About to go to the dark side

bmwguy

After only ever owning petrol I have decided to go diesel. My mileage has gone up a lot to well over 20k miles p.a. (long drives) and I can claim VAT back on the diesel. I am moving on from my e39 525i and the logical place is an e60. I drove 520d and 523i last week and to be honest wasn't blown away. Drove a 525d a while ago too I think it was struggling with a problem to be honest.

Yesterday I went to see a 530d m sport and took it for a few hours, I was blown away by it. Great car. Might not buy that particular one he is looking too much money but defo going to pick one up. I'm going to push a hard bargain on one, looking for a decent spec, has to be sport though! Plan is to buy for 5k, drive it for 3 years paying 4.5k in tax and whatever I get back for it so be it then.

CalamariFritti

The 5 series is a big car but the 3l diesel engine is more than adequate.

drunkmonkey

Why has it to be an msport, it's not near as comfortable and usually Irish sport spec means all the nice things were sacrificed.
What's the budget, that €1500 tax gets painful quickly, f10 could be the way to go.
I've an f10 530 and had a e60 530 before that. Been trouble free motoring and eats the road.

wersal gummage

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why has it to be an msport

The non sport e60 looks terrible in my opinion, particularly with the wheels that most of them seem to be on. Looks very old and dated now, whereas the sport still looks sharp I think. Similar view of the F10, think they look very poor in the basic spec. Obviously this is all subjective

drunkmonkey

I'd be more concerned about what's on the inside and under the bonnet. It's a choice between boy racer looks or gadgets and comfort.

wersal gummage

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about what's on the inside and under the bonnet. It's a choice between boy racer looks or gadgets and comfort.

As I said, it is subjective as to what sort of car someone prefers. You obviously prefer the non sport look, which I can understand if you simply said that. However, I find everything you've said to be rubbish. A bmw sport model is for boy racers?!

The basic spec cars have better 'gadgets' ?! How many 518d se spec cars are loaded with "gadgets"? Don't know how many of the basic spec e60s I saw with cloth seats, never mind anything else.

Obviously you would only buy a car in good mechanical condition, are you suggesting that what is under the bonnet of a non sport model car is somehow superior to the sports ones? (same everything under the bonnet). If you are saying, for equal money it's better to buy a mechanically sound basic model over a knackered sport model, well obviously.

drunkmonkey

No I'm saying from what I've viewed if someone lumped for the body kit and some m badges on the inside something else has been sacraficied. e60 is now in boy racer land I think the standard ones looks a little more mature as it ages because of that. There nearly all 520d's anyway, hardly what you could call sporty, bodykit or not.

bmwguy

To answer your question it's about looks, absolutely. I consider them 2 different cars, I wouldn't even consider a non sport model on an e39, e60 or f10. Haven't seen the new one in non sport yet so won't comment on it.

As for tax, doesn't bother me I have been in 1000+ tax cars for last 10 years starting with a 530i I bought in 07 or 08. It's total ownership cost I look at not any one element and an 06 530d just fits the bill at the moment. I will move on to f10 in due course.

As a matter of interest what would I be losing by going sport instead of SE?

CalamariFritti

Its all a matter of taste. Me personally I think the sports trim is OK but the M sports body modifications look a bit garish. And I find the E39 is a better looking car than the E60 no matter what trim. Could never take to the E60. Same with the E46 & E90 imo.
F1x (and F3x) is different however, they are good looking cars again. F10 suffers a bit from the fact that there's so many of them but hey who cares. Also those cars are much cheaper to run than their E60 or E90 brothers. So what I'm saying is if it was me who is musing about a new one I'd stick with the E39 until I could afford an F10. And sport yeah but M sport meh.

commited

Interested re your thoughts on how the e60 compares to your e39? I drove a 523i e60 years ago when thinking about replacing my 530d e39 at the time and it depressed me. Is the 530d e60 a step up from the e39?

bmwguy

commited wrote: »

Interested re your thoughts on how the e60 compares to your e39? I drove a 523i e60 years ago when thinking about replacing my 530d e39 at the time and it depressed me. Is the 530d e60 a step up from the e39?

Both were sports. The e39 I have is a 2004 525i sport and the e60 was a 2006 530d.

