Seeking economical €20k newish motor

golfer555

The age old question but I've a budget of around €20,000 and want a fairly nice but more importantly economical car for the money which is relatively new. Going to test drive the Opel Astra 1.6 110 saloon on Wednesday as its nearly top of the class in terms of MPG, which is costing around the 20k mark. Also looking at the Ford Mondeo, 2015 onwards, what others should I be looking out for?

bazz26

The Astra saloon is based on the old model Astra which was around since 2009 so it's a bit long in the tooth. You should be at least looking at the newer hatchback version from 2016 onwards if your considering an Astra.

Mondeo is a bigger car and most of the newer type ones within your budget will probably be the 1.6 TDCi which in a car that size and weight won't be the most frugal. Try and find a 2.0 TDCi, the bigger engine will be under less stress pushing the body around making it more frugal.

golfer555

bazz26 wrote: »

The Astra saloon is based on the old model Astra which was around since 2009 so it's a bit long in the tooth. You should be at least looking at the newer hatchback version from 2016 onwards if your considering an Astra.

Good point. The newer version of the Astra saloon (from 2015 or 16) has a 1.6 engine compared to the older version of 1.7 which was noisier and is now more efficient. The body shape is quite nice but the interior is indeed a little dated at this stage. Still though you can get a 16 reg for €19,000 which isn't bad.

listermint

Conventionally Sounded mad. But it really has to now makeup part of the conversation when someone uses the term economic.

Have you considered electric? Costing the guts of about 4 euro to cover well over 200km it's something that more and more drivers should and are now examining seriously.

The leaf. The Iconic
Some hybrids from Prius to Lexus models.

bazz26

golfer555 wrote: »

Good point. The newer version of the Astra saloon (from 2015 or 16) has a 1.6 engine compared to the older version of 1.7 which was noisier and is now more efficient. The body shape is quite nice but the interior is indeed a little dated at this stage. Still though you can get a 16 reg for €19,000 which isn't bad.

The saloon is the Astra J from 2009 to present, it got engine upgrades during that time but it's still an 8 year old design. The current hatchback is the Astra K which is from 2016 onwards and a much better car than the Astra J.

FortySeven

Honda civic. Petrol. Never face the maintenance costs of a diesel.

AMKC

Why not try something different. How about a Suzuki?

http://www.suzuki.ie/2016/cars/new-sx4-scross/

You could have a brand new one for a just under 21 thousand euros with the 1 litre boosterjet engine.

There is always the Vitara as well which would be a bit smaller a bit cheaper.

golfer555

bazz26 wrote: »

The saloon is the Astra J from 2009 to present, it got engine upgrades during that time but it's still an 8 year old design. The current hatchback is the Astra K which is from 2016 onwards and a much better car than the Astra J.

Again that's fair point. The hatchback would have been ideal a few years back I'm just thinking of something a little bigger now.

FortySeven wrote: »

Honda civic. Petrol. Never face the maintenance costs of a diesel.

Diesel maintenance isn't that bad is it?

AMKC wrote: »

Why not try something different. How about a Suzuki?

http://www.suzuki.ie/2016/cars/new-sx4-scross/

You could have a brand new one for a just under 21 thousand euros with the 1 litre boosterjet engine.

There is always the Vitara as well which would be a bit smaller a bit cheaper.

Just had a little look at the SX4, looks good and like the three years free servicing. Never would have looked at a car like this without boards.

golfer555

FortySeven wrote: »

Honda civic. Petrol. Never face the maintenance costs of a diesel.

Having a look at this civic at €21k but diesel, great MPG.

http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1640520&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D32%26o%5B%5D%3D282%26f%3D2%26yn%3D2015%26g%3D0%26z%3D-8

Azatadine

golfer555 wrote: »

Having a look at this civic at €21k but diesel, great MPG.

http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1640520&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D32%26o%5B%5D%3D282%26f%3D2%26yn%3D2015%26g%3D0%26z%3D-8

A good friend of mine has one. He's achieved 72 mpg from it... albeit the first week after buying it so I'm sure he was minding it. Still. Excellent.

Big improvement from the 50 odd mpg from the previous 2.2 litre model.

rob316

golfer555 wrote: »

Having a look at this civic at €21k but diesel, great MPG.

http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1640520&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D32%26o%5B%5D%3D282%26f%3D2%26yn%3D2015%26g%3D0%26z%3D-8

20k and that's the interior uggh!!

