land bought in 1989 for 2k/ac

kerry cow

Land bought by a neighbour in 1989 made 2000 pounds per acre excellent , land ,part of an estate . Today I used a online converter to convert the 2000 pounds in to indexed euro .
It works out at 4500 per acre .If we could only buy excellent land now for 4500 .I doubt it .
Too young at the time and the boat has sailed now .
At 10k per acre the cow won't pay it back .at 4 k or 5 k it would be just about doable.

Muckit

As Rangler1 does often say, the only thing to cure high prices is high prices. Let it get dear and let whoever wants to buy it buy it and try make money on it. You have your sums done and know what wiould allow you to pay it back and what won't.

'As safe as houses' was another one. And we all know how that worked out. Its starting now with the cheap farming loans. But cheap loans ain't going to bring down the price of land or bring up the price of milk.

Sometimes doing nothing is better than jumping in head first.

Farmer

Things weren't great in 1989 either. We were in the middle of a recession that had gone on since the early 80's. Interest rates were still two digit, having come down from the mid teens or higher. You can imagine the repayments

There mightn't be that much in it when you weigh it all up

White Clover

It doesn't matter what you pay for something, it's what it costs you is the important bit.

Muckit

Farmer wrote: »

Things weren't great in 1989 either. We were in the middle of a recession that had gone on since the early 80's. Interest rates were still two digit, having come down from the mid teens or higher. You can imagine the repayments

There mightn't be that much in it when you weigh it all up

That's a very good point. Very little correlation between the sale price at the fall of the hammer (unless you have it in your back pocket) and the cumulative amount of capital and interest that's paid back over the lifetime of the loan.

arctictree

Most of that inflation was in the 90's. Between '00 and now, there has been very little. I bought my house in '00 and its worth about the same now.

Timmaay

Land for building /sites/roads has totally skewed land prices in relation to their agriculture returns, we all know farmers who either bought land on the back of selling 2 or 3 sites off it immediately, or millionaire farmers from zoned/Road sales who are reinvesting their money, 10k/ac seems like a bargain when you sold for 30/100/250k an acre at the boom!

Willfarman

Like water, property values will always find their true level.

My opinion is site and road money is drying up and while milk will always be the most profitable enterprise even it can only resliticly buy an acre of good land at 8 or 9 thou an acre.
Middling land or good land needing work is only worth 5 or 6 thou and then forestry will put a bottom in any thing under that.

Bass Reeves

Property out preforms all other investment always has always will. As another poster said i retest rates were way higher pre euro. Relation bought a farm about 1987 at less than that he was paying 16% interest on a 40 k loan over 15 years that was nearly 7k on interest alone for the first year.

My house (site and building cost) cost around 55k in 1991 is it worth 4-5 times that today. Land may or may not be overvalued. Part of the reason is all these little schemes we lobby for. Agri inheritance relief, tax free leasing, no rates, no property tax. At 6k/ acre I be an active buyer.

As the old saying goes it only dear the day you buy

Sam Kade

kerry cow wrote: »

Land bought by a neighbour in 1989 made 2000 pounds per acre excellent , land ,part of an estate . Today I used a online converter to convert the 2000 pounds in to indexed euro .
It works out at 4500 per acre .If we could only buy excellent land now for 4500 .I doubt it .
Too young at the time and the boat has sailed now .
At 10k per acre the cow won't pay it back .at 4 k or 5 k it would be just about doable.

34 acres sold beside me in 1989 for 38k, I should have bought it :mad:

patsy_mccabe

Sam Kade

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

We could turn back time

barnaman

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/19/news/australia-ranch-sold-chinese/

We should have had a whip 'round

SafeSurfer

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Property out preforms all other investment always has always will. As another poster said i retest rates were way higher pre euro. Relation bought a farm about 1987 at less than that he was paying 16% interest on a 40 k loan over 15 years that was nearly 7k on interest alone for the first year.

My house (site and building cost) cost around 55k in 1991 is it worth 4-5 times that today. Land may or may not be overvalued. Part of the reason is all these little schemes we lobby for. Agri inheritance relief, tax free leasing, no rates, no property tax. At 6k/ acre I be an active buyer.