Power: e60 was miles ahead. Bigger engine, much more torque and felt way more powerful.

Comfort: Lately I just feel my e39 is very raw, can feel imperfections on the road etc, very firm setup. E60 was the more comfortable and probably quieter inside. Feels a bigger car too.

Steering: prefer the heavy feel of the e39 steering I have to say. Feels meatier, more solid but the e60 wasn't bad.

After I gave back the e60 I drove my e39 later and am still very fond of it. But I can't keep it forever and only planned to keep it a year, it's nearly 4 I have it now. It's also my second e39, I had a 530i sport for 3 years before this one.

It's just my mileage increase and the fact I can get VAT back on diesel now makes it time for a change.

If my insurance goes up significantly though with a 530d I will be looking at getting a spin in a few e60 525d.

But this is not the first time my plan to change out of my e39 might fall through. I almost bought a 45k 330e last year!

_Kaiser_

I'd really consider looking outside BMW to be honest. Having had a few E60 525d and 530d as loaners, they weren't a patch on my 3.0 TDI Quattro A6. The A6 is bigger, more comfortable, better laid out and just a nicer place to be IMO. The equivalent E Class is also worth considering. Again a very nice place to be for commuting.

Just my 2c. If you're set on a BMW then definitely get a 530d, but it might be an opportunity to look at (IMO better) alternatives as well.

bmwguy

A6 absolutely I would consider. E class, no.

commited

A face-lift w211 320cdi is definitely worth a test drive before you discard it!
I test drove an 05 a6 3.0tdi Quattro and it was an absolute rocket, very very impressive acceleration.

drunkmonkey

bmwguy wrote: »

As a matter of interest what would I be losing by going sport instead of SE?

That's the point I was trying to make, you would be losing nothing only an msport cosmetic kit. You could be gaining a lot more useful things like way better lights for example.

Take an SE and a msport for a drive, you'll find the SE a lot more comfortable to drive.

If your looking at an e60 there was LCI model introduced in early 07, that's what you should be looking for. You'll know the difference when you look at the gear stick.

_Kaiser_

commited wrote: »

I test drove an 05 a6 3.0tdi Quattro and it was an absolute rocket, very very impressive acceleration.

Could have been my old one It was pretty nippy alright!

The newer version I have is still fast but I reckon the original owner of the last one must have remapped it as my current one doesn't jump through the gears half as fast!

bmwguy

OK to update, I have been busy test driving a few cars over last few days and have a dilemma here that has been discussed to death. I have really grown to like the e60 like I never thought I would, I will be happy to move into any of them.

I have driven 2 examples of the 523i, they can be got for very cheap, 1080 tax, obviously petrol mpg but the 2 cars I found in best condition and by far the lowest mileage were 523i, (plenty of 06 models under 100k miles) beautiful cars both of them and I still have the straight six petrol engine which is nice. Probably a shade less power than my e39 but to be honest its still plenty fast enough for me these cars are cruisers not boy racers so that doesn't bother me. I even get a 100 euro refund from my insurance.One is in a dealership (actually my favourite car of the lot) which also gives the option of moving my e39 without hassle.

Onto the diesels, all 06 models so pre timing chain problem era, the 520d is the most sensible choice. Lower tax, 710 euro, better mpg than 523i and I can claim back the VAT on the diesel. Saw and drove a few of these I liked, but none had the wow factor of the 523i super condition cars I saw. Plus they were all silver with black leather which is a bit boring. 200 euro refund on insurance too. All higher mileage though.

Now, the best car of the lot is the 530d but the tax is 1494. Power is very impressive. Insurance stays the same as e39 525i which surprised me. Higher mileage too but as with 520d I could claim VAT back on fuel.About same price if not a bit lower than most 520d I saw.

Have set myself a date of Monday 3rd April to buy my new car, subject to whichever one I want checking out with my mechanic.One thing on my mind is diesel cars might get taxed out of existence in next year or so, especially the 530d, which is stretching it a lot even at the minute

So, in summary, 520d is the sensible choice that 90% of 5 series purchasers bought in last 10 years, 530d is an absolute beast but I have the choice of 2 immaculately kept 2.5 petrol 523i which are cheaper to purchase than the others and in better condition (no potential turbo problem too).

