'Terminal Confusion' ?

kevin711

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/terminal-confusion-sets-in-at-dublin-airport-1.2986355

Found my way to this via airliners.net; what a completely pointless piece by the normally focused Conor Pope; the passenger in question seems to have been daydreaming instead of trying to catch her flight! Apart from her (weak) argument about poor signage, she admits it was her own fault.. and the IT thought this non-story was worth column space?!!

uck51js9zml2yt

bk wrote: »

I'm embarrassed to say, happened to me once. Arrive at gate and think to my self, why are their Aer Lingus staff at the gate, it is supposed to be a Ryanair flight. Then it dawns on me :eek:

Cue me and the other half legging it to the other end of the other terminal! Surprisingly we actually just made it!

Always check the full details now, not just the time and destination. However I will say it happens a lot, it happened to a friends mother just a week later, she missed her flight.

I think some of the confusion could be reduced by not allowing flights heading to the same location having the same departure time, put 15 minutes between them.

Like with intercity bus services, where there has to be a 30 minute between competing companies departure times.

Did it with a train in Slovakia once. 2 trains on the same platform departing within minutes in the opposite direction.
A 1 hour journey took me 5 hours to do!

The_Wanderer

Poor lass. Always read the flight number.

What happens when you have two airlines in the same terminal going to the same place at more or less the same time? e.g. FR and EI in Gatwick to Dublin?

One of those problems you cannot solve I'm afraid.

Locker10a

bk wrote: »

moloner4 wrote: »

Happens all the time when two airlines have the same flight destination at the same time. People just look at the name of destination and don't look at the airline on the boards, can't really fix that.

I'm embarrassed to say, happened to me once. Arrive at gate and think to my self, why are their Aer Lingus staff at the gate, it is supposed to be a Ryanair flight. Then it dawns on me :eek:

Cue me and the other half legging it to the other end of the other terminal! Surprisingly we actually just made it!

Always check the full details now, not just the time and destination. However I will say it happens a lot, it happened to a friends mother just a week later, she missed her flight.

I think some of the confusion could be reduced by not allowing flights heading to the same location having the same departure time, put 15 minutes between them.

Like with intercity bus services, where there has to be a 30 minute between competing companies departure times.

This has happened to some of my family too, the exact same scenario. 
I'm not sure there is really much you can do about it to be honest, putting the 15mins divide would cause a headache for the DAA, and could you imagine the stink O'Leary would create if say both Ryanair and Aer Lingus wanted a 7am departure to Gatwick, how would you decide who gets to go first, and would a 15 min gap be enough to avert the current confusion?
The problem is people arrive at the airport and they have tunnel vision, and that vision is of their own flight, they're not thinking about or considering any other flights!
If someone is going to Nantes, they arrive for their holiday, they look at the board and see Nantes, and they go to the gate number written beside it, they don't think about checking the flight number, airline, departure time etc. 
The only way of avoiding this is reverting to printing gate numbers on boarding passes or sending a text/email notification to passengers advising them of their gate 40 mins before departure.

Riskymove

Terminal confusion is only one thing....

I once arrived at Charelroi Aiport and the guy ahead of me was having trouble getting his boarding pass scanned to get through to security

It took a couple of staff before they realised he should be in Brussels Airport! Very little chance he made it!!

In fairness Ryanair had only started in Brussels very recently at the time

Del2005

Riskymove wrote: »

Terminal confusion is only one thing....

I once arrived at Charelroi Aiport and the guy ahead of me was having trouble getting his boarding pass scanned to get through to security

It took a couple of staff before they realised he should be in Brussels Airport! Very little chance he made it!!

In fairness Ryanair had only started in Brussels very recently at the time

A friend was getting the tunnel to France and the car ahead was giving over papers and shaking their head angrily then did a uturn and drove off. When my friend was checking in they asked what was happening with the car, they had tickets for the ferry and apparently its a regular occurrence and the channel tunnel is open a while.

L1011

Know someone who went to Dulles instead of National in Washington. Played the confused paddy on Patrick's Day thing and got a new connection free. As a northern unionist he felt a bit conflicted!

bk

Locker10a wrote: »

If someone is going to Nantes, they arrive for their holiday, they look at the board and see Nantes, and they go to the gate number written beside it, they don't think about checking the flight number, airline, departure time etc. 

Yup for me it was Barcelona. However it was a bit more subtle then that.

When we arrived at the airport, we did check the flight number and went through security and because we were very early, settled down to get a coffee in the main shopping area.

But then when we looked at the board again to check our gate, we only looked at the destination and time and ended up walking to the other terminal without even really thinking about it.

