Social care? Health and safety leave ?? Pregnancy discrimination ???

2017ul

Hi everyone I am hoping someone may have been in the same position as I am at the moment.
I work in residential care for a new organisation in Cork, with adults who have an intellectual disability and can have challenging behaviours

I informed my employer of my pregnancy a week ago and yesterday I was informed of being put on health and safety leave.. I really cannot afford this at this time as it is only 190 euro per week..

I was informed that the outcomes of my risk assessment were lone working,
I offered to switch to nights where there would be another member of staff on with me.
However my company is unwilling to move me as "there is an over staffing issue and they have no hours for me" I asked my employer to switch a staff member from the challenging house to the non challenging house and they responded no.
They offered me to switch from my permanent contract to wait for night awakes to sporadically become available or go on health and safety leave.
I requested to see my risk assessments and the outcomes of same and these are not being sent to me. Do I have a right to ask for thease documents?

Also I have secured another format of employment However it is only part time and 10 euro an hour meaning I will only be on 200 euro a week. I'm wondering can I comnine the health and safety leave and my new found employment?

Sorry for all the questions
If anyone has any input at all I would be so grateful

_Brian

My understanding is you can't combine these together at all.

Also the employer is looking out for you and your baby, it's hard to fault them for that. They are only obliged to provide alternative work where it is possible and safe to do so - if they have no other safe and suitable work available the that's it.

2017ul

_Brian wrote: »

My understanding is you can't combine these together at all.

Also the employer is looking out for you and your baby, it's hard to fault them for that. They are only obliged to provide alternative work where it is possible and safe to do so - if they have no other safe and suitable work available the that's it.

I understand I should not work with challenging individuals while pregnant, however they have low risk work available and are refusing to swap me which I was taken aback by I wouldn't put my baby at risk of harm.
But thanks for the response

Mrs OBumble

There's no requirement for other staff to swap their hours, just because you're pregnant: It's possible that the other staff doing the low-risk hours have issues of their own (eg hidden disabilities) which mean they cannot to the high-risk work either.

I agree that the position you're in sucks. But it's hot pregnancy discrimination.

Is there any chance of looking for some additional work to complement the other job you've been offered - eg homecare?

Clashmore

I could have written this post, I am in a similar situation. Company are saying there is no other work available I don't think they are trying hard enough. You are entitled to risk assessment as you should have signed them. Keep asking them. We may well be working for the same company begins with N. Keep asking them regularly are they still trying to source alternative work for you. Otherwise unfortunately there is not a lot you can do, as it is very difficult to prove they are big looking for somewhere safer for you to work. Best of luck with ur pregnancy.

Clashmore

2017ul

Yes that is the company.
I definitely feel as though there is an issue here. This is not the norm in any other company. It is simply not good enough. The fact alone that there is no information available about women being pressured in to taking health and safety leave online assures me that this is not what should be happening, and is not what health and safety leave is for. Why should our pregnancy facilitate a company in overcoming their issues of over staffing ?

davo10

2017ul wrote: »

Yes that is the company.
I definitely feel as though there is an issue here. This is not the norm in any other company. It is simply not good enough. The fact alone that there is no information available about women being pressured in to taking health and safety leave online assures me that this is not what should be happening, and is not what health and safety leave is for. Why should our pregnancy facilitate a company in overcoming their issues of over staffing ?

Having a fully staffed night shift is not "overstaffed". Every company has to do a risk assessment for pregnant employees, to not do so would be negligent. Health and safety leave is determined by the risk involved and the employees ability to carry out their normal duties in a safe environment. As others have pointed out to you, employers are not required to create a position for you nor to discomode another employee just so you are accomadated. Your company does not seem to have an issue with staffing based on the info you posted, they just don't have an alternative position that suits you.

You might have a tough time arguing that your employer is doing something wrong, when they are protecting the health and safety of you and your baby.

Mrs OBumble

2017ul wrote: »

Yes that is the company.
I definitely feel as though there is an issue here. This is not the norm in any other company. It is simply not good enough. The fact alone that there is no information available about women being pressured in to taking health and safety leave online assures me that this is not what should be happening, and is not what health and safety leave is for. Why should our pregnancy facilitate a company in overcoming their issues of over staffing ?

I don't see how you're forming that conclusion.

Your situation is EXACTLY what health and safety leave exists for : cases when it's not safe for you to work and them employer doesn't have alternative duties to give you.

It's totally not right that other employees should have their hours forcibly changed because you chose to get pregnant.