Idbatterim

at that price you could get a new octavia... petrol start from E19,750

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-reviews/skodas-octavia-has-the-future-sorted-right-now-35502899.html

AMKC

golfer555 wrote: »

Having a look at this civic at €21k but diesel, great MPG.

http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1640520&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D32%26o%5B%5D%3D282%26f%3D2%26yn%3D2015%26g%3D0%26z%3D-8

Nice car. Looks like it has good spec too.

FortySeven

golfer555 wrote: »

Diesel maintenance isn't that bad is it?

Which, (the best subjective consumer organisation) ran a petrol and a diesel for 10 years and came to the conclusion that the maintenance costs of the diesel skewed any fuel economy savings massively. The petrol won out.

High presure fuel system, egr, turbo, dpf and expensive fuel filtration all add to the cost of running a diesel. Add to this the fact that most governments now realise diesel is a filthy, poisonous technology and you will see the cheap tax disappear in the next few years. I work selling car parts and I rarely see a broken down petrol. (It happens but the recovery trucks mostly bring diesels in, usually with fuel pissing out of them or soot choking them)

Parts that fail are injectors, (1-3 hundred a pop) turbos, (5-9 hundred a pop) dpf (3-7 hundred a pop) high pressure pumps, (minimum a thousand) plus all the normal things that might go wrong on a petrol. (Starter, alternator etc)

You can also rest easy in the fact you bought something less toxic to humanity. Diesel has been missold for a generation but the truth is coming out slowly, it will be a torrent soon enough.

What's your commute and usage? Have you considered electric? Those are cheap as chips to run if suited and good enough now to be a real option.

golfer555

FortySeven wrote: »

Which, (the best subjective consumer organisation) ran a petrol and a diesel for 10 years and came to the conclusion that the maintenance costs of the diesel skewed any fuel economy savings massively. The petrol won out.

High presure fuel system, egr, turbo, dpf and expensive fuel filtration all add to the cost of running a diesel. Add to this the fact that most governments now realise diesel is a filthy, poisonous technology and you will see the cheap tax disappear in the next few years. I work selling car parts and I rarely see a broken down petrol. (It happens but the recovery trucks mostly bring diesels in, usually with fuel pissing out of them or soot choking them)

Parts that fail are injectors, (1-3 hundred a pop) turbos, (5-9 hundred a pop) dpf (3-7 hundred a pop) high pressure pumps, (minimum a thousand) plus all the normal things that might go wrong on a petrol. (Starter, alternator etc)

You can also rest easy in the fact you bought something less toxic to humanity. Diesel has been missold for a generation but the truth is coming out slowly, it will be a torrent soon enough.

What's your commute and usage? Have you considered electric? Those are cheap as chips to run if suited and good enough now to be a real option.

Thanks for this. My commute would actually be short 10k each way but every second week or so I'd do 500-800km with work and personal driving so thinking a new diesel won't give me too much engine problems (as its new) and save on fuel. Last week I did over 1,000k for example.

golfer555

Just had a look at this. Seems like good spec. Anyone have any feedback on 15 & 16 focus zetec's?

http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1704076&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D26%26o%5B%5D%3D253%26yn%3D2015%26yx%3D2015%26f1%3DSaloon%26g%3D3

cros13

TBH electric would be the best option unless you are doing more than ~150-200km more than twice a week.
For your exceptional mileage days you just use a rapid charger and grab an 80% charge in 15/20 minutes while you grab a coffee.

Definately worth you getting an extended test drive for 24/48 hours of a Hyundai Ioniq or similar.

Most people have never driven a modern EV and have no idea how much fun they are to drive or how ludicrously low the running costs are (10-12 times lower than diesel).

I had 105,000km on my i3 for it's first scheduled service, my next service is in 2019.

bear1

golfer555 wrote: »

Just had a look at this. Seems like good spec. Anyone have any feedback on 15 & 16 focus zetec's?

http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1704076&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D26%26o%5B%5D%3D253%26yn%3D2015%26yx%3D2015%26f1%3DSaloon%26g%3D3

95bhp.. I think you'd find it won't be as economical as you think when you start going over 100kph

Casati

I test drove the 110bhp Astra (5 door) and found it much better than the Focus - I'd imagine your budget would get you a decent 2016 new model which would be a much better car than the saloon. The old model Civic 1.6 is very good too

With your mileage diesel is still a good idea - and to be honest I would take a lot of the bad press with diesels with a pinch of salt- standard service costs are basically the same as with a petrol, and not all diesels will need a DPF, EGF, Turbo's replaced, Intercooler replaced, high pressure pumps replaced etc etc - at least in my experience across maybe 8 diesels since a 1999 Xantia Ive never had to replace any of that stuff.

stephenmarr

The mother in law is selling a 141 bmw 1 series diesel.
Still under warranty and with 1 free BMW service left.
In your budget.
Any interest?

golfer555

bear1 wrote: »

95bhp.. I think you'd find it won't be as economical as you think when you start going over 100kph

Is that so? They say you can get 60odd MPG but that's probably 50km MPG then so?

