Turbo users - Poll

EC1000

To those who have access to a TT and road bike - what do you use on the turbo? TT all year round / mixture of both? Is there any merit at all to using a road bike on the turbo if you have a TT bike and are only racing triathlons?

For some reason I've tended to turbo on the road bike over winter and the TT over summer but am rethinking this now and considering just turbo-ing on the TT all the time....

Does the possibility of damaging a nice shiny TT (and probably more expensive than the road) bike come into it?

mossym

Both

tt bike all the way. over winter teh tt bile is permanently mounted on teh turbo, have a direct drive unit so no back tire required. road bike used for all outside rides.

summer, during race season, only use the turo for the over ftp efforts, which only make sense to do on the tt.

woody1

TT bike all the way

crummy banger of a road bike stuck onto mine.. i tried to sell it but no one wants it so out of handiness more than anything ive left it on the turbo..

i dont have the most expensive tt bike in the world but yes i would be wary of putting it on the turbo even though theres probably no logic to it

Fazz

Both

90%+ of my bikes on turbo. All on tt bike winter or summer.

Reasons:
- safety
- time savings
- specificity
- race temp/nutritinn/hydration testing avail
- no traffic issues


But I love cycling outdoors. Nearly makes races even more enjoyable :-)

BTH

I have an old road bike with clip on bars on the turbo, permanently stuck there. I have the turbo itself raised and no block under the front wheel so the seat post is rotated forward so my position mimics that of my TT bike. Only problem is I don't use it enough.......

tegerman

I would be wary of sticking an expensive bike on a turbo. The turbo trainer itself won't damage the bike but the large volumes of sweat will. I tried putting my TT bike on it last year. Sweat managed to get in through the headtube, flowed down the downtube and pooled in the bottom bracket area where it proceeded to corrode numerous pieces of plastic and metal. Internal brake cables also had to be replaced.
Reverted to my old road bike this year and literally anything on it that can corrode is showing visual signs.

mossym

Both

that's why you put a towel over the head tube to soak up the sweat, and wipe it down with a different towel afterwards.

peter kern

to expand on this
road shoes or triathlon shoes on the turbo
or both ?
i guess that is almost as important ;-)

Fazz

Both

peter kern wrote: »

to expand on this
road shoes or triathlon shoes on the turbo
or both ?
i guess that is almost as important ;-)

Whichever shoes you plan on racing at least 50% of time to ensure comfort.
After that if you've other spare ones to use instead but ensuring cleat fit is same to avoid fit differences.

Currently on the fence of swapping from tri shoes to road shoes for long course myself.
There's another question :-D

EC1000

Fazz wrote: »

Currently on the fence of swapping from tri shoes to road shoes for long course myself.
There's another question :-D

I'm happy for you to take the thread down this road if you like, I've gotten what I looked for when starting it. The results are fairly clear cut (of a sample of 22 fairly regular and experienced posters):

5 Road bike only
5 Both road and TT bike
12 TT bike only

So only 20-25% of people don't put their TT bike on the turbo and 55% use only their TT bike on the Turbo.....

peter kern

EC1000 wrote: »

I'm happy for you to take the thread down this road if you like, I've gotten what I looked for when starting it. The results are fairly clear cut (of a sample of 22 fairly regular and experienced posters):

5 Road bike only
5 Both road and TT bike
12 TT bike only

So only 20-25% of people don't put their TT bike on the turbo and 55% use only their TT bike on the Turbo.....

at the end of the day this is one of the very low priority deciders of performance which bike you use from october to march and still quite a low decider after . the only thing that matter can you ride 95% or so of an race on the tt bar. kienle does pretty much all his training on road bike. and there is people that dont even have a road bike.
i guess the best advice in a way you got from bth how he places his bike on the turbo.
so in the importance of peroframce its not really in the top 30
what is improtant is that both bikes fit well.

EC1000

peter kern wrote: »

at the end of the day this is one of the very low priority deciders of performance which bike you use from october to march and still quite a low decider after . the only thing that matter can you ride 95% or so of an race on the tt bar. kienle does pretty much all his training on road bike. and there is people that dont even have a road bike.
i guess the best advice in a way you got from bth how he places his bike on the turbo.
so in the importance of peroframce its not really in the top 30
what is improtant is that both bikes fit well.

