Need job to get experience / Need experience to get job

erpmeis

Hi all,

At my wits end regarding job hunting.

I've a masters in a Science field and I've applied to numerous jobs in the Biopharma industry only to receive the typical "Thank you for you application but we have decided to pursue other candidates" email numerous times, and often not even receiving an email back.

I've tried the various job sites, even used recruitment agenices and had my CV altered by a professional. I do believe the cover letters I attach are of a good standard as I use the keywords in the job description requirements as my foundation.

Does anybody have any tips for me as I feel rather hopeless at this stage.

Thanks.

GalwayGrrrrrl

Could you offer your services as an intern or do some work experience in your chosen field. Once your foot is in the door it will be much easier (and hopefully more successful) to apply for paid jobs. I know in my area (Hse) we rarely hire anyone that hasn't spent at least a few days doing work experience with us. This includes healthcare professionals, not just students.

CIARAN_BOYLE

erpmeis wrote: »

Hi all,

At my wits end regarding job hunting.

I've a masters in a Science field and I've applied to numerous jobs in the Biopharma industry only to receive the typical "Thank you for you application but we have decided to pursue other candidates" email numerous times, and often not even receiving an email back.

I've tried the various job sites, even used recruitment agenices and had my CV altered by a professional. I do believe the cover letters I attach are of a good standard as I use the keywords in the job description requirements as my foundation.

Does anybody have any tips for me as I feel rather hopeless at this stage.

Thanks.

Was it a research masters or a taught masters. If a research masters can you write up the experience gained in a better way.

Mrs OBumble

Network.

Who do you know who works in a likely company? Ask them to help ...

amolol

Try applying for a job as a lab demonstrator in a college, you usually get paid for that work, and you only have to work a few days a week.

erpmeis

I found the HR of the companies and emailed them asking whether they'd be interested in taking me on as an intern, but I've just been ignored.

Networking with peers in my course isn't really useful at present as they're only just been hired and highly doubt they'd have any weight in referencing me at the moment.

Oh well, may as well try and laugh about the current situation as I'd cry otherwise.

Thanks for help.

GalwayGrrrrrl

erpmeis wrote: »

I found the HR of the companies and emailed them asking whether they'd be interested in taking me on as an intern, but I've just been ignored.

Networking with peers in my course isn't really useful at present as they're only just been hired and highly doubt they'd have any weight in referencing me at the moment.

Oh well, may as well try and laugh about the current situation as I'd cry otherwise.

Thanks for help.

Don't just network with peers, network with everyone you meet- in your sports club (or whatever hobby you have) family circle, friends. If you don't know lots of people get yourself out and about- join some clubs, help with a local charity, scouts group, choir etc. You need to keep positive- if I met you sounding like you do here, you are coming across very defeatist/negative.

GalwayGrrrrrl

xfactorfan23 wrote: »

Don't just network with peers, network with everyone you meet- in your sports club (or whatever hobby you have) family circle, friends. If you don't know lots of people get yourself out and about- join some clubs, help with a local charity, scouts group, choir etc. You need to keep positive- if I met you sounding like you do here, you are coming across very defeatist/negative.

Also- don't forget to go to any conferences in your chosen field, research days etc. Chat to lots of people over lunch, follow those people on twitter/linked in etc

erpmeis

I appreciate the advice xfactorfan, but having sent speculative emails to HR for certain companies offering to do an internship and being ignored is laughable, especially considering I have a first class honours masters degree and an honours degree at level 8 behind it.

If companies refuse to acknowledge your existence when they're gaining free labour from someone who is qualified, but lacks experience it shouldn't surprise you that my outlook is pessimistic.

Life isn't always black and white. I appreciate your sentiments nonetheless.

J Mysterio

I've been there and I understand the hopelesness. The only thing I can say is persrvere, it will work out in time.

Try not to let dark thoughts bring you down and look to remain positive, it will work out in time.

FAILSAFE 00

erpmeis wrote: »

I appreciate the advice xfactorfan, but having sent speculative emails to HR for certain companies offering to do an internship and being ignored is laughable, especially considering I have a first class honours masters degree and an honours degree at level 8 behind it.

If companies refuse to acknowledge your existence when they're gaining free labour from someone who is qualified, but lacks experience it shouldn't surprise you that my outlook is pessimistic.

Life isn't always black and white. I appreciate your sentiments nonetheless.

Have you tried engaging with people offline rather than sending emails.

I am sure these companies are spammed with emails all day long with multiple people offering similar.

tina1040

Is it just Ireland you're looking at? There are many more opportunities in uk.

Mrs OBumble

erpmeis wrote: »

I appreciate the advice xfactorfan, but having sent speculative emails to HR for certain companies offering to do an internship and being ignored is laughable, especially considering I have a first class honours masters degree and an honours degree at level 8 behind it.

