Starting from scratch...

jimmytootimes

Hi all,
I've decided to get into woodwork. I loved it in school but in the last 10 years I've never done anything even related. The last few weeks I've been buying bits and pieces and built myself a good workbench in my shed. I'm looking for advice on tools that are essential, books, magazines and/or online resources to follow, advice on power tool brand etc... and any other advice you think I need. In terms of power tools space is limited so now table saws or band saws etc... Below is an idea of the tools I have already
Hand tools;
Tenon saw, chisel set, coping saw, tape, screw drivers, marking gauge, sliding bevel, tri square

Power tools;
Drill including a huge bit set
Plunge Router
I've my eye on a good circular saw will probably buy soon.

Cheers folks

the_pen_turner

what do you want to make

woodturner

Plenty of resources online. Money spent on books or mags would be better spent on tools or materials.

timfromtang

Greetings,
Have you a vice on your new workbench? I'd suggest a no4 or no5 record or stanley bench plane and a smaller block plane, secondhand is best for these, they will need fettling but Paul Sellers gives good instructions for this.
Handsaws,
I've recently gone back to using the old fashioned kind you sharpen yourself with a file, and i think i will never buy a modern hardpoint saw again, sharpening is easy and satisfying, and it's lovely to use a sharp saw. Secondhand tenon and panel saws are often available for really cheap at markets, and are simple enough to restore and get working. a saw file costs a fiver and will sharpen your saws up to 100 times before needing replacement. You will need to make a saw vice to hold saws whilst sharpening, but a couple of 2x1's or such and a couple of clamps will suffice to get started.
I spent 50 euro at clara market one day in 2015, and got 8 restorable saws, 4 tenon saws different sizes and 4 larger panel saws, coarse and fine teeth, rip and cross cut sharpening and i got a full set. a number of hours sharpening and derusting etc, satisfaction ensued. these antique tools feel really good in the hand.

I'd not be a fan of power tools too much, I prefer the Neanderthal way,

ripping a 6" x 1' wide plank into two 6" x 15/32" with a hand sharpened antique saw really satisfies me, hard work and makes you puffed, but then you get the reward, a nice rush of endorphins from the exercise and a nice view of revealed beautiful grain. a few minutes with a hand plane and you have a bookmatched pair of fine planks.

tim

jimmytootimes

the_pen_turner wrote: »

what do you want to make

I'm going to start off with a dog house and a planter for the garden becoause I need them and there isn't a huge amount of skill needed and then practice joinery on off cuts. Once I get more advanced I'd like to make furniture for interior use....

magicbastarder

what plans did you use for the bench?

jimmytootimes

timfromtang wrote: »

Greetings,
Have you a vice on your new workbench?
tim

Sorry I should have mentioned that in my original post. Would any vice do? Or should I look for a particular one? I left an overhang on the bench for a vice. Also what type of clamps would you start with?

Thanks

the_pen_turner

jimmytootimes wrote: »

I'm going to start off with a dog house and a planter for the garden becoause I need them and there isn't a huge amount of skill needed and then practice joinery on off cuts. Once I get more advanced I'd like to make furniture for interior use....

Do you want to go old school or power tools.

I would get a chop saw, jig saw, cordless drill, small table saw or band saw.

recipio

A mitre saw is a good start. Put in a 12 mm fence and a zero clearance baseplate and you can crosscut small pieces much more safely.
Buy once and buy right ! Cheap tools are disposable - good tools are for life.
You will soon want a tablesaw and planer thicknesser then you're really addicted !.

timfromtang

howdy Jimmy,
for a vice, I'd recommend a record woodworking vice, again i'd suggest finding a secondhand one is best, check the condition of the quick release and brass nut before buying, done deal, adverts,ie, ebay, or a flea market, there is a man who goes to clara market in offaly who often has them. Line the jaws with wood and a piece of scrap leather after fitting.
Although you can hold your work pretty well with just some good solid chunks of wood firmly fixed down and a couple of wedges, cramps and clamps too, if you know a blacksmith a holdfast is a wonderful tool, simple, secure flexible and quick workholding, and an ancient technique to boot.

I'd also add that time spent sharpening, and perfecting your sharpening technique, will be well spent, accurate joinery is not difficult with sharp crisp tool that cut straight.