Agree entirely. My difficulty is generally finding enough time for any bike, never mind which bike. Going long for the first time later this year and generally planning on riding on the drops for as much of my training as possible. Was hesitant about putting my relatively new and shiny bike on the turbo but going to go for it out of necessity...

Fazz

Both

peter kern wrote: »

kienle does pretty much all his training on road bike.

Where did you hear this Peter?

I highly doubt it.
From seeing social media he is on TT bike a lot outdoors.
In fact for the last month himself and The Hoff have been outdoors on TT bike a hell of a lot.
Also has it setup indoors for turbo sets.

Plus, you don't get as good, aero, or as fast as Kienle on a TT bike without training accordingly.

Fazz

Both

peter kern wrote: »

at the end of the day this is one of the very low priority deciders of performance which bike you use from october to march and still quite a low decider after . the only thing that matter can you ride 95% or so of an race on the tt bar. kienle does pretty much all his training on road bike. and there is people that dont even have a road bike.
i guess the best advice in a way you got from bth how he places his bike on the turbo.
so in the importance of peroframce its not really in the top 30
what is improtant is that both bikes fit well.

You've contradicted yourself in your answer.

- very low priority deciders of performance which bike you use Oct to March

- only thing that matters is can you ride 95% of bike on tt bars.

You don't magically get this ability to ride 95% on tt bars without training it.
Perhaps not all winter but certainly more than a few weeks ahead of race season.

There are so many triathletes with poor aero position that I'd say a lot of is down to lack of practice, lack of necessary flexibility work, lack of dedication to tt position.
Literally giving up minutes each race.

Granted some are better than others, and some need less tt time than others. But most could do with more tt time on turbo/road to improve overall comfort and aerodynamics.


But there is a caveat.

Whether we like it or not our roads are not conducive to enabling lots of TT bike practice.
Weather conditions, rough surfaces, narrow roads and road safety all leads most to use the road bike for outdoor bikes.
There's not a lot of return to being outdoors on tt bike when +75% of it is on the aerobars and not in tt position (due to weather, safety, not long enough stretches etc).

And most hate the turbo.

End result - not enough tt position practice.
Sitting up during races etc.

So I'd disagree with your statement, and say there's a heck of a lot of low hanging fruit for most if they trained on the TT bike more on the turbo.

BennyMul

personally I use the TT bike on rollers for most IM or 1/2 IM efforts, (not Turbo) I find once I can hold this effort on the TT bars it transfers to the road nicely, once I move to higher intensity work I move the bike to the turbo for fear of a good fall

this is of course based on actually riding the bike.

peter kern

Fazz wrote: »

Where did you hear this Peter?

I highly doubt it.


From seeing social media he is on TT bike a lot outdoors.
In fact for the last month himself and The Hoff have been outdoors on TT bike a hell of a lot.
Also has it setup indoors for turbo sets.

Plus, you don't get as good, aero, or as fast as Kienle on a TT bike without training accordingly.

google slowtwitch
road bike vs tt bike rappstar ( he always uses kienle to suport his road bike arguement)
there must be 100 threads about it. this an never ending storry ...


and then you have some of the best coaches in triathlon letting their athletes do cross country sking over the winter ...
spirig and other sutton athletes
boecherer ( who has the same coach as sebastian kienle)
and krueger who has pretty much coached every danish athlete that has been any good in the last 20 years)
if my ankles would take it i would do loads of inline skating with crosscountry poles over the winter. (works well for swimming too )
ice skating and rowing would would very well too if one fancies
or the other way round most biathletes do loads of cycling over the summer.
dahlmair who won i think pretty much every race in biathlon this year does sometimes 250 k a day on a mtb.
ie you need specifity but not the whole year round and you tend to burn out less if you mix it up with similar sports.
.

BTH

Ah, but we're not that into the cross country skiing here in Connemara.

peter kern

BTH wrote: »

Ah, but we're not that into the cross country skiing here in Connemara.

what aobut sailing ;-)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/28/sports/new-zealand-sailing-bicycle-stations.html?_r=0

Fazz

Both

https://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering-field-notes/rider-discomfort-adapting-to-the-tt-tri-position?platform=facebook&contentlabel=Pseries%2CEngineering-Field-notes

As a coincidence.

Peter I found that thread you referred to. Something like 90% of Kienle's biking according to Rapp.
Well, that may be true for a small portion of the season, or may be true as he does so many hours on the bike but there's not a hope in hell the most aerodynamic triathlete isn't spending a large portion of his time in the tt position.
Perhaps he switches it up to be dominant depending on season.