_Brian

This whole thing annoys me a bit.

There are implications to becoming pregnant - one of which is you may not
Be able to perform the same work as before.
Employers are on a no win situation here, they are being prudent by protecting you and yet it seems that isn't enough. There is some expectation that they Magic some "suitable" role that doesn't seem to exist. I agree the situation shouldn't be abused but from what I've read it isn't being abused as op isn't capable of their initial position (for the moment).

It wasn't the employers decision that you get pregnant, they seem to be taking their responsibilities seriously.

2017ul

_Brian wrote: »

This whole thing annoys me a bit.

There are implications to becoming pregnant - one of which is you may not
Be able to perform the same work as before.
Employers are on a no win situation here, they are being prudent by protecting you and yet it seems that isn't enough. There is some expectation that they Magic some "suitable" role that doesn't seem to exist. I agree the situation shouldn't be abused but from what I've read it isn't being abused as op isn't capable of their initial position (for the moment).

It wasn't the employers decision that you get pregnant, they seem to be taking their responsibilities seriously.

My issues are that my risk assessment is not being provided, alternative options were not looked in to, I am being told the company is overstaffed. It is typical of companies with dangerous situations to swap staff around- often staff will, if asked,as they know having that precedent set will help them out in case of acquniting a disability or for when they choose to start a family. The company has precedent of moving people around in similar cases -however, at this time cannot sue to overstaffing. the day after I informed my employer of being pregnant my hours were immediately cut and offered to someone who was not receiving their fully entitled hours. I am lucky in that I have a partner who can support me at this time as obviously his was not he expected outcome for us.however if I did not choose to get pregnant- accidents happen- it is frightening to think that your wages would suddenly be cut to the equivalent of the dole, I wonder would it be appropriate in Ireland to adopt the English system that if you are in a dangerous job and need health and safety leave, your wages are paid in full until you begin maternity leave

davo10

2017ul wrote: »

Listen, to be honest when I was seeking advice I was seeking it from people in the social care field, who may have been put in the same position. My situation is not the norm, honestly in the majority of companies if you are required to work in a low risk house they are inclined to temporarily move someone to a nearby house as is stipulated in contracts. Often the situation will be put to employees and they will understand and not want one of their fellow colleagues being put on a wage which is that of the dole- similarly if someone acquires a disability such as a bad back.They understand that by setting precedents such as this they themselves will be protected if they also "choose to get pregnant". To be honest this is a very delicate situation for me and I find your tone to be rude at worst and condescending at best -but certainly unhelpful.

In other words voluntary movement by other employees.

There are two viewpoints at play here, the one that suits you best, and the company's viewpoint on what constitutes best practice for your health and safety. Unfortunately they do not align in this case.

You can argue that they should do this and that, that other employees should be moved even if it is against their will, to accomadate you, but that is not a requirement and you are not entitled to that.

Your employer carried out a pregnancy risk assessment, as they must do, and have concluded that there is a risk to you continuing in your current role. You will be running up hill trying to argue against that. They can look around to see if there is another role but they do not have to create one, and they certainly do not have to move others to accommodate you. If they did that they would probably have a grievance from the other employee.

Accidents do happen, but you should know that pregnancy poses a unique set of risks/precautions which both the mother and employer must be aware of and do whatever is necessary to limit. If you fall at work and twist your ankle, that is one scenario, if you have the same fall and (god forbid) there are complications with your pregnancy, that is quite another. If you employer knowingly put you at risk, then you would have a much bigger issue with your employer.

2017ul

davo10 wrote: »

In other words voluntary movement by other employees.

There are two viewpoints at play here, the one that suits you best, and the company's viewpoint on what constitutes best practice for your health and safety. Unfortunately they do not align in this case.

You can argue that they should do this and that, that other employees should be moved even if it is against their will, to accomadate you, but that is not a requirement and you are not entitled to that.

Your employer carried out a pregnancy risk assessment, as they must do, and have concluded that there is a risk to you continuing in your current role. You will be running up hill trying to argue against that. They can look around to see if there is another role but they do not have to create one, and they certainly do not have to move others to accommodate you. If they did that they would probably have a grievance from the other employee.

Accidents do happen, but you should know that pregnancy poses a unique set of risks/precautions which both the mother and employer must be aware of and do whatever is necessary to limit. If you fall at work and twist your ankle, that is one scenario, if you have the same fall and (god forbid) there are complications with your pregnancy, that is quite another. If you employer knowingly put you at risk, then you would have a much bigger issue with your employer.