If companies refuse to acknowledge your existence when they're gaining free labour from someone who is qualified, but lacks experience it shouldn't surprise you that my outlook is pessimistic.

Forget emails. These managers get hundreds of emails each day. Most of them are dross waste of time rubbish. (And they probably are laughing at you for offering to work for free - why should someone with a masters be doing that now unemployment is down to 7% again.)

You need to use networking approaches to get your face into someone's head, so they think "ahh, that lad ... " when they want someone. Email will NEVER do that.

Your classmates who have jobs are your No 1 resource. They will find out when their companies are hiring, and can tell you a little about the place, the hiring manager etc.

Your college professors would have been a resource when you graduated, but you'll have faded from their memories by now.

Your social media presence is another resource. Have you got LinkedIn set up? Connected with all your classmates? Followed the companies you'd like to work for? Joined relevant groups? Spend some time each day reading articles, and making intelligent comments or asking questions about them?

Then there's your wider community network. Who do you know? Who do your parents / family know If you're from a family without a useful network, then you need to build one through community activities: sport, church, music, drama, hillwalking, whatever. Find out about people who you know from things like this, what they do, where they work, and if they might be able to help you get a job that will use your degree.

rainbow_beard

Don't take it personally that HR people are not getting back to you, unless there is already an internship program at the company they'll have no idea how to take advantage of the great opportunity you've given them. The people who vet your CV normally have very little knowledge in the industry (especially an industry like bio-pharma) so they might not appreciate the value of your educational achievements. My advice is to bypass the HR screening process altogether. Have a read of this article about how to reach hiring managers directly since its them you want to be creating relationships with. While you're at it have a listen to this podcast about learned helplessness (I hope you don't think I'm being condescending but I do think it's relevant to your situation)

Like other people have mentioned doing some networking is a great idea. All the time people go on maternity leave, long term sick leave, quit at short notice etc which is a real problem for their boss. They might be delighted to bypass all the pain and wasted time of the standard recruiting process and give you a call instead. You just have to make sure people know you're smart, hard working and available.

Getting your first serious position after graduating is always going to be the most difficult job search. Take solace from the fact that you're subsequent job hunts will be exponentially easier. Keep hustling and don't give up!

Etc

Are you concentrating your search on bio-pharma only ? Are you looking at a broad range of roles or keeping it to a narrow focus (lab, validation etc ?)

Have you considered other industries, beverage, food, as gaining general experience can be a way into your chosen area.

The market is really good at the moment, it's only a matter of time before you're successful.


Keep going !

erpmeis

Many thanks for all the replies, it's great to actually see so many people coming to my aid with suggestions and tips. It's truly appreciated.

Perhaps I have been overlooking the old-school route of applying, which is essentially found within an addressed envelope delivered to the company by An Post. I understand that there's potential to go in person and hand deliver it myself, so I may try that too.

Sending speculative emails and applying to advertisements clearly fishing for CVs is not working, so it's time to try an alternative method.

The hardest part about it all is knowing that once I get my foot in the door, I'll have no problem demonstrating my ability.

I guess job searching is a test of mental fortitude and perseverance skills, which I hope I'm strengthening through this process.

Blue_Dabadee

Hi erpmeis, I feel the same way since I have been unemployed for almost two years and I am not on live register yet due to my parents income being too high for means test.

However, I have been doing voluntary work which probably helped me get 9 or 10 job interviews last year. It is also has been extremely good for my mental health since I hate being at home all day.

Guy Sajer

xfactorfan23 wrote: »

Could you offer your services as an intern or do some work experience in your chosen field. Once your foot is in the door it will be much easier (and hopefully more successful) to apply for paid jobs. I know in my area (Hse) we rarely hire anyone that hasn't spent at least a few days doing work experience with us. This includes healthcare professionals, not just students.

In my experience some areas of the HSE will actively seek staff with no experience over those with years of experience as it's seen to be beneficial to train someone from fresh, as you don't get the bad habits from other areas. A 'purer' trained staff for want of a better word.

erpmeis

Blue_Dabadee, I understand your pain.

Do you mind me asking what field your degree is in?

I may look to applying for Packaging Operative jobs at a Pharma company. Experience doesn't seem to be a major issue in this area, as I've seen listings that are looking for people with computer literacy, numerical ability and verbal reasoning skills.

I have some cGMP experience as well, having been through the gowning process.

Worth a try for me any way.

Sure anything is better than nothing at this stage.

Hope we both find something soon!

Chavways

Hi,

My girlfriend was in a similar situation last year. Had a cell biology masters behind her as well as a science teaching level 8 degree. She had her CV reviewed by various agencies and recruiters and they all said it was extremely good but after 50+ applications she had only heard back from 5 or so companies and only had 1 interview. What she lacked was a co-op placement from college as she did a teaching undergrad.

