How to find out how a flight was cancelled?

cagefactor

Anyone can find out why KL936 was cancelled on the 5th of march ? Delayed me for hours getting to final destination.

Locker10a

No not really, didn't the airline tell you ?

sparrowcar

cagefactor wrote: »

Anyone can find out why KL936 was cancelled on the 5th of march ? Delayed me for hours getting to final destination.

Allegedly:

The onboard medical supplies were used on the inbound flight due to a medical emergency. The relevant/regulation supplies could not be replenished in DUB so the decision was taken to canx the flight and ferry the aircraft back to AMS.

WishUWereHere

sparrowcar wrote: »

Allegedly:

The onboard medical supplies were used on the inbound flight due to a medical emergency. The relevant/regulation supplies could not be replenished in DUB so the decision was taken to canx the flight and ferry the aircraft back to AMS.

Really? Wow, I would have thought there is a standard stock issue as to medical supplies in any airport.

Car99

WishUWereHere wrote: »

sparrowcar wrote: »

Allegedly:

The onboard medical supplies were used on the inbound flight due to a medical emergency. The relevant/regulation supplies could not be replenished in DUB so the decision was taken to canx the flight and ferry the aircraft back to AMS.

Really? Wow, I would have thought there is a standard stock issue as to medical supplies in any airport.

Aircraft spares including first aid equipment have to be approved certified traceable for that aircraft type and in accordance with the aircraft operators procedures in the same way as any aircraft spare part has to be. You can't just buy something similar and put it on board.
So if the items used needed to be on board for the aircraft to operate legally then the aircraft can't be given a certificate of release to service until said items are installed on the aircraft to take it above minimum equipment levels.

Noxegon

I find it interesting that they'd choose to ferry empty. Given the number of daily flights between AMS and DUB I'd have thought that it wouldn't have been that hard to send the required pack across from AMS with a competitor and have a two/three hour delay rather than an outright cancellation.

sparrowcar

Noxegon wrote: »

I find it interesting that they'd choose to ferry empty. Given the number of daily flights between AMS and DUB I'd have thought that it wouldn't have been that hard to send the required pack across from AMS with a competitor and have a two/three hour delay rather than an outright cancellation.

There are other parameters at play here though.
Crew could have been running down hours and not enough time to get a standby crew in from AMS ending up with a stranded a/c going nowhere.

Or

The next sector the a/c was doing from AMS could be a high connection flight which if cancelled could have a much bigger financial implication.

Not always as simple as "just use another plane/crew".

Gaoth Laidir

It seems to be a very lapse system if a flight has to be cancelled just because medical supplies were used on the inbound. I'm not sure which aircraft type it was but it seems unfathomable in this day and age that such a problem can be allowed to arise. A mjor international airport doesn't have a replacement med kit for a major international airline. Another case of the usual SHE red tape beaurocracy overcomplicating what should be a non issue.

goingnowhere

Fairly standard line item the first aid kit, would expect to have one at a each airport they serve

Bet they have a KLM branded bag sizer...

MoeJay

The replacement of such equipment is done by maintenance. I have no idea if KLM have any line maintenance contract in place in Dublin. Without a contract in place it's pretty expensive to call up for spares at the last minute. Even with a contract there may be no spares in place due to any number of reasons.

If there was a lot of equipment used as part of this emergency there may well not be enough equipment to get it back to up to the minimum level required for dispatch with the level of stock in any case.

It all comes down to cost at the end of the day!

Irish Steve

I will suggest that the issue is that in comparison to Airbus or Boeing, the aircraft type is comparatively less common at Dublin, (EMB170 or 190), so there are probably very few spares for the type held in Ireland, other than possibly tyres, and while there may be some commonality between medical items on different types, there is a possibility that things like Oxygen bottles may well be type specific, or there may be specific requirements laid down in the operations manual for the type.

In that situation, the likely option was to put a larger aircraft on the next rotation, so that it could accommodate the extra passengers, even though that may have been a long delay. At this time of year, such a change from the airline main base would have been easier to facilitate, and possibly quicker than getting the necessary items shipped to Dublin via alternative carriers.