I will not advise on whether to go with oilstones, waterstones, diamond stones or sandpaper (google scarysharp), each has their proponents, it's results that YOU achieve with your chosen method that counts, sharp is SWEET. makes tools a pleasure to use.

tim

Vivat Fraxinus

jimmytootimes

Thanks for the advice all very helpful...
With regard to going old school or power tools I don't want to pick just one. This will be a hobby. If there's something I need I'd like just go out and make it quite quickly so that's where the power tools come in I suppose. But in between I'd like to be just playing around with bits and pieces working on something on and off with the hand tools. . .

mobfromcork

There's another guy in the Sunday Carboot Sale in Callan, just south of Kilkenny who often has good old vices, Record etc if you're around that area and looking for workbench equipment.

Sparks

Honestly, just pick the first project and buy the tools you need for that as you go.

And you don't need a vice, it's just useful. Buy two holdfasts and drill some holes in the workbench for them and some bench dogs and you'll be able to do all the workholding you need:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhn-PAfEW4

That said, I love my record 53A but I would never buy a new one (because Record, Stanley and every other hand tool manufacturer went right down the tubes for quality after WW2 when the woodworking industry switched to machinery). Go on ebay, set up a search for a record vice and wait for one at a decent price. If it weighs less than 20kg, use addresspal and ship it for 3.50 from the UK to here (if more than 20kg, which would be a record 53 series, you'll have to ship it yourself with parcel2go or someone). The 52 is a little small but usable especially as an end vice, the 52½ is the most popular and is perfect, the 53 is enormous and lovely.

Or you could buy the hardware and make a leg vice, depending on your workbench.

And you don't have to wait for any of those for something as simple as a doghouse.



(ps. none of that would apply if you were doing this as a profession; but for those of us that do this to unwind in the evening or over a weekend, we can get away with things professionals wouldn't be able to do and stay in business)

raspberrypi67

jimmytootimes wrote: »

Hi all,
I've decided to get into woodwork. I loved it in school but in the last 10 years I've never done anything even related. The last few weeks I've been buying bits and pieces and built myself a good workbench in my shed. I'm looking for advice on tools that are essential, books, magazines and/or online resources to follow, advice on power tool brand etc... and any other advice you think I need. In terms of power tools space is limited so now table saws or band saws etc... Below is an idea of the tools I have already
Hand tools;
Tenon saw, chisel set, coping saw, tape, screw drivers, marking gauge, sliding bevel, tri square

Power tools;
Drill including a huge bit set
Plunge Router
I've my eye on a good circular saw will probably buy soon.

Cheers folks

Well, it's great that you're getting into it as it's a great hobby, I'm at it 20 years, used to build model boats! The tools you have looking good already. The thing with wood work is that nearly every project you do as a new comer nearly always requires some new tool, until you've got them all!! Lol. But the way I started was a table saw. I then got a bandsaw. Again, these choices were governed by necessity of the piece. A good plane is a must, if not 2. Belt sander saves a LOT of time.
All space and money dependant too.
But go by the project you are doing, complete that with what you have, if you can.... Enjoy

recipio

jimmytootimes wrote: »

I'm going to start off with a dog house and a planter for the garden becoause I need them and there isn't a huge amount of skill needed and then practice joinery on off cuts. Once I get more advanced I'd like to make furniture for interior use....

Agree with Sparks, just buy the wood wisely and go from there. Eventually I'd look for a planer thicknesser - it is the most liberating tool and lets you manipulate dimensions and process hardwoods.

jimmytootimes

On the planer thicknesser... does anybody have any experience with the bench top ones? They look poor but I've no space for anything stand alone at the moment

the_pen_turner

jimmytootimes wrote: »

On the planer thicknesser... does anybody have any experience with the bench top ones? They look poor but I've no space for anything stand alone at the moment

I have the dewalt .
It's a great tool. I mostly use it on site. I have proper planer at home too

timfromtang

jimmytootimes wrote: »

On the planer thicknesser... does anybody have any experience with the bench top ones? They look poor but I've no space for anything stand alone at the moment

Howdy Jimmy,
I know i was advocating a hand tool approach earlier in this thread, however I am guilty of hypocrisy here as i also use power tools where necessary, a chainsaw is my favourite, I use one for sawmilling and for rough joinery.