Had there been a few minutes difference in the departure time we would have certainly noticed the difference and I would have looked more closely at the flight number.

It is all well and good saying people should take notice, but at 5am in the morning, not everyone is totally switched on.

As a software engineer, we have the concept that if one user makes a mistake, then it is their fault. But if a lot of users are making the same mistake, then it is probably our fault for having a badly designed process or user interface and we need to fix it to eliminate this common error.

I feel like this is a regular error, then it needs to be improved by the airport and airlines.

Mebuntu

"It did not have a gate number on it so I bought myself a cup of coffee and a croissant and looked at the screens and saw the gate number was 113"

Q. What was the FR flight doing on the screens in T2 Departures? If someone really WAS looking for FR on T2 screens and didn't see it they can simply ask at the desk to learn that they are in the wrong terminal.

bk

Mebuntu wrote: »

Q. What was the FR flight doing on the screens in T2 Departures? If someone really WAS looking for FR on T2 screens and didn't see it they can simply ask at the desk to learn that they are in the wrong terminal.

Right, exactly and in my case a FR flight on the screens in the T2 shopping/food area! Bad design.

LXFlyer

Mebuntu wrote: »

Q. What was the FR flight doing on the screens in T2 Departures? If someone really WAS looking for FR on T2 screens and didn't see it they can simply ask at the desk to learn that they are in the wrong terminal.

Departure screens in the main departures area of both terminals display all flights departing from the airport.

You do realise that you can go through security in either terminal for any flight? The distinction of terminals is purely for baggage handling purposes.

A reasonable number of Aer Lingus flights go from the 3XX gates, the old pier B which is notionally in terminal 1. Also the EI Regional flights departure lounge is closer to terminal 1 security.

The terminals do not work in isolation - the airside area is considered to be one area.

Ultimately people need to take some responsibility for their own actions - there is only so much hand holding that can happen. It's pretty basic to check flight numbers, even at 05:00-06:00.

Given the range of airlines serving Dublin, the notion that only one airline will have a flight departing to one destination at a particular time is rather daft, as is the notion of regulating commercial airlines in terms of departure times on routes - it's a free market.

Riskymove

bk wrote: »

Right, exactly and in my case a FR flight on the screens in the T2 shopping/food area! Bad design.

Part of the issue is that passengers can enter security in either terminal regardless of where flight is departing from

if this wasn't allowed these issues would be picked up at that point

plodder

Is she saying that there are two gate 113's in the airport? Considering that the departure gates are shared (or connected) between the two terminals, then that would be a recipe for confusion, and pretty stupid really. Scheduling two flights to the same destination at the two of them seems almost designed to trip people up. It's Murphy's law in action. No matter how unlikely you think something is, it will always happen sooner or later if it can happen.

L1011

plodder wrote: »

Is she saying that there are two gate 113's in the airport? Considering that the departure gates are shared (or connected) between the two terminals, then that would be a recipe for confusion, and pretty stupid really. Scheduling two flights to the same destination at the two of them seems almost designed to trip people up. It's Murphy's law in action. No matter how unlikely you think something is, it will always happen sooner or later if it can happen.

There isn't. All gate numbers are unique

Nonoperational

bk wrote: »

I'm embarrassed to say, happened to me once. Arrive at gate and think to my self, why are their Aer Lingus staff at the gate, it is supposed to be a Ryanair flight. Then it dawns on me :eek:

Cue me and the other half legging it to the other end of the other terminal! Surprisingly we actually just made it!

Always check the full details now, not just the time and destination. However I will say it happens a lot, it happened to a friends mother just a week later, she missed her flight.

I think some of the confusion could be reduced by not allowing flights heading to the same location having the same departure time, put 15 minutes between them.

Like with intercity bus services, where there has to be a 30 minute between competing companies departure times.

No. Just check the night before what terminal your flight leaves from and take 1 minute to clarify the gate when you get to the airport and have some personal responsibility. It's not complicated.

plodder

L1011 wrote: »

There isn't. All gate numbers are unique

Fair enough. So, she just looked for a flight to Madrid, saw one at gate 113 and went for it. Pointless article then.

The_Wanderer

Riskymove wrote: »

Part of the issue is that passengers can enter security in either terminal regardless of where flight is departing from

if this wasn't allowed these issues would be picked up at that point

What's the issue in that?

I flew last week from T2, but I needed to go to the Gardai Station to report a crime that happened to me while en route to the airport.

So I arrived at T2, dropped the bags and then walked to the Gardai Station which is located beside the old airport terminal. Once my business there was completed, I decided to go through Security at T1 as that was closer to the Gardai Station than T2.