More likely he uses his road bike when out on hills and so on, and tt bike when on turbo or when road suits it or nearer races. Road bike for group rides obviously like rest of us mostly.


Another point may be have you ever seen a pro with their road bike on the turbo?
I don't think I have. Always the tt bike.

pgibbo

Both

peter kern wrote: »

google slowtwitch
road bike vs tt bike rappstar ( he always uses kienle to suport his road bike arguement)
there must be 100 threads about it. this an never ending storry ...


and then you have some of the best coaches in triathlon letting their athletes do cross country sking over the winter ...
spirig and other sutton athletes
boecherer ( who has the same coach as sebastian kienle)
and krueger who has pretty much coached every danish athlete that has been any good in the last 20 years)
if my ankles would take it i would do loads of inline skating with crosscountry poles over the winter. (works well for swimming too )
ice skating and rowing would would very well too if one fancies
or the other way round most biathletes do loads of cycling over the summer.
dahlmair who won i think pretty much every race in biathlon this year does sometimes 250 k a day on a mtb.
ie you need specifity but not the whole year round and you tend to burn out less if you mix it up with similar sports.
.

XC skiing has been a go to winter sport for athletes for a long time. Fantastic way to work your engine. I remember Irish rowing squads doing it in the 90s.

I also recall Dev on ST saying he always has his highest FTP after a season of XC skiing. He fails to hold it that high with biking alone after the season ends.

peter kern

at the same time one of the most un aero pros used to spend almost 100% on a tt bike ;-)

Fazz wrote: »

https://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering-field-notes/rider-discomfort-adapting-to-the-tt-tri-position?platform=facebook&contentlabel=Pseries%2CEngineering-Field-notes

As a coincidence.

Peter I found that thread you referred to. Something like 90% of Kienle's biking according to Rapp.
Well, that may be true for a small portion of the season, or may be true as he does so many hours on the bike but there's not a hope in hell the most aerodynamic triathlete isn't spending a large portion of his time in the tt position.
Perhaps he switches it up to be dominant depending on season.

More likely he uses his road bike when out on hills and so on, and tt bike when on turbo or when road suits it or nearer races. Road bike for group rides obviously like rest of us mostly.


Another point may be have you ever seen a pro with their road bike on the turbo?
I don't think I have. Always the tt bike.

peter kern

I also recall Dev on ST saying he always has his highest FTP after a season of XC skiing. He fails to hold it that high with biking alone after the season ends.[/QUOTE]
i guess when he is sking thats the only time he dosnt write one of his 40000 or so posts on ST ;-)

Fazz

Both

peter kern wrote: »

at the same time one of the most un aero pros used to spend almost 100% on a tt bike ;-)

I'm gonna guess you're referring to Potts on this one?

He has made some schoolboy errors like the time he raced kona on Gatorskins...


I see your Andy Potts.... and I raise you Lionel Sanders.... :pac::D:D;)

Both 100% on TT bike Indoors.
2 very different animals on the bike!
But goes to show as per Lionel's recent fit changes that even the top Pro's can make improvements to position and so on.

peter kern

sounds like we are agreed, both are perfect examples that you can sit horribly on a bike doing loads of turbo sessions on tt bike
and sit perfectly on a bike and spending much less time over 12 month on a tt bike like kienle .

perosnally i was once all tt bike proponent but for instance this year i have used the tt bike twice on a turbo and actually actively wanted to use the road bike on turbo using the glutes more
and depending on your positon on tt bike there is a chance that you use glutes less as you tend to get more quad dominant if oyu ride steeper on tt bike.

Fazz wrote: »

I'm gonna guess you're referring to Potts on this one?

He has made some schoolboy errors like the time he raced kona on Gatorskins...


I see your Andy Potts.... and I raise you Lionel Sanders.... :pac::D:D;)

Both 100% on TT bike Indoors.
2 very different animals on the bike!
But goes to show as per Lionel's recent fit changes that even the top Pro's can make improvements to position and so on.

pgibbo

Both

I guess Sebi answers your questions in the first 5 minutes here

peter kern

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Tri_Bike_by_brand/Scott/Kienle_opts_for_a_SCOTT_Foil_in_Cannes_6306.html


its aobut time for another tt or road bike thread ;-)