As the old saying goes it only dear the day you buy

The stock market has outperformed all other investment classes over time. It has outperformed property by quite a margin.

Buying land to farm for an economic return? Factor in the opportunity cost of farming the land yourself. I.e. The potential rental income foregone and the vast majority of current Irish farms are economically unviable.

Bullocks

Sam Kade wrote: »

34 acres sold beside me in 1989 for 38k, I should have bought it :mad:

OR ... sold 34 acres of your own in 2006 and retired early

mayota

barnaman wrote: »

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/19/news/australia-ranch-sold-chinese/

We should have had a whip 'round

Just a few cattle on it to claim the anc.

jimmy G M

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Property out preforms all other investment always has always will. As another poster said i retest rates were way higher pre euro. Relation bought a farm about 1987 at less than that he was paying 16% interest on a 40 k loan over 15 years that was nearly 7k on interest alone for the first year.

My house (site and building cost) cost around 55k in 1991 is it worth 4-5 times that today. Land may or may not be overvalued. Part of the reason is all these little schemes we lobby for. Agri inheritance relief, tax free leasing, no rates, no property tax. At 6k/ acre I be an active buyer.

As the old saying goes it only dear the day you buy

Jez I dont know about that Bass. In 2007, brother, father and myself went to €180k on 13 acres and didnt get it so over €15k an acre with stamp duty. Land effectively landlocked, access 1/2 mile down a lane, off a a bye road. Only suited 2/3 neighbours. No sane reason for the price only irrational exuberance. Better land around here now has sold around 6k/acre in past 2-3 years. Count our luck stars we didnt get it now. Turned around and rented 40 acres at a little over €100 acre on a 7 year lease.

Plenty of people who bought houses & property in the period 2005-2008 would probably agree also. If you buy property/investment at the start / early part of a period of inflation you are probably on a winner, otherwise "you can buy gold dear"

Bass Reeves

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The stock market has outperformed all other investment classes over time. It has outperformed property by quite a margin.

Buying land to farm for an economic return? Factor in the opportunity cost of farming the land yourself. I.e. The potential rental income foregone and the vast majority of current Irish farms are economically unviable.

This is often a myth. While shares have out preformed property, most really rich people invest more in property rather than in shares. You also have to factor in knowledge. Most people can gain a knowledge in property but trying to gain a knowledge in share is a science. Most professional investors for pensions only really track market averages.

The other factor that people forget is that you can leverage property investment. So I have 50K and invest in in shares that is all I can invest unless you go very high risk and trade in differences which has huge risk attached.

Most people that have limited knowledge of shares are capable of investing and leveraging a property investment. So with 50K you could borrow another 150K and buy a house. From day one it will cover costs unless you are at the wrong stage of the investment cycle. By year 10 it rental yield will out preform its payments significently.

Look around you how many wealthy people have property investments making good returns. In farming we look only at the lads that have Glanbia and Kerry shares that out preformed the average. But would you go out today and invest 50 or 100K in one share.

Property is where for the ordinary Joe he will get the best return with the least risk with his limited knowledge. The lads I know with money have all invested in property in general in one form or another. Look at Larry where does he tend to invest his profits from the beef industry. Ya I bet he has share as well but the majority of his wealth is tied up in .....wait for it......wait for it......PROPERTY.

Bass Reeves

jimmy G M wrote: »

Jez I dont know about that Bass. In 2007, brother, father and myself went to €180k on 13 acres and didnt get it so over €15k an acre with stamp duty. Land effectively landlocked, access 1/2 mile down a lane, off a a bye road. Only suited 2/3 neighbours. No sane reason for the price only irrational exuberance. Better land around here now has sold around 6k/acre in past 2-3 years. Count our luck stars we didnt get it now. Turned around and rented 40 acres at a little over €100 acre on a 7 year lease.

Plenty of people who bought houses & property in the period 2005-2008 would probably agree also. If you buy property/investment at the start / early part of a period of inflation you are probably on a winner, otherwise "you can buy gold dear"

It all depends on the stage of the investment cycle. invest in anything at the wrong stage and you get yor ass handed on a plate to you.