Went through security at T1 and then made my way to T2 to await my gate number.

No problem, no issue.

If people cannot figure out for themselves a departure board and understand the information being displayed, then should they really be let out of the house?

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

There isn't. All gate numbers are unique

plodder wrote: »

Fair enough. So, she just looked for a flight to Madrid, saw one at gate 113 and went for it. Pointless article then.

The Aer Lingus flight would have departed from either the 3XX or 4XX gates.

She simply looked for the destination and didn't check the flight number - she saw Madrid and went to gate 113 where the Ryanair flight was departing from.

That's not a design fault - it is user error.

Incidentally they don't depart at the same time - the FR flight is at 06:25 and the EI flight at 06:30, so she clearly didn't check the times either.

Given the number of destinations served by multiple airlines from Dublin and indeed other major international airports, regulating departure times for flights such as causing 15 minute gaps really is impractical and frankly unworkable.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

You do realise that you can go through security in either terminal for any flight? The distinction of terminals is purely for baggage handling purposes.

Of course I do! That is how we ended up going from T2 to T1 and then legging it back to T2.

But to all those saying "take some personal responsibility" if it happens very frequently then I'd consider it a design and process flaw.

As I said, it almost happened to me and I'm a very frequent and experienced flyer who is generally well tuned into airport and airline ops. So if it could happen to me (I blame the early time, I'm like a zombie in the mornings) then I can only imagine how often it happens to elderly people or infrequent flyers.

Perhaps a solution would be to have staff (or automated gates) checking tickets in the corridor between the terminals airside?

Perhaps you could have flashing orange lights and a constant automated announcement in the connecting corridor, telling you you are entering a different terminal and to double check your flight number. Maybe big red warning signs around the entrance? Maybe have a customer service bot right there?

Perhaps only allow people through security in the terminal they are departing from? And no connection after security between the terminals.

Perhaps rearrange the departure screens, so that flights leaving from the other terminal are displayed on a separate screen and that screen makes it very clear you are in the wrong terminal? A big screen with all the flights for the terminal you are currently in and a second smaller screen for flights for the other terminal, but with a flashing red warning sign that these are flights for the other terminal and to double check the flight number.

I think part of the issue, is the way that one flight, can have multiple flight codes due to code sharing and that the screens don't show all the codes at the same time, instead rotating through them. People often don't want to stand there waiting for their flight code to come up, instead they just glance at the destination and maybe time.

So perhaps another solution would be too have wider screens that can display all codes for a flight at the same time?

As you can see there are dozens of ways you could reduce these sort of issues. Of course you won't fix all problems, but you can certainly help reduce them.

The current set up just seems to me to be a bad design, that is set up for failure.

J.pilkington

@bk. On the one hand you are clearly accepting the blame as user error due to sleeepyness but on the other hand you are blaming the system and saying it's "set up for failure"

You say you are a seasoned traveler, if so then surely you have seen the exact same set up in most large airports with closely interlining terminals especially in the US.

Also in your 1st post you say Dublin shouldn't have flights departing to the same destination at the same time, that's a bit extreme for probably the 0.000005% of people who misinterpret a very clear display which is the same format as pretty much every airport on the world.

Who will pay the €100k per annum to employ a rolling headcount (would need 3 heads) to check the tickets between the terminal?

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

Of course I do! That is how we ended up going from T2 to T1 and then legging it back to T2.

But to all those saying "take some personal responsibility" if it happens very frequently then I'd consider it a design and process flaw.

As I said, it almost happened to me and I'm a very frequent and experienced flyer who is generally well tuned into airport and airline ops. So if it could happen to me (I blame the early time, I'm like a zombie in the mornings) then I can only imagine how often it happens to elderly people or infrequent flyers.

Perhaps a solution would be to have staff (or automated gates) checking tickets in the corridor between the terminals airside?

Perhaps you could have flashing orange lights and a constant automated announcement in the connecting corridor, telling you you are entering a different terminal and to double check your flight number. Maybe big red warning signs around the entrance? Maybe have a customer service bot right there?

Perhaps only allow people through security in the terminal they are departing from? And no connection after security between the terminals.

Perhaps rearrange the departure screens, so that flights leaving from the other terminal are displayed on a separate screen and that screen makes it very clear you are in the wrong terminal? A big screen with all the flights for the terminal you are currently in and a second smaller screen for flights for the other terminal, but with a flashing red warning sign that these are flights for the other terminal and to double check the flight number.

I think part of the issue, is the way that one flight, can have multiple flight codes due to code sharing and that the screens don't show all the codes at the same time, instead rotating through them. People often don't want to stand there waiting for their flight code to come up, instead they just glance at the destination and maybe time.