Had another look at a Ford Focus TITANIUM TDCi Saloon 1.6 yesterday and really liked the car, relatively low mileage (20,000km) and would set me back a little under €18,000 for a 2015. Must say looks wise I prefer it over the Astra saloon. Taking it for a spin later.

kabuxa

Audi a1. Got it in Northside. I was really impressed with service and more importantly the car.

listermint

Casati wrote: »

I test drove the 110bhp Astra (5 door) and found it much better than the Focus - I'd imagine your budget would get you a decent 2016 new model which would be a much better car than the saloon. The old model Civic 1.6 is very good too

With your mileage diesel is still a good idea - and to be honest I would take a lot of the bad press with diesels with a pinch of salt- standard service costs are basically the same as with a petrol, and not all diesels will need a DPF, EGF, Turbo's replaced, Intercooler replaced, high pressure pumps replaced etc etc - at least in my experience across maybe 8 diesels since a 1999 Xantia Ive never had to replace any of that stuff.

You changed diesels every 2 years.... Go figure...

bear1

golfer555 wrote: »

Is that so? They say you can get 60odd MPG but that's probably 50km MPG then so?

Had another look at a Ford Focus TITANIUM TDCi Saloon 1.6 yesterday and really liked the car, relatively low mileage (20,000km) and would set me back a little under €18,000 for a 2015. Must say looks wise I prefer it over the Astra saloon. Taking it for a spin later.

I personally think these small diesel cars are just not suited to higher speeds.
You could tip around at 100 just fine and it would probably give you similar mpg as quoted but I bet the moment it sees 130 it would start dropping with the revs being much higher than a higher powered diesel.
I rented a 2017 1.5 dci Quasqui last week and a low speeds it was pretty economical but once I wanted to get more out of it I found it very unresponsive and more uneconomical than my 2.0 170 Passat.

Nuw

20k should secure a relatively new Toyota Auris hybrid which should suit your needs (might not suit your driving style though), but as far as economy is concerned, you'll be saving on petrol compared to a similar sized car with petrol only, you'll be saving on insurance compared to anything else in the same class, you'll be saving on maintenance as there is almost nothing to go wrong in them (same drive-train as the prius which is pretty much bomb-proof). Plus it doesn't have the "hybrid looks", which (to me) is a plus.

Minister

I know a few mechanics - aged 50 plus - and they swear by Ford Focus and Toyota Auris/corolla.

The only problem for the mechanics is they make no money from them because they never give trouble!!!!!

knipex

FortySeven wrote: »

Which, (the best subjective consumer organisation) ran a petrol and a diesel for 10 years and came to the conclusion that the maintenance costs of the diesel skewed any fuel economy savings massively. The petrol won out.

High presure fuel system, egr, turbo, dpf and expensive fuel filtration all add to the cost of running a diesel. Add to this the fact that most governments now realise diesel is a filthy, poisonous technology and you will see the cheap tax disappear in the next few years. I work selling car parts and I rarely see a broken down petrol. (It happens but the recovery trucks mostly bring diesels in, usually with fuel pissing out of them or soot choking them)

Parts that fail are injectors, (1-3 hundred a pop) turbos, (5-9 hundred a pop) dpf (3-7 hundred a pop) high pressure pumps, (minimum a thousand) plus all the normal things that might go wrong on a petrol. (Starter, alternator etc)

You can also rest easy in the fact you bought something less toxic to humanity. Diesel has been missold for a generation but the truth is coming out slowly, it will be a torrent soon enough.

What's your commute and usage? Have you considered electric? Those are cheap as chips to run if suited and good enough now to be a real option.

It all depends on your planned usage

What kind of annual mileage will you be doing ?
Long or short journeys ?
Motorway ?
Urban driving ?

If its under 40k km per annul I would be very slow to buy diesel if under 35K km just don't.

If your doing mainly short journeys (under 10 to 15 minutes) do not buy diesel

If its urban driving then your maintenance bills will be horrendous.