Timmaay

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Property out preforms all other investment always has always will. As another poster said i retest rates were way higher pre euro. Relation bought a farm about 1987 at less than that he was paying 16% interest on a 40 k loan over 15 years that was nearly 7k on interest alone for the first year.

My house (site and building cost) cost around 55k in 1991 is it worth 4-5 times that today. Land may or may not be overvalued. Part of the reason is all these little schemes we lobby for. Agri inheritance relief, tax free leasing, no rates, no property tax. At 6k/ acre I be an active buyer.

As the old saying goes it only dear the day you buy

I've never understood this saying! If you spend 20years breaking your back struggling to pay down the mortgage for it, then it's dear for a hell of a lot longer than just the day you bought it!

milligan2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It all depends on the stage of the investment cycle. invest in anything at the wrong stage and you get yor ass handed on a plate to you.

The problem is nobody can tell what stage of the cycle the property market is at.
Property has destroyed a lot of this country's wealth in the last 15 years

Dozer1

bought land 2 years ago, worked out around 7500k/acre good ground fenced and reseeded.
place next door for sale now and looking for 9k/acre can't see him getting it but like everyone its fair tempting as its outside the ditch.

end of the day its only a way of holding money from what i see.

pedigree 6

Dozer1 wrote: »

bought land 2 years ago, worked out around 7500k/acre good ground fenced and reseeded.
place next door for sale now and looking for 9k/acre can't see him getting it but like everyone its fair tempting as its outside the ditch.

end of the day its only a way of holding money from what i see.

What part of country is this?

Dozer1

Limerick

Demand sets the price I suppose

Bass Reeves

milligan2 wrote: »

The problem is nobody can tell what stage of the cycle the property market is at.
Property has destroyed a lot of this country's wealth in the last 15 years

It is not rocket science. Still value out there in property.Yield is the key when buying as yield decid's return. Return is what pays for the property. Yields of above 7-8% mean after deposit ( assuming 30-25% of own money invested) then the property will pay for itself.

Property has created a lot of wealth people over the last 4-6 years. Real money is made in a recession not in a boom. Unless you were an idiot from mid noughties on you had to know that the Irish property market was out of sync. Most investors that did not have to sell are back to where they started in city's and large urban area"s. From mid noughties property yields were down below 4% and dropping fast. Most investors that lost out bought multiply properties and did not have previously noughties investments to tide them over.

Inline in a village near a large urban area. There are about 3-5 people who are property millionaire's and at nearly dozen other that have over 500 k in property. However it is wise to remember never to invest in anything you do not understand, but that is not to say by a bit of research you cannot get the knowledge to invest in any sector

kerry cow

Why is it that all the large estates or land bank from 1000 ac to 5000 acre in the UK is bought up by institutions. The UK. Land prices have gone from 4k pounds per acre 10 years ago up to 12k per ac at present and lots of outside of farming purchasing and sub letting .
Can someone explain ???

Waffletraktor

kerry cow wrote: »

Why is it that all the large estates or land bank from 1000 ac to 5000 acre in the UK is bought up by institutions. The UK. Land prices have gone from 4k pounds per acre 10 years ago up to 12k per ac at present and lots of outside of farming purchasing and sub letting .
Can someone explain ???

Cheapest way to pass on money and seen as a safe store of wealth. In the last few years any decent sized block of land around is bought by non farming money and then contract farmed and in more than one or 2 cases awfully.Some farms are being told by their bank put a plan together to show you don't require subs to surviive or they will call in debts.
Land is expected to drop 20%+ around here post brexit. Also i could count on 2 hands the number of farms with the potential to splash 5+million atm unless they recently sold for houses.

patsy_mccabe

Ah the cute boys are still buying. Heard recently of a family that bought 2 farms. Both for serious value.

Muckit

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Property out preforms all other investment always has always will. As another poster said i retest rates were way higher pre euro. Relation bought a farm about 1987 at less than that he was paying 16% interest on a 40 k loan over 15 years that was nearly 7k on interest alone for the first year.