So perhaps another solution would be too have wider screens that can display all codes for a flight at the same time?

As you can see there are dozens of ways you could reduce these sort of issues. Of course you won't fix all problems, but you can certainly help reduce them.

The current set up just seems to me to be a bad design, that is set up for failure.

So how did people cope when Dublin had a single terminal with multiple flights to the same destination?

How do people cope in other single terminal airports?

I'm sorry but you're spouting nonsense. All you're doing is coming up with excuses and using the fact that Dublin has multiple piers as a reason for this woman's failure to check the flight properly?

People need to take some responsibility and check flight numbers/times.

Riskymove

The_Wanderer wrote: »

No problem, no issue.

If people cannot figure out for themselves a departure board and understand the information being displayed, then should they really be let out of the house?

I didn't say it was a problem

and it suits people...I have a relative who prefers shopping in one of the terminals and goes there regardless of where departing from

it is however, part of the issue under discussion. It could even be that it is just flagged up and people realise they are at the wrong terminal

people make mistakes...it isn't a crime

LXFlyer

Riskymove wrote: »

I didn't say it was a problem

and it suits people...I have a relative who prefers shopping in one of the terminals and goes there regardless of where departing from

it is however, part of the issue under discussion. It could even be that it is just flagged up and people realise they are at the wrong terminal

people make mistakes...it isn't a crime

Flights can go from piers in both terminals though.

Aer Lingus flights are handled in T2 but can depart from the 3XX gates which are notionally in T1. Telling someone that they were in T1 would be rather pointless.

The flights go from 1XX, 2XX, 3XX and 4XX gates - that's what people need to check.

People just need to be careful, check the flight details, and use some common sense.

bk

J.pilkington wrote: »

@bk. On the one hand you are clearly accepting the blame as user error due to sleeepyness but on the other hand you are blaming the system and saying it's "set up for failure"

I'm not sure why I need to explain this concept on a forum like this!

There are plenty of examples of highly trained pilots crashing their aircraft due to badly designed aircraft interfaces.

Whether designing software, aircraft interfaces or airports, it is imperative on designers like me (I do software) to create designs that are intuitive and help reduce mistakes that anyone can make, even the most experienced pilots.

Good design is super important in the airline industry, whether aircraft or airports.

J.pilkington wrote: »

Also in your 1st post you say Dublin shouldn't have flights departing to the same destination at the same time, that's a bit extreme for probably the 0.000005% of people who misinterpret a very clear display which is the same format as pretty much every airport on the world.

So now we are making up numbers! Neither you or I know how often this happens.

J.pilkington wrote: »

Who will pay the €100k per annum to employ a rolling headcount (would need 3 heads) to check the tickets between the terminal?

And what about the half a dozen other design options that I mentioned?

I have to say, aside from this, as a designer of software, it has always struck me that the design of airport departure boards is poor. It takes far too long for the screen to rotate through the different flight codes, causing people to stand around watching the screen, waiting for it to display their flight code. It goes against the concept of wanting to get people through the airport as quickly as possible, well at least until they get too the shops!

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

So how did people cope when Dublin had a single terminal with multiple flights to the same destination?

How do people cope in other single terminal airports?

It is less of an issue in single terminal airports as they aren't as big and if you realise your mistake you have more chance/time to get to the correct gate.

However I would still say that wider screens that display all flight codes at the same time and staggering flights to the same destination at the same time would also help alleviate the issues in single terminal airports.

Riskymove wrote: »

and it suits people...I have a relative who prefers shopping in one of the terminals and goes there regardless of where departing from

And now we are at the heart of why this can happen at Dublin Airport. The obvious way to stop this from happening is to have no public connection between the terminals after security and only allow people to go through security in the correct terminal.

But this goes against Dublin Airport wanting people to shop in both terminals and spend money. This is where an airport designer runs into an issue of two competing, somewhat incompatible goals.

- Getting people as quickly as possible to their flight
- The airport wanting to make more money.

Such compromised designs often turn up in life.

Riskymove wrote: »

people make mistakes...it isn't a crime

Thanks for saying that. I learned early on in my software development career, that even the smartest people * make mistakes all the time. And it is imperative on designers to try and help stop people from making those mistakes. Frankly it is probably what I spend 80% of my time doing.

* I mostly make software that gets used by other software engineers, so genuinely very smart people who work in the same industry and you be shocked at some of the storys I could tell you. But sometimes even very smart and usually clued in people can be very stressed and tired and over worked and make honest human mistakes.

lord lucan

This doesn't happen that often and is simply human error. No need for extra screens, segregated terminals or any such nonsense,people just need to stop and look carefully at the screen. And just to make it easier the FIDS even display the airline logo beside each flight.

