Self build- what comes first. Please help

flowersinhair

Hi folks, Looking for some guidance on the area of self builds. Myself and my other half are in the the process of savings for a home. After many discussions, we hope to build a home and think we will be financially ready to approach the bank in approx 6 months. We are using this time to research this area. We do not have any site available to us and therefore will hope to purchase one locally. As this is an unfamiliar area to us both, we are on a learning journey. I have been looking online but can't seem to find out what the very first step of a self build is. Do you approach the bank first, identify a site first, or approach an architect first to get drawings? I thought you would need to approach an architect with your design, then identify a site and apply for planning before you purchase? This is such a daunting area for us, your advice would be gratefully appreciated.
Many thanks

tobdom

You should really be starting with finding a site as the first step, I would say. Designing the house should then (to some extent) take the site profile, orientation and environment into account. If and when you find a site, I would then approach an architect/engineer with your ideas/desires and have them draft a design to go for planning with (you could go for planning without buying the site - agreeing with the landowner that purchase is conditional on being granted planning, assuming they are OK with this/waiting etc.).

Realistically no point in approaching a bank until you have planning, but it would certainly be good to have an idea of how much you think you can afford, as well as what you are likely (realistically) to get from the bank - don't forget to research the Revenue 'Help to buy' scheme if you are both first-time 'buyers'.

And be prepared for everything to take ages - however long you thing something (each step of the process) might take, double it, at least! (half joking/half serious here)

While looking for a suitable site, make sure you do your research on the local authority and what type of hurdles you might face in getting planning, local housing need, environmental considerations etc. etc........

Best of luck with it - it's a journey, and certainly a marathon (rather than a sprint)....... maybe more like an Ultra-marathon! :-)

B-D-P--

This is a topic thats been covered dozens of times on this forum, If I was you I' do a bit of searching on the site you'll find what you need.

covey09

Id start looking at the planning its an eye opener. To be fair i didn't know until i looked thought i could just buy a site and build. look at your county development plan for the words "Rural Area under strong urban influence"

JimmyMW

flowersinhair wrote: »

Hi folks, Looking for some guidance on the area of self builds. Myself and my other half are in the the process of savings for a home. After many discussions, we hope to build a home and think we will be financially ready to approach the bank in approx 6 months. We are using this time to research this area. We do not have any site available to us and therefore will hope to purchase one locally. As this is an unfamiliar area to us both, we are on a learning journey. I have been looking online but can't seem to find out what the very first step of a self build is. Do you approach the bank first, identify a site first, or approach an architect first to get drawings? I thought you would need to approach an architect with your design, then identify a site and apply for planning before you purchase? This is such a daunting area for us, your advice would be gratefully appreciated.
Many thanks

I would approach the bank first and see how much you can borrow, set your budget and see if a build is feasible first. Make sure to account for all fees, design, connection etc. estimate everything a little on the high side and then if things are still financially viable look for a suitable site that will work within your budget. Best of luck

dellas1979

Hi OP,

Am currently designing a house with an architect.

I've often thought about keeping a blog about building. As you are right-there are no places that explain what to do! I had no clue but tried to think about it logically.

I have a site (family land). And am using this as collateral (i.e., no deposit).

First thing I did 6/7 weeks ago is approach the bank (like an advisory meeting) to see how much/the max I could borrow. I now every month (for next 6 months) have to save a stress test amount (i.e., repayment of monthly mortage plus e300 extra for the stress).

Then, I researched an architect (and went to see some houses he designed and talked to people who used him). Who builds houses to the spec design I want (passive house). I told him how much I can borrow. And that's it. Design me a house for that. Architects (especially RIAI registered ones) do cost more. If you have an idea for plans, an engineer could draw them up. I preferred to use architect and keep them on for the build.

Prior to submitting for planning, the bank have advised me that I need to submit a form (which bank gives you and architect fills in). All this is needed for pre-mortgage application (the application usually only lasts 6 months). The bank then will send out someone to value the build and land.

The design then goes off for planning permission.

In the meantime, I (hopefully) get mortgage approval.

Some things to be aware of. The bank will only give you the cost of the build. To actually build the house. AFAIK, they wont lend for you to buy a site (or at least bank am going with).

Cost of the build does not include: Architect fees (few thousand), percolation test (up to e1000), council fee (council fee for me is e31 per square meter), hooking up to ESB (few thousand), and water (few thousand).

The bank will expect you to use any savings you have towards this. Any savings used for your build need to be receipted.

In a nutshell, as posted above, visit the bank first. As they have the purse strings ;-)

Hope some of this helps!

tobdom

It's interesting to see the different feedback/advice from people, and it's all valid. I suppose the reason I wouldn't say talk to the bank first is, you will easily be 6 months down the road from here (conservative estimate) before you'll have gotten planning - that's if you find, sign & seal a suitable site in fairly short order (which as I said before, could be made conditional on you getting granted planning). Depending on where you think you'd like to build, and depending on your own situation (if you're from that area etc.), it might not even be a reality that you would get planning (not trying to be a doomsayer, just a realist).

In that time, who know what might have changed with your own circumstances, considerations around the housing market and any additional steps the government might take (like the HTB scheme), bank policy etc etc. In terms of how much you can borrow/afford, you should be able to roughly work off the guideline of the central bank rules (3.5 x salary etc.)......