My house (site and building cost) cost around 55k in 1991 is it worth 4-5 times that today. Land may or may not be overvalued. Part of the reason is all these little schemes we lobby for. Agri inheritance relief, tax free leasing, no rates, no property tax. At 6k/ acre I be an active buyer.

As the old saying goes it only dear the day you buy

You're talking a lot of waffle. Not like you. You must have slept through the recession. Typical of those that it didn't affect. Property prices (houses) went down and have largely stayed down. There are v few, a handful possibly that are making 200-250k. I haven't seen yiur house but guessing it's age and specs, you wouldn't get the colour of it.

If you are living out the country or even in a small village your house is worth way less than you think. Prices on daft are not the selling prices. Check out the property register for the real prices. You should stick a for sale sign in the front lawn and just see the amount of viewings you get at your price. You'd probably get a heart attack when you seen the asking price you had to come to to get a viewing.

I've seen it from both sides. Selling a house for half of what l paid for it but also buying a house l'd never been able to afford to build.

freedominacup

Maybe bad choices but everyone of the shares you listed have stiffed on the rent this century often for prolonged periods. And everyone of them have seen big drops in share values for periods often fir to mismanagement.

Cattlepen

My father used to tell me about a land auction he attended, as a child, with his father . It was the first farm in Ireland to make £100 an acre. The crowd at the auction gasped and all they could say was "how will farming ever pay for it".
That's just about within living memory.
Land 17 miles from Dublin City centre in 1992 made £1800 an acre, in 2006 €400000 an acre, in 2012 it was bought for €9500. It must be worth €15000 now. It's all down to timing and knowing when to get in and more importantly, when to get out

Willfarman

Cattlepen wrote: »

My father used to tell me about a land auction he attended, as a child, with his father . It was the first farm in Ireland to make £100 an acre. The crowd at the auction gasped and all they could say was "how will farming ever pay for it".
That's just about within living memory.
Land 17 miles from Dublin City centre in 1992 made £1800 an acre, in 2006 €400000 an acre, in 2012 it was bought for €9500. It must be worth €15000 now. It's all down to timing and knowing when to get in and more importantly, when to get out

There was quite a bit land abandoned in the 50's in the locality here due to it the owners not being able to pay rates.

Cattlepen

Willfarman wrote: »

There was quite a bit land abandoned in the 50's in the locality here due to it the owners not being able to pay rates.

What happened the land after that?

kerry cow

There's a farm in kerry that the banks have up for sale with 3 years and no one will bid on it .it was a neighbouring holding that a farmer bought a few years ago to extend his home block . its easy buy it but it's another story to pay it back .

fepper

kerry cow wrote: »

There's a farm in kerry that the banks have up for sale with 3 years and no one will bid on it .it was a neighbouring holding that a farmer bought a few years ago to extend his home block . its easy buy it but it's another story to pay it back .

Your Kerry coop shares in a conversion would make it very easy to buy that for you Kerry cow!......

Willfarman

Cattlepen wrote: »

What happened the land after that?

A close relation of a ff counciler approached the owners and asked them would they be happy to give title to him and all outstanding rates would be settled by himself..

Cattlepen

Willfarman wrote: »

A close relation of a ff counciler approached the owners and asked them would they be happy to give title to him and all outstanding rates would be settled by himself..

Gangsters

kerry cow

fepper wrote:

Your Kerry coop shares in a conversion would make it very easy to buy that for you Kerry cow!......

Sorry fepper that's up north kerry a bit far from me .We have the north south divide here too

Bass Reeves

Muckit wrote: »

You're talking a lot of waffle. Not like you. You must have slept through the recession. Typical of those that it didn't affect. Property prices (houses) went down and have largely stayed down. There are v few, a handful possibly that are making 200-250k. I haven't seen yiur house but guessing it's age and specs, you wouldn't get the colour of it.

If you are living out the country or even in a small village your house is worth way less than you think. Prices on daft are not the selling prices. Check out the property register for the real prices. You should stick a for sale sign in the front lawn and just see the amount of viewings you get at your price. You'd probably get a heart attack when you seen the asking price you had to come to to get a viewing.

I've seen it from both sides. Selling a house for half of what l paid for it but also buying a house l'd never been able to afford to build.