Must've been an extremely slow news day at the IT.

Mebuntu

I cannot see any reason why FR flights (or any flight for airlines departing from Piers C or D) should be on the T2 Departure screens. In fact, all they are doing is unnecessarily clogging up those screens with useless information for those departing through T2.

There is also no reason why FR Boarding Passes should be accepted at the pre-Security scanners in T2. A simple programming line is all that's required. Example:

IF Flight No. begins with FR THEN Reject and DISPLAY "Go to Terminal 1" (I could think of something better but not printable on these Boards)

The next time that passenger travels they might not make the same mistake again (I know, debatable)

In the unlikely event of a tech problem at T1 scanners there could be a simple switch to the system that would then allow FR to be read at T2.

Avada

Mebuntu wrote: »

I cannot see any reason why FR flights (or any flight for airlines departing from Piers C or D) should be on the T2 Departure screens. In fact, all they are doing is unnecessarily clogging up those screens with useless information for those departing through T2.

There is also no reason why FR Boarding Passes should be accepted at the pre-Security scanners in T2. A simple programming line is all that's required. Example:

IF Flight No. begins with FR THEN Reject and DISPLAY "Go to Terminal 1" (I could think of something better but not printable on these Boards)

The next time that passenger travels they might not make the same mistake again (I know, debatable)

In the unlikely event of a tech problem at T1 scanners there could be a simple switch to the system that would then allow FR to be read at T2.

No need though in this instance it appears she went through security in T2 (she collected her boarding pass there) and walked airside to 1xx gates which I would imagine is the case in most of these instances).

BnB

I went one worse that that...... I checked in online for a flight to Manchester and was trying to get past the barrier in Dublin by scanning the Q-Code on my Ryanair App and the barrier wouldn't open. I checked the time and date a few times and still wouldn't open.... So I strolled over to the Security guy to see what the hell was wrong..... He took one look at the boarding card on my phone and he looked at me a bit puzzled and said.... This boarding card is for Shannon, not Dublin. So not alone did I go to the wrong terminal, I went to the wrong airport - at the other side of the country....!!!

Mind you, I didn't write a letter to Conor Pope complaining that Ryanair messed up by not ringing me at 4 am to make sure I was on the way to the right airport.

To be fair to Ryanair, they were actually very good on the morning. The girl I went to at the customer service desk found that a flight to Manchester that morning from Dublin was going to cost me about 200 Euro, but by putting me down as having missed my flight (Which technically I didn't) she was able to give it to me for only 100.

Xaracatz

I've missed a flight that I would take frequently when it's gates changed and I just zombied my way to the one I was accustomed to. My own fault - pure stupidity on my part.

The real question though is - what is it you do for a living bk?

LXFlyer

Mebuntu wrote: »

I cannot see any reason why FR flights (or any flight for airlines departing from Piers C or D) should be on the T2 Departure screens. In fact, all they are doing is unnecessarily clogging up those screens with useless information for those departing through T2.

There is also no reason why FR Boarding Passes should be accepted at the pre-Security scanners in T2. A simple programming line is all that's required. Example:

IF Flight No. begins with FR THEN Reject and DISPLAY "Go to Terminal 1" (I could think of something better but not printable on these Boards)

The next time that passenger travels they might not make the same mistake again (I know, debatable)

In the unlikely event of a tech problem at T1 scanners there could be a simple switch to the system that would then allow FR to be read at T2.

Why go through all that prescriptive nonsense?

People should be free to use whichever security they wish if they have nothing to check in - they may wish to visit some of the retailers in T2 as discussed in another thread before proceeding to the 1XX or 2XX gates.

J.pilkington

Mebuntu wrote: »

There is also no reason why FR Boarding Passes should be accepted at the pre-Security scanners in T2. A simple programming line is all that's required. Example:

IF Flight No. begins with FR THEN Reject and DISPLAY "Go to Terminal 1" (I could think of something better but not printable on these Boards)

The next time that passenger travels they might not make the same mistake again (I know, debatable)

In the unlikely event of a tech problem at T1 scanners there could be a simple switch to the system that would then allow FR to be read at T2.

Don't think that will work. What about EI flights with a BA number? According to your model they would not be allowed pass security at t2 and sent all the way to t1 and then walk all the way back to t2!

I honestly don't see why that's necessary, what is it achieving? A tiny % of people make this mistake, why punish them if it's achieving nothing?