If you are doing 35K plus km per annum with long motorway journeys then diesel is the way to go. Otherwise... Petrol, hybrid or what ever.

I do approx 50k km per anum, about 80% motorway driving with 50km to and from work each day. 260k km on the clock.

oil and filter every 10 to 12k km, normal fuel air etc filters at 35k

only other expense was one wheel bearing, front shocks and tires..

Urban driving, labouring etc kills DMF's

Short journeys kill DPF and ERG valves.

dunnerc

Minister wrote: »

I know a few mechanics - aged 50 plus - and they swear by Ford Focus and Toyota Auris/corolla.

The only problem for the mechanics is they make no money from them because they never give trouble!!!!!

should ask your few mechanics about Honda civics so !!
beats those 2 hands down for reliability and economy.

golfer555

Nuw wrote: »

20k should secure a relatively new Toyota Auris hybrid which should suit your needs (might not suit your driving style though), but as far as economy is concerned, you'll be saving on petrol compared to a similar sized car with petrol only, you'll be saving on insurance compared to anything else in the same class, you'll be saving on maintenance as there is almost nothing to go wrong in them (same drive-train as the prius which is pretty much bomb-proof). Plus it doesn't have the "hybrid looks", which (to me) is a plus.

So would you think about something like this? Around the 20k and MPG looks immense!

http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1702020&r=s.php?m[]=88&o[]=1154&yn=2015&f1=Hybrid&g=0

Nuw

I have no experience with this engine myself, so can't really comment on it, on paper though, it looks a tad underpowered and I doubt you'll achieve even close to the claimed mpg with it. I drove the Auris around New-Zealand last year and it's not what you'd call "good" to drive, don't get me wrong it's more than competent, straightforward and safe but not exciting. In my eyes, the only appeal of this model is the hybrid drive-train. If you want a small turbo-charged engine, I'd look elsewhere (focus with ecoboost, suzuki with boosterjet... the lot).
Another model you can't go wrong with is Honda Civic 1.8 petrol, not turbocharged but the performance/economy/reliability ratio is surreal for an engine of that era. It's quite good to drive as well.

GypsyByName

Toyota Prius! Get a japanese one!

golfer555

To conclude this thread I'm getting a Ford Focus TITANIUM 1.6 TDCi Saloon on Thursday, unless others can convince me otherwise. The saloon version is much more attractive than hatchback, nice to drive, give me little trouble and get decent MPG.

bear1

golfer555 wrote: »

To conclude this thread I'm getting a Ford Focus TITANIUM 1.6 TDCi Saloon on Thursday, unless others can convince me otherwise. The saloon version is much more attractive than hatchback, nice to drive, give me little trouble and get decent MPG.

Good luck with it, personally I'd have opted for a higher powered version but hope it fairs you well.

knipex

golfer555 wrote: »

To conclude this thread I'm getting a Ford Focus TITANIUM 1.6 TDCi Saloon on Thursday, unless others can convince me otherwise. The saloon version is much more attractive than hatchback, nice to drive, give me little trouble and get decent MPG.

What year is it ??

Not a fan of these engines to be honest but that's a personal thing..

golfer555

knipex wrote: »

What year is it ??

Not a fan of these engines to be honest but that's a personal thing..

It's a 2015 so a 1.6. The last type of car before the new 1.5 engine.

Any insight would be good. Got a private fella off the internet (who specialises in this) to look at the car and he said it was great but I'm unsure if the dealer gave him a few bob to say that to me, you'd never know!

Pkiernan

golfer555 wrote: »

It's a 2015 so a 1.6. The last type of car before the new 1.5 engine.

Any insight would be good. Got a private fella off the internet (who specialises in this) to look at the car and he said it was great but I'm unsure if the dealer gave him a few bob to say that to me, you'd never know!

Make sure it has had regular oil changes.
On the wife's car I do it every 6000 miles on that engine .

knipex

golfer555 wrote: »

It's a 2015 so a 1.6. The last type of car before the new 1.5 engine.

Any insight would be good. Got a private fella off the internet (who specialises in this) to look at the car and he said it was great but I'm unsure if the dealer gave him a few bob to say that to me, you'd never know!

IMHO those engines hate low miles short journeys. Also like frequent oil changes, every 10,000 km..

My main concern would be service history, mileage and type of driving. Its a 20,000km car with one lady owner who only used it to go to the shops.. Then I would be nervous.

