Paddy Power Betting Machine - payout mystery/dispute

Trimm Trabb

This is a bit of long/complicated one so thanks for anyone who takes time to read and can offer advice:

So went into the shop on Friday and put on a €10 bet at 4/1 football accum on one of those machines and used the track my bet thing (I do these because after every 5 bets you get a free bet).

The full docket printed out with the selections, odds, stake, return etc. - but it didn't come off on a single piece of paper like it usually does - it was coming out of the machine but I had to pull the paper roll to get the rest of it out and then and just rip it off myself at the bottom - when I left it a bit of the blank paper roll that was inside the machine was sticking out the front. What I didn't notice was the barcode wasn't at the bottom of the docket I had, but the docket is longer than usual and is just blank at the bottom.

Anyway I went into collect today and they said the bet had been cashed out for something like €5.15 on Friday night at some time after midnight, around 12.15am.

I didn't cash out the bet or even know how to do this online. (Have just checked now and there is a website called trackmybet.ie which as far as I can see you have to be registered to use, I only registered in the last 10 minutes to have a look around it). As I said I just use the machines for the free bet offer and they text you the free bet code so I've never had reason to go onto the trackmybet website.

The cashier told me she couldn't do anything for me so she rang shop support who said the same. I said I wasn't accepting that so they told me to call the shop support msyelf and I get through to the same one they had been talking to. She offered me my €10 stake back - again I declined and said I shouldn't lose out if their machine didn't print out the docket properly.
I also asked is there a chance there was a technical error because a €5 cashout for a €10 bet when all three of the games weren't starting until 3pm on Saturday seems way too low - aren't they always just about 10% less than the original stake? Certainly not half? She said there is often cashout offers like this.

So she said she couldn't do any more for me and I would have to go back into the shop and ask them to call BGT, the operator of the machines, to see could they investigate what happened. So I went back into the shop and the cashier was confused about calling BGT or what to do so she had to ring the woman from customer service back - when she rang her she was told the girl was gone home and wouldn't be back in until Thurdsay - all of 2 mins after I was on the phone to her.

Anyway the girl in the shop now rings her district manager to see can he get it paid out on 'goodwill'. He then points out that you can only cashout using the number on the top of the docket so the barcode. So I was told they aren't going to pay it out 'at the moment' but will look into it and I can back in later in the week to check on it.

All I can think of is:

It is just a big technical glitch where an incomplete docket and some sort of automated late night cash out occurred.

or

The bottom part of the docket or a duplicate docket came out when the next customer used the machine in the shop - and this customer put this docket number into his online account and was offered the 50% cash out and accepted it and either put the money into his PP online account or has a slip with €5 credit on it. Either way there should be a record of which phone number/online user cashed out the bet and where the €5.33 went..

Anyone any other ideas of what could have gone on here?

Will PP actually look into this are am I just being fobbed off? I wouldn't usually be the complaining type but given that PP is well up on me just letting this go would be really annoying. Would appreciate any advice anyone has to offer.

Division

Send PP an email explaining the situation which may be passed on to a manager who can make a decision rather than cashiers and front line support staff talking to eachother.

Ask for a resolution to the problem, offer to send them an image of the betslip and tell them that if things are not rectified to your liking you will contact IBAS on Friday.

http://www.ibas-uk.com/adjudicationForm.php

Trimm Trabb

Division wrote: »

Send PP an email explaining the situation which may be passed on to a manager who can make a decision rather than cashiers and front line support staff talking to eachother.

Ask for a resolution to the problem, offer to send them an image of the betslip and tell them that if things are not rectified to your liking you will contact IBAS on Friday.

http://www.ibas-uk.com/adjudicationForm.php

Thanks - will do that. It's such an rigmarole of a problem to explain it's almost not actually worth the €50 but it's the principle of the matter.

Will send off an email tomorrow.

DmanDmythDledge

Not sure if you are aware but the betting machines aren't operated by the bookies themselves - it's a separate company (which explains why odds on the machines can be different to prices at the counter/on the screens). Presumably the shops get a rent or commission from money made on the machine.

Anyway I would imagine you would have to be able to prove that you didn't cashout the bet yourself. Did they explain how the bet was cashed out?

I had the problem before where I left my change in the machine placing a bet and forgot to print the voucher to collect at the counter. The staff in PP were able to check the transactions on the machine and could see that the person who used it after placed bets with the cash/credits I had left in the machine. They contacted support and they agreed to cancel the bets and refund me the money.

I found them quite helpful but it does depend on the staff in the particular PP shop and who they get talking to in support. If you can prove you didn't cash out the bet then you would have a good case I would think.

Trimm Trabb

DmanDmythDledge wrote: »

Not sure if you are aware but the betting machines aren't operated by the bookies themselves - it's a separate company (which explains why odds on the machines can be different to prices at the counter/on the screens). Presumably the shops get a rent or commission from money made on the machine.