Here is a scenario of a large negative of that scenario; tourist gets a taxi to the wrong terminal goes to security at t2 but gets refused, they then have to go all the way back down the terminal walk outside over by the t1 bus station and re-enter via t1. It's a whole lot of effort with nobody benefiting from it.

bikeman1

What I am failing to see is what is so difficult for people. I wonder how some people find their way home at night!

1. Arrive at the airport. It doesn't matter where.

2. Optional. Read check in desk screens to find check in desk for flight. This will bring you to the correct terminal. Check in your hold luggage.

3. If not checking in a bag. Go straight to the nearest security. If you did check in follow sign for departures.

4. Clear security. Take 30 seconds to note the GATE number of the flight that corresponds to 4 things. Flight number, departure time, destination and airline.

5. Follow signs to gate 123. Any questions, ask a staff member.

Simples.

Mebuntu

Why go through all that prescriptive nonsense?

To manage things in a clear and decisive way rather than have people wandering all over the whole concourse trying to find their way and some losing it and missing or nearly missing their flight. Nonsense, maybe, to a closed mind that believes the status quo must be preserved at all costs. I still haven't been given a valid reason why FR flights have to be displayed on T2 Departure Screens and, with the gates being displayed only an hour before flight departure time, you don't want people still up in T2 at that point who have to find their way down to 115.

they may wish to visit some of the retailers in T2

I'd be willing to bet that there are only a tiny number of passengers that would even think about traipsing to both sets of retailers. They have enough to do with queuing through Security, looking at the screens and then, maybe, having a coffee or bite to eat if time permits.

tourist gets a taxi to the wrong terminal goes to security at t2 but gets refused, they then have to go all the way back down the terminal walk outside over by the t1 bus station and re-enter via t1.

Too bad if they're that stupid.

J.pilkington

Mebuntu wrote: »

To manage things in a clear and decisive way rather than have people wandering all over the whole concourse trying to find their way and some losing it and missing or nearly missing their flight. Nonsense, maybe, to a closed mind that believes the status quo must be preserved at all costs. I still haven't been given a valid reason why FR flights have to be displayed on T2 Departure Screens and, with the gates being displayed only an hour before flight departure time, you don't want people still up in T2 at that point who have to find their way down to 115.

I'd be willing to bet that there are only a tiny number of passengers that would even think about traipsing to both sets of retailers. They have enough to do with queuing through Security, looking at the screens and then, maybe, having a coffee or bite to eat if time permits.

Too bad if they're that stupid.

Okay now you are inventing unrealistic reasons,

Can I ask you, is there any reason that this bothers you so much that you want to make peoples lives so difficult by implementing harsh penalties? There is no upside to your proposal other than punishing "stupid" people. Seems a real juvenile reason

smurfjed

There are plenty of examples of highly trained pilots crashing their aircraft due to badly designed aircraft interfaces.

Which crashes were you thinking about?

The obvious way to stop this from happening is to have no public connection between the terminals after security and only allow people to go through security in the correct terminal.

Please don't do this until Victoria Secret opens in Grafton Street.... I always wander across to terminal 2 to do some shopping.

Mebuntu

J.pilkington wrote: »

Okay now you are inventing unrealistic reasons,

Can I ask you, is there any reason that this bothers you so much that you want to make peoples lives so difficult by implementing harsh penalties? There is no upside to your proposal other than punishing "stupid" people. Seems a real juvenile reason

In a Forum discussion you need to provide counter-arguments to those you feel you do not agree with rather than throwing insults.

Del2005

bk wrote: »

Of course I do! That is how we ended up going from T2 to T1 and then legging it back to T2.

But to all those saying "take some personal responsibility" if it happens very frequently then I'd consider it a design and process flaw.

As I said, it almost happened to me and I'm a very frequent and experienced flyer who is generally well tuned into airport and airline ops. So if it could happen to me (I blame the early time, I'm like a zombie in the mornings) then I can only imagine how often it happens to elderly people or infrequent flyers.

Perhaps a solution would be to have staff (or automated gates) checking tickets in the corridor between the terminals airside?

Perhaps you could have flashing orange lights and a constant automated announcement in the connecting corridor, telling you you are entering a different terminal and to double check your flight number. Maybe big red warning signs around the entrance? Maybe have a customer service bot right there?

Perhaps only allow people through security in the terminal they are departing from? And no connection after security between the terminals.

Perhaps rearrange the departure screens, so that flights leaving from the other terminal are displayed on a separate screen and that screen makes it very clear you are in the wrong terminal? A big screen with all the flights for the terminal you are currently in and a second smaller screen for flights for the other terminal, but with a flashing red warning sign that these are flights for the other terminal and to double check the flight number.