If its a 60,000km car that did long motorway cruises and oil changed 3 times a year.. Open arms..

golfer555

knipex wrote: »

IMHO those engines hate low miles short journeys. Also like frequent oil changes, every 10,000 km..

My main concern would be service history, mileage and type of driving. Its a 20,000km car with one lady owner who only used it to go to the shops.. Then I would be nervous.

If its a 60,000km car that did long motorway cruises and oil changed 3 times a year.. Open arms..

It's actually on 24,000km with two previous owners. 1 was a company for four months then a women for 18 months who didn't use it a whole lot.

Should I be concerned by this? Initially I seen the low mileage and was delighted.

knipex

golfer555 wrote: »

It's actually on 24,000km with two previous owners. 1 was a company for four months then a women for 18 months who didn't use it a whole lot.

Should I be concerned by this? Initially I seen the low mileage and was delighted.

It depends on what kind of journeys she was doing.. multiple short journeys or a smaller number of long journeys.

Any service history ?

At 24K km its unlikely that any permanent damage has been done. Check clutch. Are you seeing smoke on acceleration or startup..

What kind of driving are you doing ?

bear1

How much is the car costing you? If you don't mind saying.

golfer555

bear1 wrote: »

How much is the car costing you? If you don't mind saying.

No bother it's €17,500 down from €19,000.

golfer555

knipex wrote: »

It depends on what kind of journeys she was doing.. multiple short journeys or a smaller number of long journeys.

Any service history ?

At 24K km its unlikely that any permanent damage has been done. Check clutch. Are you seeing smoke on acceleration or startup..

What kind of driving are you doing ?

It's got a full service history.

She would have been doing short journeys, car was upgraded to a bigger family car so the dealer says.

I'll be doing very long spins (600km return trips in a day) every second week and (250km) trips every week.

bear1

bear1 wrote: »

95bhp.. I think you'd find it won't be as economical as you think when you start going over 100kph

Cork to Dublin return and some pootling about in Dublin/Kildare over 3 days and I got 55mpg from one.

golfer555 wrote: »

No bother it's €17,500 down from €19,000.

Not too bad a price to be fair, a new Focus Titanium 4Dr Discounted GRP* is €23,865 inc 171 Upgrade Pack GRP, discounted from €27,615

golfer555

Augeo wrote: »

Cork to Dublin return and some pootling about in Dublin/Kildare over 3 days and I got 55mpg from one.

How would you rate that, fairly decent?

Fiskar

golfer555 wrote: »

How would you rate that, fairly decent?

Don't think anything you do will help that engine. I have an S40 1.6D with that engine from new. I have the car 10 years but gutted the DPF 2 years ago as the car was sluggish but did not display errors. My journey is 90 Km every day on what I regard as longest spins, that did not help.

Without going into detail it has now 178k Km which is not high mileage and has oil changes every 13k Km on the button since new. I am dealing with engine error code errors every other week/month but will not be spending big on it as it will be gone in 18 months. Back to a petrol for me, household has gone through 7 petrols and 3 diesels between us, 2 of the diesels (those being most recent) gave trouble warranting the DPF on my car and the EGR on her car being changed (in her car we traded in rather than fork out 800).

If you have time, find something other than the 1.6 diesel engine fitted to the Ford, PSA, S40. It will save you pain and money

golfer555

golfer555 wrote: »

How would you rate that, fairly decent?

Yup.... very good IMO. I would have been cruising at a tad over 130kph on the motorway and the pootling about was often stuck in traffic going and from Punchestown Christmas festival.

Even allowing for 10% inaccuracy it'd be 50mpg real world. It was calculated after brimming it but as it was a rental I'm not sure how full it was when I got it, needle indicated it was full of course.

The one I had was a 162 reg so a 1.5

bear1

Augeo wrote: »

Cork to Dublin return and some pootling about in Dublin/Kildare over 3 days and I got 55mpg from one.



Not too bad a price to be fair, a new Focus Titanium 4Dr Discounted GRP* is €23,865 inc 171 Upgrade Pack GRP, discounted from €27,615

That's not bad, just couldn't drive something which has a low tdi engine.
For those sort of cars 150 or even 130 would have been adequate.

bear1

bear1 wrote: »

That's not bad, just couldn't drive something which has a low tdi engine.
For those sort of cars 150 or even 130 would have been adequate.

Wouldn't fancy one myself TBH

Idbatterim

Would you consider an electric ioniq, 280 km range and would save you a fortune on diesel and potential problems with one...