Dublin Bus #40 Changes Dispute

devnull

It appears that according to the Unions, the changes on Sunday may not take place because they have not seen or agreed with the schedules yet.

The statement from the unions says that management have withdrawn facilities to ballot and consult with their members on the new timetable.

http://dublinbusdrivers.com/Route_40_CRD.html

As members will no doubt be aware Management have withdrawn the facilities for both Trade Unions to consult with our members to garner feedback or to ballot members on proposed versions of schedules for Route 40 in Harristown & Conyngham Rd. This change in procedures will also apply to all future schedule changes in all locations.

SIPTU had referred this non-agreed change in procedures to the WRC and conciliation took place on the 20th Feb last. Revised schedules on Route 40 were due to be implemented on the 19th Feb but due to representations, by SIPTU, to both Dublin Bus & the Schedules Tribunal Chairperson this was deferred till the 05th March allowing us to discuss the issue at the WRC.

At the WRC both Unions argued that Management were in breach of procedures and that our members democratic input into shaping their working conditions were being withdrawn. Unfortunately, Dublin Bus were not prepared to negotiate meaningfully at that forum.

Both Unions attended a meeting with Management in head office yesterday. SIPTU argued that the versions of Route 40 fixed for implementation by the Tribunal Chairperson (Version 1 in Harristown & Version 2 in Conyngham Rd) were now changed by Dublin Bus and as such these could not be implemented as and from the 05th March next.

The NBRU proposed a further meeting in both locations for the 01st March and a Schedules Tribunal for the 03rd March which will allow the implementation of the Company’s proposed Versions of Route 40 schedules for the 05th March. SIPTU opposed as this as we contend it is in breach of the schedules guidelines and the process should have re-commenced as per the 6 week’s timeframe. Unfortunately, this NBRU proposal will also not address the wider issue of lack of opportunity to consult with members going forward in all locations.

SIPTU will continue to argue for our members in this regard so as to ensure you have an input into future schedule changes.

n97 mini

Seems like the woorkers are unhappy about not being given the opportunity to be unhappy?

Cookie_Monster

Surely the NTA set the changes now and DB simply have to comply? It's not a management decision, but merely complying with requirements, no?

ED E

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Surely the NTA set the changes now and DB simply have to comply? It's not a management decision, but merely complying with requirements, no?

Yeah but the unions have to show who's boss anyways.

loyatemu

even if the NTA decide the timetable, DB have to agree working rosters with the unions, presumably that's where the disagreement lies here.

devnull

Indeed, but on here every time there is an issue with a timetable and rotas in the past, certain posters have said it has nothing to do with drivers as they have no say on it and the NTA has power to make them do anything and if the staff want to object they can't.

Dravokivich

I don't see the point in disputing Rotas over one route. They have a big issue with how they alternate shift work as it is. I think they need to be reviewed on the whole. Not per route.

devnull

What actually is the core of the problem anyway? Please don't tell me it's about overtime or having to work "too much" ?

Dravokivich

I'm not sure about route 40.

But issues I've witnessed with Rotas is the pattern from Early Shifts to Late shifts is too sudden. There's no proper gradual step up / step down. There's been plenty of times someone I know has had an early start one day, followed by a late start the next.

StreetLight

Timetable change deferred until 19 March.

Cookie_Monster

loyatemu wrote: »

even if the NTA decide the timetable, DB have to agree working rosters with the unions, presumably that's where the disagreement lies here.

well then it's time to start offering these routes to companies who can implement the NTA requirements without all this ****ing around...

LeinsterDub

I'm going to be blunt here. Just drive the ****ing bus lads. It's not your job to be consulted on the route.

markpb

Dravokivich wrote:

But issues I've witnessed with Rotas is the pattern from Early Shifts to Late shifts is too sudden. There's no proper gradual step up / step down. There's been plenty of times someone I know has had an early start one day, followed by a late start the next.

That's the first time I've seen this kind of shenanigans by Dublin Bus unions properly explained. Kudos to you.

Chris_5339762

We have that all the time in my job. 8 - 4 one day, 10 - 6 (or even 11 - 7, or 11 - 8) followed by an 8 - 4 the next day.

We don't like it, but thats the way it is. We're not a big enough group to fight it, either.

Mongfinder General

The 40 bus is an absolute mad shop. I've seen Windows bricked in, Windows kicked out, junkies fighting and general scumbaggery that is just out of control on that bus route. The union would have a stronger case in arguing that their drivers should not have to work in those conditions. The change brought in is set to encompass Charlestown shopping centre which is already served by the 140, 83, 40b and 9. Not really necessary.

RobbingBandit

Mongfinder General wrote: »

The 40 bus is an absolute mad shop. I've seen Windows bricked in, Windows kicked out, junkies fighting and general scumbaggery that is just out of control on that bus route. The union would have a stronger case in arguing that their drivers should not have to work in those conditions. The change brought in is set to encompass Charlestown shopping centre which is already served by the 140, 83, 40b and 9. Not really necessary.

40 serves finglas south which doesn't have any bus that goes to Charlestown shopping centre, loads of the drivers are very lazy and very rude on the 40 bus can be 20 minutes late 4 of them will turn up one after another, ah sure it's them LUAS works that's holding us up, the Charlestown extension is 5 minutes extra driving time from the roundabout at Aldi and Lidl where the 40 turns in towards finglas village, not much lads.