Muckit at best I am an arrogant ba5tard at worst I will not describe myself at the worst. Not really worried what my house is worth like the farm I have I am not selling any time soon. Neither did I come through the last recession uneffected.

The way I look at the house I an living in it, cannot see myself moving ( even though I have done up the old farm house). About two years ago a farm near the house came up for sale. I would have loved to by it it but could not affort to sell the place I have, because of CAT along with auctioneer and legal fees.

The last part of what you posted really tell a story about rural property, rental yields and value. There is a lot of stuff out there that will pay for itself.

Who2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Muckit at best I am an arrogant ba5tard at worst I will not describe myself at the worst. Not really worried what my house is worth like the farm I have I am not selling any time soon. Neither did I come through the last recession uneffected.

The way I look at the house I an living in it, cannot see myself moving ( even though I have done up the old farm house). About two years ago a farm near the house came up for sale. I would have loved to by it it but could not affort to sell the place I have, because of CAT along with auctioneer and legal fees.

The last part of what you posted really tell a story about rural property, rental yields and value. There is a lot of stuff out there that will pay for itself.

Houses are rising fast in price, they are hard got, I've even seen old derelict types that weren't fixed up in the last boom being redone now. I'd say a lot of people would be surprised at what they have and what's achievable at the moment. If it keeps heading in the same direction I reckon they will be back close on value within twelve months. Head into any city and throw an eye up at all the fresh hoarding and how many cranes are visible in the skyline.

milligan2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is not rocket science. Still value out there in property.Yield is the key when buying as yield decid's return. Return is what pays for the property. Yields of above 7-8% mean after deposit ( assuming 30-25% of own money invested) then the property will pay for itself.

Property has created a lot of wealth people over the last 4-6 years. Real money is made in a recession not in a boom. Unless you were an idiot from mid noughties on you had to know that the Irish property market was out of sync. Most investors that did not have to sell are back to where they started in city's and large urban area"s. From mid noughties property yields were down below 4% and dropping fast. Most investors that lost out bought multiply properties and did not have previously noughties investments to tide them over.

Inline in a village near a large urban area. There are about 3-5 people who are property millionaire's and at nearly dozen other that have over 500 k in property. However it is wise to remember never to invest in anything you do not understand, but that is not to say by a bit of research you cannot get the knowledge to invest in any sector

That post has a nasty condescending tone to it,you sound like one of those shyster bankers from 10 years ago.
Property investing isn't as easy as you make it out to be,try it and you'll see

Bullocks

milligan2 wrote: »

That post has a nasty condescending tone to it,you sound like one of those shyster bankers from 10 years ago.
Property investing isn't as easy as you make it out to be,try it and you'll see

I dont know about condescending but alot of it is true , people that could afford to buy 4/5 years ago could sell now at a decent profit . Unfortunately not many (myself included ) could buy much during the recession .
I'm not sure how easy it is to pick up a bargain now again though , and being a landlord is no walkin the park these days either

patsy_mccabe

Bullocks wrote: »

....and being a landlord is no walkin the park these days either

And only going to get worst. The 'I'm entitled to' brigade will do more harm than good if they have their way.

milligan2

Bullocks wrote: »

I dont know about condescending but alot of it is true , people that could afford to buy 4/5 years ago could sell now at a decent profit . Unfortunately not many (myself included ) could buy much during the recession .
I'm not sure how easy it is to pick up a bargain now again though , and being a landlord is no walkin the park these days either

He called people that bought from mid noughies on idiots which is unfair,hindsight is great.
Of course there was money made the last while but most of it went to American hedge funds.

kerry cow

Don't know was anything bought cheap in the recession but more like a relistic price .it was way over price before that .funny thing is there are so many 161 and 171 car knocking around .!!

Who2

kerry cow wrote: »

Don't know was anything bought cheap in the recession but more like a relistic price .it was way over price before that .funny thing is there are so many 161 and 171 car knocking around .!!

whats a realistic cost? would it be fair to say, the cost of construction plus 10%, or is it one whereby its affordable to you or whoever. there was serious value in a lot of things during the recession, its just hard to have the right funds at the right times.