You say you think you will be financially ready to approach the bank in approx 6 months - perhaps it could be worth talking to a broker now to get a feel for things and they may also give you some good advice.

dellas1979

Well, as the bank said to me, what is the point in going for planning permission, if you cant get the money to build. The pre-mortgage approval would go in just before applying for planning.

Its only a "what do I need to do" kindof meeting. Not a formal one where you are making an application.
But, all ducks need to be in a row. And first, thats knowing how much they can borrow, how much they need to save to make an application, how will they fund buying the site and design of the property. What forms the architect/engineer need to fill in for mortgage application.

Anything could change between now and then, minds can change, and may not change, but if organised, they will save themselves a lot of hassle.

tobdom

Yea, I completely see what you are saying, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing - but I suppose it's just differing approaches. It's kind of a chicken & egg situation.

Any person should already know, roughly, how much they can borrow (max) based on central bank rules and what their salary is. In some cases an exception might be granted depending on the bank and how much of their loan book is already an exception to the rules.....

My point would be, "knowing how much they can borrow"..... to build what? Getting planning is one thing, and then you have to get it costed, and then actually go out to tender. Timelines have a potentially big effect on this. We got planning and we had a detailed costing done in Feb 2015 - our circumstances changed (not financial) and we're only now at the stage of actually proceeding to get a mortgage & start the build. Our costing has gone up a full 20% (!!) in that time due to cost of materials & labour......

As for mortgage pre-approval going in just before planning, I'm not sure how useful that would be. Best (realistic) case scenario for planning grant would be 10 weeks turnaround time, and that is unlikely, especially if there are any requests back for further info. Then once you have planning, you get your construction drawings/specification & go to tender, another 3/4 weeks easy. Then you pick a builder to go with and look to start and you may then be at the stage where your resubmitting documentation to the bank to see where you're at by that stage.

Anyway, I suppose there's no one, perfect approach and it's each to their own.

dellas1979

See, in my case anyways, the bank want to know (prior to planning) how much (estimated) the house will cost to build.
So, I have to fill in/get the architect to fill a form stating how much the house will cost (prior to submitting for planning).
It does make sense to do that - there is no point in designing a house, and then realising you dont have the money (or cant get the money) to build it. And the redesign.
I mean, ok...maybe if two people are making a joint application, and money is a plenty. In my case again, I only have one salary to contribute to this, so I was very upfront with the architect that that is all the bank will give me, so if youre going to design a 2500sq ft house, that aint gonna happen.

covey09

Chicken or Egg

dellas1979

I guess-but I dont really understand why design a house that may be outside what the bank will give you.

tobdom

dellas1979 wrote: »

I guess-but I dont really understand why design a house that may be outside what the bank will give you.

Would the general 'rule of thumb' (CB rules, 3.5 x salary etc.) not be enough of an assumption to work off though? Given that even if you talk to the bank before planning, it's still only an estimate of what they might give you as you'll have to furnish them with fully costed accurate plans for a house that you have obtained planning for, before they'll grant you a mortgage.

I think you can guesstimate better how much money you're likely to be able to borrow (or how much you're comfortable borrowing), rather than whether or not you'll get planning for your desired house.... Granted, if there are 'issues' with your planning around the house design itself, the likely change will be a smaller (cheaper) house than anything else.

dellas1979

I suppose. But at least you know what is what. There is so much cost to building (that banks wont loan you), and form filling in.
Rather than designing something. Paying for that. Only to be told no by the bank.
I mean, really (even myself) I dont know anything until the pre-mortage approval (which is required by bank before planning). And TBH, I see their point.

But if someone wants to go off an design a house, not really knowing whats what (budget-wise), thats their choice too obvs. Maybe there is no worries on house size or how to pay the bank back. Myself, on a limited budge, I have to know.

Jofspring

I have full planning permission and tenders gone out to see what kind of figure comes back but I don't have the mortgage sorted yet. What I did do was go into the bank before I had even applied for planning to see what I could borrow if I was to just buy a house. I was given a figure and the go ahead to look at houses. I told the bank the situation that I might go for planning permission and go down that route and was basically told I should be able to borrow a little bit more with the land taken into consideration. So far though I have used the original amount given by the bank as my guideline.

covey09

dellas1979 wrote: »

I guess-but I dont really understand why design a house that may be outside what the bank will give you.

IMO if you are going self build, then you need a site. The site location will dictate what kind of house you can build and ultimately the final budget.

efbeef

We are currently in the middle of a self build (direct labour). We first decided where we wanted to live so the site was picked first (family land so had a few choices). When we picked we went on to an online mortgage calculator to see how much we could roughly borrow. Next we went for a preplanning meeting with house ideas we liked before we even though about house design and I can honestly say this is ESSENTIAL. Only after this did we go to engineer and designed the house. After planning was obtained we went to the bank and got money sorted.

I was shocked by what we were not allowed build. No full 2 storey, height of roof restriction, colour of windows restriction etc...

BryanF

efbeef wrote: »

We are currently in the middle of a self build (direct labour). We first decided where we wanted to live so the site was picked first (family land so had a few choices). When we picked we went on to an online mortgage calculator to see how much we could roughly borrow. Next we went for a preplanning meeting with house ideas we liked before we even though about house design and I can honestly say this is ESSENTIAL. Only after this did we go to engineer and designed the house. After planning was obtained we went to the bank and got money sorted.

I was shocked by what we were not allowed build. No full 2 storey, height of roof restriction, colour of windows restriction etc...

OP it's best to bring house designer to the pre-planning meeting. They will be more equipped to interpret the planning guidance.