Anyway I would imagine you would have to be able to prove that you didn't cashout the bet yourself. Did they explain how the bet was cashed out?

I had the problem before where I left my change in the machine placing a bet and forgot to print the voucher to collect at the counter. The staff in PP were able to check the transactions on the machine and could see that the person who used it after placed bets with the cash/credits I had left in the machine. They contacted support and they agreed to cancel the bets and refund me the money.

I found them quite helpful but it does depend on the staff in the particular PP shop and who they get talking to in support. If you can prove you didn't cash out the bet then you would have a good case I would think.

Yeah some crowd called BGT - I'm waiting on PP to get back to me to see what the verdict is.

I'm hoping they can see themselves that I didn't cash the bet out as I wasn't registered on the trackmybet website when the bet was cashed out. I still have a feeling nobody cashed the bet out and its some type of computer mistake as a 5 euro cash out on 10euro treble with short odds prices makes no sense.

Will never use one of those machines again anyway!

Division

Trimm Trabb wrote: »

Yeah some crowd called BGT - I'm waiting on PP to get back to me to see what the verdict is.

I'm hoping they can see themselves that I didn't cash the bet out as I wasn't registered on the trackmybet website when the bet was cashed out. I still have a feeling nobody cashed the bet out and its some type of computer mistake as a 5 euro cash out on 10euro treble with short odds prices makes no sense.

Will never use one of those machines again anyway!

I never use those machines. Are they the ones that also let you play roulette? Those things should be banned completely!

Unfortunately they are incredibly profitable for the bookies so they are likely here to stay.

I would imagine that you will have no comeback. Any time I place a bet I'm told to check the slip and change. I know that this is slightly different as it was a machine, but the onus is on you to make sure your betting slip is complete and correct. It wasn't, as the barcode was missing. As a regular user, you should have been aware of this.

Trimm Trabb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would imagine that you will have no comeback. Any time I place a bet I'm told to check the slip and change. I know that this is slightly different as it was a machine, but the onus is on you to make sure your betting slip is complete and correct. It wasn't, as the barcode was missing. As a regular user, you should have been aware of this.

I would disagree that the onus should be on the customer to look for a barcode on the bottom of the slip - I mean obviously in an ideal world I would have noticed but the barcode is there for the bookie to process the bet - that's not the customers department.

Anyway it seems the problem now is more that the bet is showing as cashed out rather than the missing barcode - the two things may be connected but the woman in the shop says you can only cash out a bet with the code on top of the betslip so it seems more a matter of clarifying how the bet was cashed out or where to.

Trimm Trabb

Got an email yesterday - they paid the bet out and gave me a €10 free bet.

Seems like it was some sort of technical glitch - alls well that ends well!

Division

Did you contact IBAS?

Trimm Trabb

Division wrote: »

Did you contact IBAS?

Nah just emailed PP - the customer service rep who had previously offered to void the bet over the phone emailed me back - the bet had not been cashed out as they previously thought and for some reason the winnings were split on 2 docket numbers, the slip I had was worth €5 and the other number was worth €45. I don't know how they realised their mistake or what exactly happened but didn't ask too many questions - spent too much time on it as it was.

Division

Grand, was wondering if they did it out of the goodness of their heart or were motivated by not having to waste time dealing with IBAS. Good lesson for everyone.

Also, I believe the machine odds for football are significantly worse than odds offered online and at the counter so the machines are costing you winnings.

Trimm Trabb

Division wrote: »

Grand, was wondering if they did it out of the goodness of their heart or were motivated by not having to waste time dealing with IBAS. Good lesson for everyone.

Also, I believe the machine odds for football are significantly worse than odds offered online and at the counter so the machines are costing you winnings.

I think they found the mistake themselves, or at least they made it seem like that.

Yeah often they are worse, now and again better - I always check odds on coupon and machine. Was just using the machines when odds were the same to get those 5 euro free bets - anyway, lesson learned - not worth it.

Glenbhoy

Division wrote: »

I never use those machines. Are they the ones that also let you play roulette? Those things should be banned completely!

Unfortunately they are incredibly profitable for the bookies so they are likely here to stay.

I'm not sure if you can play roulette etc on these too, in general fixed odd betting terminals are banned in Ireland (ask Ivan Yates about that). However, I was like u until I checked out the newer versions of these machines, odds are often better for football and golf anyway, but the real bonus for me is that any football 5 timer with one loser gets u a free bet, can be any market as long as the odds are 1/5 or better. Excellent offer and of course there's the free five with every 5 bets, but that's incidental imo, definitely worth checking out whilst these introductory offers are still in existence.

JourneyMan8

never used one of these terminals before, if you win do you get paid via the machine or by the cashier?

Copper_pipe

I think you're given a voucher/slip that you give to the Person at the counter and they give you the value of it then

JourneyMan8

ah right i see makes more sense.