Cctv in irish courts

Legallaw2017

Hey basically looking for reinsurance here

If I have cctv and a crime is captured on it, if the garda intend on using this evidence in court?

Do I need to go to court to confirm I'm the owner of the footage captured in order for it to be used in court evidence

Victor

In certain situations, there may be a requirement to give evidence that digital media is a true representation of the events that occurred. Digital media is more susceptible to manipulation than analogue media or chemical film.

Legallaw2017

Victor wrote: »

In certain situations, there may be a requirement to give evidence that digital media is a true representation of the events that occurred. Digital media is more susceptible to manipulation than analogue media or chemical film.

Thanks for reply.
I understand that it can be easy to manipulate digital footage, but not really an accurate answer to my question. Ill specify more..

If I use cctv footage and a crime is committed which my cctv captures, if the footage is been used in court evidence, against a suspect. if the suspect pleads not guilty,his guilt must be proven, does the lawful owner of such footage need to go to court to confirm the authenticity of the footage

CIARAN_BOYLE

If the authenticity of the footage is challenged I would imagine that the owner may need to give evidence that there was no tampering with the footage. I suppose it depends on how the image was retrieved. The controller of the footage may need to testify instead of or as well as the owner.

CIARAN_BOYLE

If the authenticity of the footage is challenged I would imagine that the owner may need to give evidence that there was no tampering with the footage. I suppose it depends on how the image was retrieved. The controller of the footage may need to testify instead of or as well as the owner.

Gaillimh1976

We had a case a couple of years ago

The staff member who copied the footage on to disk for the Gardai had to appear in court & testify that he had not altered the footage when putting it on the disk

Legallaw2017

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

If the authenticity of the footage is challenged I would imagine that the owner may need to give evidence that there was no tampering with the footage. I suppose it depends on how the image was retrieved. The controller of the footage may need to testify instead of or as well as the owner.

Thanks for reply,

So essentially what you are saying in the case.of a not guilt plea, the evidence of cctv must be backed up by an owner or a controller

So therefore a garda saying in court that this footage was retrieved from such and such place is not admissible, an owner or controller must confirm, so therefore I would need to go to court

Legallaw2017

Gaillimh1976 wrote: »

We had a case a couple of years ago

The staff member who copied the footage on to disk for the Gardai had to appear in court & testify that he had not altered the footage when putting it on the disk

Thanks for reply
So therefore if garda take a copy of my footage and intend on showing the court such footage. I would need to testify,, as im the owner and.its on my premises

Gaillimh1976

Legallaw2017 wrote: »

Thanks for reply
So therefore if garda take a copy of my footage and intend on showing the court such footage. I would need to testify,, as im the owner and.its on my premises

Open to correction, but I think that's only if the other side challenge the validity of the footage.

Also I don't think it matters if you are the owner or not, it's the person who copied the footage.

We have since decided to get our CCTV provider to do any such copying for future incidents, takes the issue out of our hands.

aj89

Gaillimh1976 wrote: »

Also I don't think it matters if you are the owner or not, it's the person who copied the footage.

Correct, it is not the owner but the person who copied it. I have had to do this a few times for work. Each time the Garda comes to collect said footage, I sign a statement stating that I have retrieved the footage and copied it and gave it to the Garda. I have never once been called to court afterward.

Legallaw2017

aj89 wrote: »

Correct, it is not the owner but the person who copied it. I have had to do this a few times for work. Each time the Garda comes to collect said footage, I sign a statement stating that I have retrieved the footage and copied it and gave it to the Garda. I have never once been called to court afterward.

Hmm thanks for the responses

I'm not decided on what to believe, do the garda not copy the footage ?

aj89

They may in some instances, but in my job we would know about some incidents long before the Garda. We would copy the footage to ensure that it is not lost.

Indricotherium

aj89 wrote: »

Correct, it is not the owner but the person who copied it. I have had to do this a few times for work. Each time the Garda comes to collect said footage, I sign a statement stating that I have retrieved the footage and copied it and gave it to the Garda. I have never once been called to court afterward.

How does chain of custody work on digital evidence?

Once it is burned onto some sort of durable medium like a DVD is it just treated as a physical piece of evidence?

Legallaw2017

Gaillimh1976 wrote: »

Open to correction, but I think that's only if the other side challenge the validity of the footage.

Also I don't think it matters if you are the owner or not, it's the person who copied the footage.

We have since decided to get our CCTV provider to do any such copying for future incidents, takes the issue out of our hands.

Thanks again,

So say for argument sake, me and you are in a room, the room is owned by you, I break and smash up the room, the damage is caught on cctv, you report to garda, they take copy, I'm charged on criminal damage, I plead not guilty, in order for the cctv to be played you must testify in court that you had control of the original copy that was given to garda.. a garda saying he received a copy is not good enough or saying he copied it is not good enough

CIARAN_BOYLE

Legallaw2017 wrote: »

Gaillimh1976 wrote: »

Open to correction, but I think that's only if the other side challenge the validity of the footage.

Also I don't think it matters if you are the owner or not, it's the person who copied the footage.

We have since decided to get our CCTV provider to do any such copying for future incidents, takes the issue out of our hands.

Thanks again,

So say for argument sake, me and you are in a room, the room is owned by you, I break and smash up the room, the damage is caught on cctv, you report to garda, they take copy, I'm charged on criminal damage, I plead not guilty, in order for the cctv to be played you must testify in court that you had control of the original copy that was given to garda.. a garda saying he received a copy is not good enough or saying he  copied it is not good enough

I would presume that you would have to challenge the validity of the cctv for him to be required to give testimony on its validity.

brian_t

Legallaw2017 wrote: »

Thanks again,

So say for argument sake, me and you are in a room, the room is owned by you, I break and smash up the room, the damage is caught on cctv, you report to garda, they take copy, I'm charged on criminal damage, I plead not guilty, in order for the cctv to be played you must testify in court that you had control of the original copy that was given to garda.. a garda saying he received a copy is not good enough or saying he copied it is not good enough

I'd be testifing in court anyway as a witness as I was with you in the room when you smashed it up (presumably - according to you).

Victor

brian_t wrote: »

I'd be testifing in court anyway as a witness as I was with you in the room when you smashed it up (presumably - according to you).

Sure, but in large crime incident scenes, the CCTV and each witness may only have part of the whole story. Similarly, as human memory fades or blurs facts (and people lie), the witnesses can verify a general account of the events, while the CCTV will give visual evidence.

Legallaw2017

Victor wrote: »

Sure, but in large crime incident scenes, the CCTV and each witness may only have part of the whole story. Similarly, as human memory fades or blurs facts (and people lie), the witnesses can verify a general account of the events, while the CCTV will give visual evidence.

The original question asked is been lost in transaction,

If I own a premises addressed at 7 dublin street, and a robbery occurs at number 9, garda notice my footage and ask for a copy,they can visually see a suspect, the suspect is identified, and charged, the suspect pleads not guilty, someone belonging to number 7 must testify in court stating the footage was retrieved from that dwelling, so therefore in this case, in order for cctv to be played in court at a hearing day, the cctv owner or controller will.need to.be oresent in court,, even.if.the gards can see.crystal clear they still need.verification via oath