Falling during pregnancy could happen in any job. If you apply that logic all pregnant women should be on health and safety leave. Could a teacher not fall while on duty?

davo10

2017ul wrote: »

Falling during pregnancy could happen in any job. If you apply that logic all pregnant women should be on health and safety leave. Could a teacher not fall while on duty?

Yes they could, that is why risk assessments are done for all jobs. All jobs are not the same though and each job may have specific risks, the risks for a teacher are not th same as those who work in care homes.

It's obvious you feel hard done by and that you are going to suffer a financial loss as a result of this but, you are pregnant and your employer has concluded that there is a risk to you and your baby when you carry out your duties. You are fighting a losing battle by arguing there are no risks or that you don't deem them as serious as your employer. If a problem at work did occur which impacted on you and/or your baby, you would blame your employer and your employer would have no defence if they let you work on even though they had acknowledged the risks.

Mrs OBumble

2017ul wrote: »

My issues are that my risk assessment is not being provided, alternative options were not looked in to....

Risk assessment doesn't have to be specific to you. They can do a generic one and say that the job X is not suitable for anyone who's pregnant, and that there is no way to do it in "light duties" mode - which I'd expect is the case in a facility like you've described.

2017ul wrote: »

it is frightening to think that your wages would suddenly be cut to the equivalent of the dole

Yes, it is frightening to think that at any moment your income could be cut like that. But it can be caused by wayyy more than just pregnancy: can be caused by any number of illnesses or injuries. Part of being adult in the Irish economy is simply that you need enough savings to cover yourself in these situations, because the government only provides very minimal cover. It's a pity that more people don't realise this.

2017ul wrote: »

I wonder would it be appropriate in Ireland to adopt the English system that if you are in a dangerous job and need health and safety leave, your wages are paid in full until you begin maternity leave

I think that would be totally appropriate. As would an entitlement of six days paid sick leave per year for all employees.

But what we think is appropriate is pretty irrelevant to your current situation.
We need to start lobblying our TDs for law changes.

July2017

Can anyone give me advise. Im the opposite, I want health and safety leave. Im driving 5 hrs round trip to work, I've been here since before I knew I was pregnant. I know in a few more weeks it's reli going to take a toll on me.

I work 9 hrs, drive for 5. By the time I get home I'm exhausted, not having time to cook proper meals and by the time I'm showered and in bed and settled I get about 6 hrs sleep before I'm up and have to go again.

Anyone know if that risk would get me health and safety leave.

As I'm not able to manage a proper diet, not sleeping enough hours and being very inactive on weekdays

Mrs OBumble

Probably not. H&S leave is for when the job is dangerous, not when your petsonal circumstances are.

How many days per week do you work, could you stay over a few nights in each week?

FitzElla

2017ul wrote: »

My issues are that my risk assessment is not being provided, alternative options were not looked in to, I am being told the company is overstaffed. It is typical of companies with dangerous situations to swap staff around- often staff will, if asked,as they know having that precedent set will help them out in case of acquniting a disability or for when they choose to start a family.

Any risk assessment must be specific to your individual circumstances and job role. You must also be given information on the results of the risk assessment. This is all covered under specific health and safety legislation.

You are also legally entitled to ask for a certificate outlining the reasons why you have been given Health and Safety Leave. Your employer has an obligation to substantiate the grounds you cannot be moved to other work, but they are under no obligation to create other work for you.

If you are put on Health and Safety leave you are entitled to 21 days of pay - not much - but it is a little help. You are also entitled to claim family income supplement on top of your health and safety benefit, depending on your individual circumstances.

If you do feel you are being discriminated against because of your pregnancy you would have to demonstrate how. If you can't work in your existing job for health and safety reasons, and you can't feasibly be moved to another role, your employer is correct in giving you health and safety leave.

_Brian

July2017 wrote: »

Can anyone give me advise. Im the opposite, I want health and safety leave. Im driving 5 hrs round trip to work, I've been here since before I knew I was pregnant. I know in a few more weeks it's reli going to take a toll on me.

I work 9 hrs, drive for 5. By the time I get home I'm exhausted, not having time to cook proper meals and by the time I'm showered and in bed and settled I get about 6 hrs sleep before I'm up and have to go again.

Anyone know if that risk would get me health and safety leave.

As I'm not able to manage a proper diet, not sleeping enough hours and being very inactive on weekdays

I really don't think your drive can be taken into account.