Mongfinder General

RobbingBandit wrote: »

40 serves finglas south which doesn't have any bus that goes to Charlestown shopping centre, loads of the drivers are very lazy and very rude on the 40 bus can be 20 minutes late 4 of them will turn up one after another, ah sure it's them LUAS works that's holding us up, the Charlestown extension is 5 minutes extra driving time from the roundabout at Aldi and Lidl where the 40 turns in towards finglas village, not much lads.

Have you driven in town lately? I don't even take the bus anymore. I cycle in and out of town. The luas works have fcuked up everything and it was bad enough before it. The 40 is a cross city service and is prone to delays. A bus driver can only drive his own bus. As for being rude what do you expect when you're dealing with animals all day long. The 40 serves Lidl at the roundabout on the North Road. It would be easier just let tut teminate there or two stops further at Charlestown rather than the loop proposed loop extension.

RobbingBandit

Vast majority of buses are cross city not just the 40 as I also stated 4 of them may come at once or in quick succession, I use the 40 as my main mode of transportation so any and all decisions made on this route have a big impact on me which is why I posted in this thread.

Mongfinder General

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Vast majority of buses are cross city not just the 40 as I also stated 4 of them may come at once or in quick succession, I use the 40 as my main mode of transportation so any and all decisions made on this route have a big impact on me which is why I posted in this thread.

It used to be my main means of transport but it's a liability getting on that bus. If the public want a service that is any way compatible with the ebb and flow of Dublin traffic then we have to temper our expectations. 4 buses showing up at once is not planned for. It is the result of cluster **** traffic management.

Dravokivich

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

We have that all the time in my job. 8 - 4 one day, 10 - 6 (or even 11 - 7, or 11 - 8) followed by an 8 - 4 the next day.

We don't like it, but thats the way it is. We're not a big enough group to fight it, either.

An early shift means starting between 5:30 to 8:00. To finish around 3 the latest.

A late shift means starting after 2 to potentially close out the route.

That's a crazy way to alternate shifts.

@markpb. As far as I can tell, the union's never make an issue of it in general, only when changes are being made as per the opening of this thread for route 40.

StreetLight

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'm going to be blunt here. Just drive the ****ing bus lads. It's not your job to be consulted on the route.

One of the drafts of the new schedule was found to have illegal driving hours, by DRIVERS who had been asked for their feedback. But yet you want them just to drive away, in breach of EU law and putting their driving licences at risk?

Imbecilic.

LeinsterDub

StreetLight wrote: »

One of the drafts of the new schedule was found to have illegal driving hours, by DRIVERS who had been asked for their feedback. But yet you want them just to drive away, in breach of EU law and putting their driving licences at risk?

Imbecilic.

And the lesson here is posting at 2 in the morning after a few drinks might not lead to the most informed posting ever

Voipjunkie

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Surely the NTA set the changes now and DB simply have to comply? It's not a management decision, but merely complying with requirements, no?

2 different things, the NTA set service levels, the union's aren't looking for input into that, they are looking for input into how driver's are rostered, the roster doesn't affect the service level, you can divide up the journeys in lots of different ways to make up duties, that's the unions interest.

Peregrine

Mongfinder General wrote: »

The change brought in is set to encompass Charlestown shopping centre which is already served by the 140, 83, 40b and 9. Not really necessary.

I highly doubt that the change was brought in to serve the people around the shopping centre — it'll take 45 minutes to get to the city centre from there. It'll connect the people of Finglas West and South to the shopping centre.

But I agree that the 40 is ridiculously convoluted. Merging three routes into one was never going to end well.

MGWR

Peregrine wrote: »

I highly doubt that the change was brought in to serve the people around the shopping centre — it'll take 45 minutes to get to the city centre from there. It'll connect the people of Finglas West and South to the shopping centre.

But I agree that the 40 is ridiculously convoluted. Merging three routes into one was never going to end well.

If the intent is to connect Finglas South and West to Charlestown's shopping centre, the purpose would be far better served with a local bus route rather than making a route that is supposed to connect Finglas with Dublin city centre pull double duty. The city does not have enough east-west routes as it is, and Dublin ought to make things like other cities where radial routes and cross-suburb routes can permit either free transfer or reduced-fare transfer.

Not to mention the continued folly of making routes longer, which invariably reduces reliability. I can see the 78(A) coming back one day, along with the 51(/B/C) and 77; and frankly, perhaps the 83 needs to de-merge with the former 134 (34 before that).

prettyboy81

New route started today. I was up Charlestown & 40 buses were in set down area to side of Odeon cinema.

stop

prettyboy81 wrote: »

New route started today. I was up Charlestown & 40 buses were in set down area to side of Odeon cinema.

How did they manage to park that many buses there?

prettyboy81

stop wrote: »

How did they manage to park that many buses there?

They have taken over the lay by on the road that goes around the back off the centre at the rear of the cinema with set down stops only. The bus picks passengers up at the usual stop outside main entrance.

The 40 bus are not set down in the same location, as the No. 9.