It's amazing that companies won't even send a 1 line email putting people out of their misery to tell them they haven't gotten a job.

Anyway, a tactic we eventually found that worked was looking at all of the smaller companies websites and applying for jobs directly to there. Its easier to contact the people who make decisions rather than applying for a multinational and having your CV thrown into a pool of others.

We found a listing on the IDA website here: http://www.idaireland.com/business-in-ireland/company-listing/

As well as some other lists with some Google searching and she came across the company she's currently working for! She found one job listing that was closing 2 days later, applied for it and got it. So just keep looking and applying and it will eventually work out. The job search is a horrible place to be but don't lose hope.

Mrs OBumble

erpmeis wrote: »

Perhaps I have been overlooking the old-school route of applying, which is essentially found within an addressed envelope delivered to the company by An Post. I understand that there's potential to go in person and hand deliver it myself, so I may try that too.

You're still missing the point.

A letter delivered by An Post is slightly less likely to be ignored than an email, for sure. But it's still very impersonal.

Hand-delivered CVs work in some sectors, where it's reasonable for managers to meet walk-ins I wouldn't have thought that too many corporate companies work like that though.

What you need to do is find ways to make a relationship, and get yourself remembered for the right reasons. That means face time, either with the boss or with someone who might recommend you to the boss.

the_syco

erpmeis wrote: »

If companies refuse to acknowledge your existence when they're gaining free labour from someone who is qualified, but lacks experience it shouldn't surprise you that my outlook is pessimistic.

"If companies refuse to acknowledge your existence when they're gaining free labour from someone who is qualified" than consider having your CV checked.

Do you have a good LinkedIn profile? Does it have all the buzz words that HR love, and that HR's look for when searching LinkedIn.

If you do sports, ensure you LinkedIn'd with them; it ensures more people are exposed to your profile.

erpmeis

Hey guys,

I tried a different approach that involved identifying a manager in the area I wish to work.

For example, if I am seeking a role in Quality Assurance, I am addressing my cover letter to the QA Manager directly by using his or her name.

I've read online that this can be useful for speculative applications as it shows initiative that you'd went to the effort of identifying who the person is and addressing it to them specifically (Got to try something others aren't, right?).

I've sent about 5 of them away in the post, so I'm hoping to hear something back.

Perhaps I won't, but sending applications through the HR department via the ATS is essentially black holing my application.

I'd have better luck pissing into the wind.

Fingers crossed the outcome is somewhat positive.

newtown13

Have you thought about springboard courses? NIBRT run these courses in association with biopharma companies.
I'm recently qualified with a masters degree and went through torturous months of applying for jobs. I was looking for a job in quality. So i know your pain! But i recently started as a QA analyst so keep on going and it will eventually happen for you.

highlydebased

Another tactic would be to try get into a company that has roles that fit the bill by taking up another job there, like as an admin temp or some such. You would have access to internal opportunities and would be able to get to know the right people very quickly

erpmeis

Just an update.

After all the applications I sent away (hundreds), I've received two interviews - neither of which were remotely related to my field.

First one I knew I didn't get as it was blatantly obvious that the interviewer wasn't even listening, nor interested in what I had to say.

Second one was the polar opposite and was interviewed by two of the nicest people I could have asked for.

Long story short, I got the second job.

While I'm pretty disheartened that I've two science degrees, and have been forced (for lack of a better word), into working in a job that isn't ideal, it is better than what I had before - zip, zilch, nada.

Who knows what may come of this job and hopefully now that I am employed, I may have a better chance of obtaining employment in my field of interest.

Essentially, I have only come here to thank the people who gave me advice and also to tell others (that may, just like me be qualified to masters level but feel unemployable), that it does get better.

An opportunity will be given to you at some point, and while I can't guarantee it'll be a job in your field of qualifications - it is something.

Onwards and upwards.

Thanks again boards.ie

J Mysterio

Congrats dude!

erpmeis

Just a quick update.

Have some time on my hands and while it's in my mind to post here, I should take the opportunity.

I've been applying to jobs in my field, while listing my part-time job under current employment.

Interestingly, I've been hearing back from companies and have had two interviews since doing so.

Essentially, if you are unemployed yet highly qualified, best of luck in finding a job in your field of qualification.

Perhaps I'm an isolated case, but I'm completely certain at this point that my previous applications were disregarded because I was unemployed.

I know this, as the companies I've been interviewing with are companies I previously applied to with almost identical roles.

While I've managed to obtain interviews, I've been met with another obstacle in that alternative candidates are chosen for the roles because of prior experience.

Guess I just have to keep applying and hope that somehow I'm afforded an initial opportunity.

Thanks for the help, and to those in my position unable to obtain interviews - get a job, any job.