I'm leaning towards staying petrol to be honest what are others opinions on this?

Foxhole Norman

The Petrol sixes definitely suit the E60 down to the ground, I hated the facelift 520d I drive, it was a manual and the manual boxes just don't suit the diesels in my opinion!

bmwguy

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

The Petrol sixes definitely suit the E60 down to the ground, I hated the facelift 520d I drive, it was a manual and the manual boxes just don't suit the diesels in my opinion!

I didn't test any manuals at all far prefer the auto I have been in auto for 8 of last 10 years.
Automatic, sport, great condition, good price is all I ask for. There are a few out there ticking the boxes, not loads but enough to get what I want. UK not an option they are far cheaper here when you factor in VRT plus flights and ferry. Not in the 4-6k bracket I am shopping in.

_Kaiser_

I'd still suggest trying a tiptronic 3.0 TDI Quattro A6 before you settle on the E60. There really is no comparison IMO

166man

Only you will know what you can afford.

Forget the road tax, it's more or less not relevant here.

If you afford to do the increased mileage in the petrol then buy petrol, again you need to work out the costs and figure it out.

I wouldn't bother with a 530d, as above, I'd drive other cars and look at something else.

bmwguy

166man wrote: »

Only you will know what you can afford.

Forget the road tax, it's more or less not relevant here.

If you afford to do the increased mileage in the petrol then buy petrol, again you need to work out the costs and figure it out.

I wouldn't bother with a 530d, as above, I'd drive other cars and look at something else.

I think they will all end up costing in around the same to own to be honest within 1-2k of each other over 3 years which is negligible.

520d dearest to buy cheapest to tax, cheapest to fuel, 530d dearest to tax, middle to buy, middle to fuel, 523i dearest to fuel but cheapest to buy middle to tax

I can afford them all ok, I usually don't fret over costs of cars but I'm self employed now so my view on spending money on all things has changed! Must go back PAYE!

Cee-Jay-Cee

bmwguy wrote: »

One thing on my mind is diesel cars might get taxed out of existence in next year or so, especially the 530d, which is stretching it a lot even at the minute

This is not going to happen as it would be political suicide for whoever introduces it but if it does happen it will be very slow and very gradual and whatever you buy now will be long gone by the time it makes any difference. Too many idiots people have bought diesel cars purely because of the tax and even though it may only be an increase of €50 a year, it would cause massive uproar from all quarters.

wersal gummage

bmwguy wrote: »

523i, they can be got for very cheap, 1080 tax, obviously petrol mpg but the 2 cars I found in best condition and by far the lowest mileage were 523i, (plenty of 06 models under 100k miles)

Mind me asking what sort of price?

Hoping to offload an 2005 523i e60 sport with 100k miles in next month or two, well looked after service history etc. With a fresh nct would 2k be about right?

Stallingrad

Funny, was never a fan of the E60, but was passed by a silver M-Sport today. Looks great from the rear 3/4, such a nice stance and proportions. Definitely has a substance missing from the F10. No way will a F10 look as fresh as the E60 in 10 years.

BMW is stuck once again in a pre Bangle era style of design, they need to shake it up again.

bmwguy

wersal gummage wrote: »

Mind me asking what sort of price?

Hoping to offload an 2005 523i e60 sport with 100k miles in next month or two, well looked after service history etc. With a fresh nct would 2k be about right?

Yeah no problem for an 06 with miles a small bit less than yours I am looking at 3500-4000. Everything else sounds the same, almost a year NCT, sport model. I'm looking at very clean ones though, full leather so if yours is clean too you might be well able to get 2500 or close to it.

bmwguy

Stallingrad wrote: »

Funny, was never a fan of the E60, but was passed by a silver M-Sport today. Looks great from the rear 3/4, such a nice stance and proportions. Definitely has a substance missing from the F10. No way will a F10 look as fresh as the E60 in 10 years.

BMW is stuck once again in a pre Bangle era style of design, they need to shake it up again.

F10 m sport might. A clean e39 m sport still looks relatively fresh today. The standard car certainly does not. Same goes for e60.

That's why they are a fair bit dearer when they are old, about a 25% premium on them although you are talking small money here.

Anyone want to buy a silver e39 525i sport (just needs a new front bumper)