I think part of the issue, is the way that one flight, can have multiple flight codes due to code sharing and that the screens don't show all the codes at the same time, instead rotating through them. People often don't want to stand there waiting for their flight code to come up, instead they just glance at the destination and maybe time.

So perhaps another solution would be too have wider screens that can display all codes for a flight at the same time?

As you can see there are dozens of ways you could reduce these sort of issues. Of course you won't fix all problems, but you can certainly help reduce them.

The current set up just seems to me to be a bad design, that is set up for failure.

Make something idiot proof and they'll just make a better idiot. No matter what you do someone will still make a mistake and blame everyone and everything bar themselves.

JCX BXC

At no stage did it occur to the person in question to ask one of the many staff around the airport where the gate for the Aer Lingus flight to Madrid?

Nor did it occur to check the flight number and time against the arrival board. Or maybe just the airline logo?

This is one of the most bizzare things I've ever read. Is it really getting so awful now days that people go to these extents to blaim others for their mistakes?

Deagol

Easily done, I am a very frequent flyer and I was heading from SNN via LHR to CDG recently.

Got to LHR and found lots of delays due to weather, looked at screens in T5 and found CDG / BA flight and headed to T5C. Stood there for 45 mins, wondering why the flight was even later than announced earlier, gate announcment comes on and suddenly I realise the flight number is not what I have on my BP.

Queue the sudden panic to realise BA have two flights to CDG within 35 mins of each other.

Not tooo mad until I find that once you got to T5C in LHR, you must go through immigration to get back to T5A.

I go to BA desk to ask them to hold my correct flight, BA in fairness are great. Gate agent told i'm on the way and to hold, I'm told to run like f**k.,

I skip through queuse and As I'm out of breath, approaching gate I reach into pocket for passport and BP and realise I left them at BA desk earlier.......

Get to gate and the lady from BA desk is there smiling at me and holding my passport in the air...

Kudos to the BA staff on this one, but serious kick my own ass for making such a DA mistake.Lets not be so harsh on this lady ..........

JCX BXC

Deagol wrote: »

Kudos to the BA staff on this one, but serious kick my own ass for making such a DA mistake.Lets not be so harsh on this lady ..........

I don't think it's even missing the flight that's the problem here, it's running to the papers and blaming the DAA.

Tenger

bikeman1 wrote: »

What I am failing to see is what is so difficult for people. I wonder how some people find their way home at night!
.........
.........
4. Clear security. Take 30 seconds to note the GATE number of the flight that corresponds to 4 things. Flight number, departure time, destination and airline.

5. Follow signs to gate 123. Any questions, ask a staff member.

Simples.

I would agree with your steps, however the DAA often intereferes with this simple system by not displaying the gate numbers very promptly. So as you go through security you get "wait for gate info" Thus you get sidetracked, EG. you cant just take the punt on the 4xx gates if with EI.
IMHO the systematic problem is that gate info is not shown early enough.

Rock of Gibraltar

Deagol wrote: »

Easily done, I am a very frequent flyer and I was heading from SNN via LHR to CDG recently.

Got to LHR and found lots of delays due to weather, looked at screens in T5 and found CDG / BA flight and headed to T5C. Stood there for 45 mins, wondering why the flight was even later than announced earlier, gate announcment comes on and suddenly I realise the flight number is not what I have on my BP.

Queue the sudden panic to realise BA have two flights to CDG within 35 mins of each other.

Not tooo mad until I find that once you got to T5C in LHR, you must go through immigration to get back to T5A.

I go to BA desk to ask them to hold my correct flight, BA in fairness are great. Gate agent told i'm on the way and to hold, I'm told to run like f**k.,

I skip through queuse and As I'm out of breath, approaching gate I reach into pocket for passport and BP and realise I left them at BA desk earlier.......

Get to gate and the lady from BA desk is there smiling at me and holding my passport in the air...

Kudos to the BA staff on this one, but serious kick my own ass for making such a DA mistake.Lets not be so harsh on this lady ..........

How did you get through immigration without your passport?

I would agree with your steps, however the DAA often intereferes with this simple system by not displaying the gate numbers very promptly. So as you go through security you get "wait for gate info" Thus you get sidetracked, EG. you cant just take the punt on the 4xx gates if with EI.

Yeah I've sometimes wondered about this, why is it that you can only find out your gate in Dublin no more than a couple of hours before your flight but if you're flying in the States you know this days in advance?