There is also the possibility that there are restrictions (prohibitions) on the carriage of medical oxygen as freight on a passenger flight, as a result of accidents that happened a few years ago, albeit that the accident in that case was with oxygen generators rather than medical oxygen, but I think that the restrictions relate to oxygen in general on passenger flights.

L1011

goingnowhere wrote: »

Fairly standard line item the first aid kit, would expect to have one at a each airport they serve

Bet they have a KLM branded bag sizer...

They use Cityjet checkin facilities (and Sky Handling ex Cityjet) - don't remember much to any KLM branding. Had to use a terminal that barely did English to check in - random bits were in French including the card reader.

Stovepipe

It couldnt have been just a first aid kit; they are generic items and every airline has them. If KLM are handled by Sky handling, then they handle a dozen airlines who'd have been happy to loan them a kit. The cost of ferrying and providing for dumped passengers is far less than a cheap FAK so there was a greater reason than just a box of plasters...

sparrowcar

Oxygen, mask and associated supplies.
"First aid kit" has just been speculated on this thread by those without knowledge of the incident.

Tenger

I would agree with the above. It isnt as simple as just grabbing a generic item from another airline. Each airline has a specific set of equipment that each aircraft must have to depart. At their larger hubs the airline may have a standard supply on-hand. I would hazard a guess that Dublin (being a 'new' destination) is not such a location.
The handling contract may not even have an agreement with any other operator to obtain the correct item.
Thats assuming A) that another operator even use's compatible equipment
That it can be assessed to be in line with KLM standards and most importantly that
C)The other operator is willing to part with the item

Gaoth Laidir

Tenger wrote: »

I would agree with the above. It isnt as simple as just grabbing a generic item from another airline. Each airline has a specific set of equipment that each aircraft must have to depart. At their larger hubs the airline may have a standard supply on-hand. I would hazard a guess that Dublin (being a 'new' destination) is not such a location.
The handling contract may not even have an agreement with any other operator to obtain the correct item.
Thats assuming A) that another operator even use's compatible equipment
That it can be assessed to be in line with KLM standards and most importantly that
C)The other operator is willing to part with the item

So.as I said, a very poor system in place.

Locker10a

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Tenger wrote: »

I would agree with the above. It isnt as simple as just grabbing a generic item from another airline. Each airline has a specific set of equipment that each aircraft must have to depart. At their larger hubs the airline may have a standard supply on-hand. I would hazard a guess that Dublin (being a 'new' destination) is not such a location.
The handling contract may not even have an agreement with any other operator to obtain the correct item.
Thats assuming A) that another operator even use's compatible equipment
That it can be assessed to be in line with KLM standards and most importantly that
C)The other operator is willing to part with the item

So.as I said, a very poor system in place.

It's all about cost, having such a comprehensive supply of equipment and supplies as well as engineers trained to fit/fix at every outstation would come at a significant cost to airlines, and we the flying public have overwhelmingly voted with our credit cards that we don't want costs, we want the cheapest tickets possible, and thus the airlines responded.
Those will to pay the extra are too few to make a difference anymore, so airlines do things as economically as they can

Tenger

I should have added to my post that cases's such as this as extremely rare. Hence making the requirement to have the 'rarely needed' supplies in storage at each of the airlines destinations a risk that the airline is willing to foregone on an annual basis.
The cost of storage, monitoring, shipping in-date items and upgraded engineering coverage for a rare occurrence is not something that can be balance against 1-2 flights per year cancelled due to a lack of spare equipment at a non-hub airport.
So not "a poor system" rather a cost effective system based on statistical probabilities.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

LXFlyer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I would imagine so, as it was would be within the control of the airline and not force majeure.

Stovepipe

A lot of that kind of kit is generic, such as O2 masks and certainly, we in EI would not have seen KLM stuck if we could have helped them. Most, if not all, airlines will share or loan equipment, even if it has to be charged for later. It could have been an issue with the aircraft's own O2 bottle, which might be specific to that aircraft. Either way, it's the airline's loss on this occasion.