Studying Law - People's Experiences?

Jurgen Klopp

Hi all

I just want opinions on people who have or are currently studying.

I'm interested in maybe studying law down the line, specifically criminal law. Is this all that covers the general day to day court cases like lads in for theft, drink driving or speeding that sorta thing or is there other elements needed for that?

I've often now sat in on court days in my free time and I've found it fascinating. Its something I'd actually like and enjoy learning rather than a for sake of it degree or job.

I am working full-time and doubt I'd be able to afford quit and do a full time course.

Are there any part time law degrees? Would they be seen as good as a full time course? I'd assume as long as it's the same level 8 or whatever an employer wouldn't mind?

Then I'd assume after a degree there are some kinds professional law society exams needed after to become a solicitor? Like say how accountants need the professional exams

Just wanted real experiences. I know it's meant to be a good profession, but how do I put it, is there many opportunities of employment or is it oversaturated?

Would I need some sort of masters or PHD to even be considered for a job these days?

Is it financially secure as in can you make a good living outside of a big firm in Dublin that sorta thing. Obviously don't want anyone's wages but what would a new hire be on in your normal everyday firm in say a Galway, etc? Then what would a fully qualified one be on? I know people say solicitors make a bomb but we know when you get into the nitty gritty it might not be so for most.

I'll probably have more questions after but it's late and I'm tired and can't think of any others I've been thinking.

Thanks very much for your time.

chops018

Use the search function and you will find loads of stuff relating to salary and day to day work etc.

Anyway, I'll give my two cents, some of it guess/estimates.

You say you like Criminal law. This is all well and good, the local DC can be like a circus some days and be very entertaining and interesting. However, you won't see this in a legal text book on criminal law. It will mostly be a study of pillar case law on an area and the legislation. I suggest get one of the latest general criminal text books and see how you like it. Plenty of part time courses in Criminal law, but just for that area you'd be looking at a Cert or a Diploma I think. If you already have a degree then possibly a Masters in Criminal Justice?

The recession seems to be over so there is plenty more opportunities out there for a variety of roles in law these days. I remember looking for a traineeship 3 years ago and there would not be very many advertised. When there was, the competition would be very high. Of course there would always be the milkrounds for the big firms, who pay well, however you'd need first class degrees, master degrees and plenty of extra circulars (sometimes this wouldn't even be enough), usually you need something to make your application stand out with the big firms e.g. if you won an all Ireland competition for playing the flute, they love that kind of stuff. It's very hard for your average 2:1 grad with small experience and little or no extra circulars to land a traineeship with them (albeit not impossible). Also note that a lot (not all) of the big firms trainees work very long hours, and sometimes they can spend hours and hours at the photocopier, before doing proper legal work on big transactions or big commercial litigation cases. Anyway, these days there seems to be plenty of small and medium sized firms looking for trainees on the law society website, which is a very good sign if you're coming to the end of your FE1's.

As for the route to be a solicitor, in a very quick explanation, you need:

- A level 8 degree (in any discipline)
- Apply to sit, and pass, all 8 FE1's (entrance exams to be eligible to enter the law society to train as a Solicitor)
- You must have a traineeship with a law firm before attending the law society's professional practice course. This course is called PPC1 and is around 8 months. You then do around 11-12 months in office training. You then go back to the law society for PPC2, which is 3 months. The your final 9-12 months in office training and you're qualified.

As you can see, if you don't already have a level 8 degree it can be a very long road. The FE1's are extremely tough, you will rarely see someone get them all in one sitting. Even people with Master's in Law find them very difficult to get through.

Also, if you're not training in one of the big firms then expect to be only paid minimum wage while training, although there are some medium firms who pay more. Also, if not in a big firm, expect to pay the law society fees for both PPC1 and possibly PPC2 which add up to around €12,800.00. The benefits of training in a big firm is: salaries of anywhere from €25k-€40k depending on the firm, and law society course fees paid for. So it can get very costly and a long process to qualify, unless training in a big firm (but expect no criminal work in a big firm, depending on what department you're put in you might not even see the inside of a court room in a big firm). I would say if you didn't have a degree and did everything step by step then an e.g. to qualification would be: degree x 3 years, say 1 year for all FE1's, then, assuming you've a traineeship and go right into Blackhall (the law society) for the PPC course and then do the in office training then that's x 2.5 years. That's 6 and a half years total. If you had a degree already then take 3 years off from that.

As for salaries upon qualifying. Big firms lower end would be €60-70k. Maybe even higher. Expect long hours though. Small and medium firms around €40-50k. I reckon a small firm in Galway would be lower end of the scale, however the hours shouldn't be as hectic. Of course that's for a newly qualified. As your career progresses and you become and expert in an area, or areas, you can get and demand more, even in a smaller firm. Again, all this is just estimate/guess work on my knowledge of the industry. Not exact figures and not figures tied to any one firm. So don't fully rely on them.

Samuel T. Cogley

A fair few people like myself like the criminal side of things much more than the rest of it. Bear in mind Criminal law quite a small portion of what you study. The law of Evidence ties in very strongly with criminal law, Constitutional law would also cover a number of crimnal cases. The rest of a degree would cover other areas of law like Land Law, Law of The European Union, Administrative Law and a likes. Equity is a magical alnd and not something your average joe even know's exists so is quite interesting in my opinion.

As for studying law go for it! It's incredibly useful in of itself and the degree is a good jumping off point for pretty much anything Arts related.

Chops has given you the solicitor route but the proper way to do it which involves capes is the barrister route. Barristers are self employed sole traders, much like a plumer or sparky, except plumbers make better money and cover a smaller area. You have to fund yourself through the Kings Inns and through 1 - 2 years of unpaid work while paying your library fee - it's far from secure but something quite a few of us aspire too if only for the swish duds!