For example not so long ago I was connecting in Dulles from an Aer Lingus flight onto a United flight. I got off the plane and had a look around for a gate display, didn't see any so I asked someone, they said 'it's on your boarding card sir' and there is was on the boarding card printed in Dublin. Whereas the space for gate number for the Dublin to Dulles segment was blank.

LXFlyer

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

How did you get through immigration without your passport?




Yeah I've sometimes wondered about this, why is it that you can only find out your gate in Dublin no more than a couple of hours before your flight but if you're flying in the States you know this days in advance?

For example not so long ago I was connecting in Dulles from an Aer Lingus flight onto a United flight. I got off the plane and had a look around for a gate display, didn't see any so I asked someone, they said 'it's on your boarding card sir' and there is was on the boarding card printed in Dublin. Whereas the space for gate number for the Dublin to Dulles segment was blank.

Same strategy as is employed at most U.K. airports.

The airport operators want you to spend time and money in their food and retail outlets - that's one of their main income streams!

lord lucan

lxflyer wrote: »

Same strategy as is employed at most U.K. airports.

The airport operators want you to spend time and money in their food and retail outlets - that's one of their main income streams!

And to add to the above, US flights from DUB won't have the gate number on the boarding card, usually just blank or USCBP so as to encourage pax to not hang around and proceed to CBP promptly.

Another reason for gates not being up too early is the possibility that a gate is changed and pax are sitting at the original assigned gate and oblivious to PA calls with a new gate, causes no end of bother for airlines trying to round everyone up.

Gmaximum

I read the story on Monday and laughed as I was flying to Düsseldorf the following morning on an Aer Lingus flight which usually departs from the 300 gates

I use the airport an average of twice a month usually flying to U.K. On Aer lingus or city jet. I know both terminals well and still missed the turn for the 300s and so did the colleague I was flying with. I realised my mistak having just passed it. I don't think there is an issue with signage in general with the exception of the sign at the turn to the 300s. There's a real attack on the senses with the retail displays in that area and it's easy to miss the sign.

I'm embarrassed posting the above however there's no way I'd continue with gate signage suddenly disappearing further on through the terminal

Locker10a

Gmaximum wrote: »

I read the story on Monday and laughed as I was flying to Düsseldorf the following morning on an Aer Lingus flight which usually departs from the 300 gates

I use the airport an average of twice a month usually flying to U.K. On Aer lingus or city jet. I know both terminals well and still missed the turn for the 300s and so did the colleague I was flying with. I realised my mistak having just passed it. I don't think there is an issue with signage in general with the exception of the sign at the turn to the 300s. There's a real attack on the senses with the retail displays in that area and it's easy to miss the sign.

I'm embarrassed posting the above however there's no way I'd continue with gate signage suddenly disappearing further on through the terminal

I must admit I too am frequent flyer and very familiar with how airports and airlines operate in general, however just after Xmas i was travelling to the UK,  to Gatwick with Ryanair, the flight was approx 2 hours delayed. So I made myself comfortable in Starbucks. Using flight radar I was tracking my aircraft which was stuck in Gatwick, I watched it take off from gatwick and the new arrival time coincided with the new estimated departure. I relaxed and thought id have at least another 45 mins before boarding commenced. Just by chance I glanced at the departures board to see that my flight said Boarding! I was confused, the aircraft wasn't even here yet, I thought it was typical Ryanair advertising premature boarding, but all the same I made my way to the gate. 
I was the last person to board the flight and came close to missing it, they had called a crew from Standby and subbed in a standby aircraft at the last minute. 
Moral of the story, make NO assumptions, and always check and double check the airport monitors. I thought I was very smart following Flightradar etc. and my assumptions almost cost me my flight.

Tenger

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

.......
Yeah I've sometimes wondered about this, why is it that you can only find out your gate in Dublin no more than a couple of hours before your flight but if you're flying in the States you know this days in advance?

For example not so long ago I was connecting in Dulles from an Aer Lingus flight onto a United flight. I got off the plane and had a look around for a gate display, didn't see any so I asked someone, they said 'it's on your boarding card sir' and there is was on the boarding card printed in Dublin. Whereas the space for gate number for the Dublin to Dulles segment was blank.

Airline business is quite different in some ways from Europe to USA.
In the US the airlines lease/own the gates at the airport. Thus they control the gate/stand allocation. Each flight will utilise the same gate each day (barring disruption)
In Ireland it is the airport operator who allocate the gate to the arriving flights.

Deagol

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

How did you get through immigration without your passport?

The BA desk was between immigration and the terminal 5A gate I think? I was at the transit desk, then there was panic, then I was told to run and I did Can't remember much more than that and then realising my passport wasn't in my jacket pocket