licence vs lease

maireadH

My son is a student in Dublin and is looking for accommodation for next year. One house they are looking at is suggesting a licence rather a lease. The landlord is using one of the rooms for storage but doesn't live there. They are hoping to rent the house for 3 years and the landlord has said he is agreeable to this. However, the landlord is 86 and his children want him to sell the house rather than renting it out so we are concerned that they could be thrown out with very little notice if the landlord is no longer able to manage the house.

Can anyone explain what a licence means to a tenant? I know they won't have the protection of the tenancies act but I can't find information on what rights, if any, they will have.

LuckyLloyd

Won't have any rights from a tenancy perspective. Will obviously retain basic rights to not be the victim of criminality, but can be asked to leave with extremely minimal informal notice.

maireadH

Thanks. From what I've read, simply calling it a licence doesn't necessarily make it a licence. I presume the fact that the landlord is using a room for storage would make it one though? I guess if they go for it, they need to get a contract licence that would allow them to stay until the end of the academic year.

Mrs OBumble

Two sides to it though: with no lease or tenancy, if they change their minds eg if one of them drops out, they can just walk out.

newacc2015

maireadH wrote: »

Thanks. From what I've read, simply calling it a licence doesn't necessarily make it a licence. I presume the fact that the landlord is using a room for storage would make it one though?

The whole thing around tenancy or license is exclusive possession. By the landlord having a storage room in the house, the RTB may not see this as a vacant possession and that your son is in fact a lodger. It is probably down to the RTB to decide.

maireadH wrote: »

I guess if they go for it, they need to get a contract licence that would allow them to stay until the end of the academic year.

IMO the contract would not be valid.

maireadH

Thanks. From what I've read, it's not clearcut and simply calling it a licence doesn't make it one. With the housing situation in Dublin, security of tenure is pretty important so we should probably talk to the accommodation office in the college and see what they say.

Samuel T. Cogley

maireadH wrote: »

Thanks. From what I've read, it's not clearcut and simply calling it a licence doesn't make it one. With the housing situation in Dublin, security of tenure is pretty important so we should probably talk to the accommodation office in the college and see what they say.

It would be a lease. What the LL is doing is a common pub conversation tactic to avoid the RTA.

maireadH

Thanks Samuel. I was hoping that might be the case as it seems like it is a bit of a fudge. Is there anywhere I could get a clear definition? The information on the RTB website is not clear.

Samuel T. Cogley

maireadH wrote: »

Thanks Samuel. I was hoping that might be the case as it seems like it is a bit of a fudge. Is there anywhere I could get a clear definition? The information on the RTB website is not clear.

Unfortunately not as each case would turn on it's own facts. FWIW my take would be move in, keep it civil and only if he takes the mickey push back with taking it to the RTB. However I wouldn't be trying to get him over a barrel either as he's been upfront, but you can 'keep him reasonable' if needed.

Samuel T. Cogley

4ensic15 and a few of us had a good discussion on this recently, I'll see if I can dig out the thread. Obviously no advice on an internet forum should be taken for gospel, especially if it comes from me and doubly so if it suffer confirmation bias but a discussion can be enlightening.

maireadH

Thanks Samuel. I agree with you re advice on the internet, but as you say, it can be helpful.

I would normally say go for it as the landlord seems like a decent guy and the rent is fair (for Dublin) but I am concerned that, as he is 86 and his children want him to sell rather than rent, if anything were to happen to him, my son and his friends could be turfed out with no notice.