term, highly unlikely but conviction will brings its own problems into the future and your kids future.

Changing dreams

kceire wrote: »

You will not get planning permission for a log cabin.
It will not comply with building regulations.

Ask the log cabin company who signs off on the build in compliance with planning and building regulations and I bet you will not get an answer.

Log cabins are glorified sheds/garden rooms.

If you just build you will find yourself in court with a criminal conviction.
Can they demolish it, yes and at your cost on top of what you have already paid out to build it.
Prison term, highly unlikely but conviction will brings its own problems into the future and your kids future.

The company we have been in talks with have said their own architect songs off on the build. The company has been in business since the late 80's. There are atleast 15 log cabins, that people are living in, within a few miles of where I currently live. I even know an elderly couple who are renting out a log cabin for profit.

elperello

You are in a difficult situation but building without PP is not the way out.

Even if you manage to get retention the relevant fees will still have to be paid.

It's only when an application is made that decisions on conditions will be made the guidelines you discussed with the Co Co are only an indication. They can vary from planner to planner and a you could end up with a different set of conditions with even more expense.

Changing dreams

elperello wrote: »

You are in a difficult situation but building without PP is not the way out.

Even if you manage to get retention the relevant fees will still have to be paid.

It's only when an application is made that decisions on conditions will be made the guidelines you discussed with the Co Co are only an indication. They can vary from planner to planner and a you could end up with a different set of conditions with even more expense.

Oh no, please don't think I'm trying to dodge the construction levies! I'm aware that they will have to be paid and KCC allow payments to be spread over years. I just primarily mean I cannot wait another year of living in a room.

nosilver

As some people don't understand that a "log" home can be built to all regulations, its best to say you are looking to build a pre-fabricated home.
That it may or may not have a log finish is not important at this juncture.

You are probably best to have a meeting with a local planning agent (ask a local estate agent) and ask their opinion rather than ask people here.

Kildare cc are quite strict, but with it being on family land and local need, may help.

As for building without permission, you could do this, but it does cause a lot of issues in long run.

Highly unlikely for prosecution unless you are extremely stubborn and refuse to adhere to many notices they send including enforcement notices.

One option and possibly one to think of is for the family member who owns the land to apply to build a small dwelling on the land in their name and connected to their services and you to build it - this may make planning easier. Not sure if the same development levies would apply. Again, a local planner will know the answer.

Changing dreams

nosilver wrote: »

As some people don't understand that a "log" home can be built to all regulations, its best to say you are looking to build a pre-fabricated home.
That it may or may not have a log finish is not important at this juncture.

You are probably best to have a meeting with a local planning agent (ask a local estate agent) and ask their opinion rather than ask people here.

Kildare cc are quite strict, but with it being on family land and local need, may help.

As for building without permission, you could do this, but it does cause a lot of issues in long run.

Highly unlikely for prosecution unless you are extremely stubborn and refuse to adhere to many notices they send including enforcement notices.

One option and possibly one to think of is for the family member who owns the land to apply to build a small dwelling on the land in their name and connected to their services and you to build it - this may make planning easier. Not sure if the same development levies would apply. Again, a local planner will know the answer.

We spoke with a pre-planning officer in KCC and it was there that we were told about leaving atleast 50sqm of space open at the back of the house, about upgrading the pure flo to cater for 11 people (even tho there will be half that amount of people), safety features, disabled access and so on. I fully intend on following each and every guideline from that meeting. I just cannot wait another year. were having a foundation constructed also.

I was just afraid that I might have to demolish it and go back to being, in effect, homeless if I didn't apply for planning first.

elperello

Changing dreams wrote: »

Oh no, please don't think I'm trying to dodge the construction levies! I'm aware that they will have to be paid and KCC allow payments to be spread over years. I just primarily mean I cannot wait another year of living in a room.

That's ok.

You couldn't get out of paying anyway and the KCC payment plan sounds like it will suit you.

So you have a builder/supplier and the Co Co have indicated that they will grant PP in principle. The 12 month timeframe seems very long if there are no objections, appeals or requests for further information. Maybe the Co Co just gave 12 months as a max and in practice it will be shorter. Seems the best thing to do is get on and apply.

As for accommodation while you wait, its probably best to put up with it rather than move out to a rental. You can save the money to put into the house. Once you start the process hopefully things will move along and it won't seem so bad.

nosilver

From what little I know, planning takes 3 months if the application does not require extra information.
There's a 30 day appeal window and if no appeal you can effectively start building immediately.

If it requires further information and if someone puts in an appeal and then an bord pleanalla are involved, it COULD take a year.

The preplanning seems to have been very favourable which is unusual for kildare, so that's very positive.

If you and the family member that owns the site are on good terms with all neighbours, that would stop objections - but expect one or two anyway.

As for septic tank - yes that and other conditions will be attached, but that could be the very last thing you do - and that could be well after you move in.

If you were lucky, and you got plans in by early April, you could be living there by September.

In the meantime, you could put in a garden room/glorified shed for daytime / evening lounging space without planning required. (25 sq m I think is the limit and it can't have bedroom or kitchen). This would also be a nice extra to have anyway and something suitable for summer lounging would not be a crazy price.

Gumbo

nosilver wrote: »

As some people don't understand that a "log" home can be built to all regulations, its best to say you are looking to build a pre-fabricated home.
That it may or may not have a log finish is not important at this juncture.

You are probably best to have a meeting with a local planning agent (ask a local estate agent) and ask their opinion rather than ask people here.

Kildare cc are quite strict, but with it being on family land and local need, may help.

As for building without permission, you could do this, but it does cause a lot of issues in long run.

Highly unlikely for prosecution unless you are extremely stubborn and refuse to adhere to many notices they send including enforcement notices.

One option and possibly one to think of is for the family member who owns the land to apply to build a small dwelling on the land in their name and connected to their services and you to build it - this may make planning easier. Not sure if the same development levies would apply. Again, a local planner will know the answer.

nosilver wrote: »

From what little I know, planning takes 3 months if the application does not require extra information.
There's a 30 day appeal window and if no appeal you can effectively start building immediately.

If it requires further information and if someone puts in an appeal and then an bord pleanalla are involved, it COULD take a year.

The preplanning seems to have been very favourable which is unusual for kildare, so that's very positive.

If you and the family member that owns the site are on good terms with all neighbours, that would stop objections - but expect one or two anyway.

As for septic tank - yes that and other conditions will be attached, but that could be the very last thing you do - and that could be well after you move in.

If you were lucky, and you got plans in by early April, you could be living there by September.

In the meantime, you could put in a garden room/glorified shed for daytime / evening lounging space without planning required. (25 sq m I think is the limit and it can't have bedroom or kitchen). This would also be a nice extra to have anyway and something suitable for summer lounging would not be a crazy price.

Ok so by your own admission, you know very little about the planning process so I'll clarify some time frames.

Planning takes 8 weeks.
Then a 4 week appeal period.
Then a 2 week notice to building control notifiying them of commencement.
This is all subject to any alterations or conditions that are required to be complied with PRIOR to commencement.

The log cabin that "not many people understand" in your words, as the op quoted 50k, will not comply with our building regulations.

Part B, Part L at a minimum. Part M access can be achieved easily.
Also, to state that the log finish is immaterial at this stage is an understatement, the planner WILL required detailed sections and elevations of the proposed finish to the dwelling.

Your experience of Plan Enf seems outdated also, you do not get many notices, you may get. A few letters telling you that you have particular time frames to comply, but once you get the first notice, it's from that time onwards you are now liable for all costs to date from the opening of the file and you will find yourself in court if you don't comply.

OP, do you care to post the company that state that their log cabins comply with our building regulations for new dwellings please, I haven't come across one yet

Now, that's not to say a 'log' style cabin cannot comply, but it will simply be a log clad exterior over a tradition timber frame/block structure and now you are into standard construction costs.

I would be having detailed discussions with these suppliers and also with whoever is proposed to sign off on the dwelling, and who is lodging you planning application.