However on the thickness planer, I have a dewalt DW744 or 733 not sure as the label is worn off. Its a site/tabletop 12" one, I have owned it and used it hard since 1996 ish, It has never let me down, although i have replaced a belt or two. It's been left out in the rain, once got neglected by a lad i lent it to (lesson learned) and i had to polish the posts with sandpaper and unseize it before using it. Tis a great yoke, and very useful, I've planed everything from 9x3" (had to use a hand plane for the 3" faces) down to 6mm thick ash boards for making bodhráns with it. Its easy to make a jig with a few saw cuts in a block of wood at the correct angle for sharpening the blades. I have two sets, and rotate them as necessary. Although I'd love a great big 24" wadkin or suchlike, I've always managed thus far with the little dewalt. It is a bit tillywilly for taking big cuts on wide hardwood boards, but go easy and it will do a lovely job.

tim

Fuisneóg Abú

recipio

jimmytootimes wrote: »

On the planer thicknesser... does anybody have any experience with the bench top ones? They look poor but I've no space for anything stand alone at the moment

Never used one but remember you have to flatten the board before thicknessing it so a planer thicknesser is much more useful. I would recommend a second hand Scheppach HMS 260 which has rubber rollers and leaves a great finish.

rich.d.berry

jimmytootimes wrote: »

Sorry I should have mentioned that in my original post. Would any vice do? Or should I look for a particular one? I left an overhang on the bench for a vice. Also what type of clamps would you start with?

Thanks

Regarding your question about clamps, sadly, you can never have enough clamps.

Though, I learned the hard way to avoid the trigger style F clamps. The trigger ones have a tendency to fail as they're only made of plastic. Steer well clear!

Go with the screw type:
The screw type are able to exert better, and more consistent, pressure than the trigger ones. I found the Aldi screw clamps to be very good for very little money. I bought 3 sets of 3 about 4 years ago and I use them all the time with wooden blocks to spread the pressure more evenly and to avoid marking my project.

Get the longest ones you can find, I think that the longer Aldi ones are 600mm long. The long ones can be used on narrow glue ups but the short ones cannot stretch if you need them for something wider.

For really wide stuff, like table tops, you'll need sash clamps, body clamps, pipe clamps or clamp heads:

Sash clamps can be quite pricey, around €50 for 1.5m length. They work very well. I got a loan of a set of them for a projest so my experience is very limited.

Body clamps are the most expensive at around €100 for 1.5m. I've never used them.

Pipe clamps are quite reasonable. About €12 for 1/2 inch pipe and €15 for 3/4 inch pipe. You need to source your own pipes and have the tapping tools to cut the threads on the ends. Because you supply the pipe you can use any length you like. You can even have varying lengths of pipe and just attach the hardware as needed. I've never used them myself but they appear to be the most common amongst YouTube woodworkers.

I personally went with the clamp heads for 1 x 2 wooden boards. They set me back about €120 for 6 sets, including delivery and two 4.5m lengths of construction grade white deal 1 x 2s. It took me about an hour to cut them to length and drill the holes and I have been using these 1.5m clamps regularly for the last 3 years. They work very well with very little bowing and I always get tight, seamless glue lines when I use them.

Drawbacks: I replaced the supplied nuts with wing nuts to make them easier to adjust. I have an additional ongoing cost of wax paper and masking tape to prevent my projects from being glued to the clamps by squeeze out.

PS Keep your eye open for woodworking tools from Lidl and Aldi especially in the lead up to Father's Day. The Aldi chisel sets are brilliant for the money and the Lidl mitre saw, lathe and cordless drill have served me well for years. They're not professional quality but they work reasonably well for the hobbyist.

jimmytootimes

Thanks Rich, great advice. There's a mitre saw in Lidl at the moment for €65. It's not the most urgent tool I need but I thought it would be too good to pass if the quality was anyway acceptable... Do you have one yea?

PS thanks for all the replies. I'm not the best for replying myself but anytime I'm out looking at tools I'm referring to this thread all the time....

rich.d.berry

I can't see the mitre saw you refer to on the Lidl offers page for Thursday 16th. I seem to recall that mine cost around €100 and is able to slide for cutting wider boards. I'll post up a photo of it when I get home.

Sparks

rich.d.berry wrote: »

The screw type are able to exert better, and more consistent, pressure than the trigger ones.

The trigger ones conversely are handy for one-handed-because-the-other-hand-is-holding-six-things-in-place clamping. And if you get the Irwin quick-grip xtreme ones (while holding your nose about the stupid name), they're miles apart from the usual cheapo trigger ones.

Get the longest ones you can find, I think that the longer Aldi ones are 600mm long. The long ones can be used on narrow glue ups but the short ones cannot stretch if you need them for something wider.

But remember that the longest ones are a total pain in the fundament to store and to manoeuvre in smaller workshops.

Sash clamps can be quite pricey, around €50 for 1.5m length. They work very well. I got a loan of a set of them for a projest so my experience is very limited.

Or you can buy the cheap versions for around €45 for four (in 900mm length) and then do the modifications to them described by Paul Sellars which seriously improve them for nothing much at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyKiGmRq3wY

Also, I found that for the really huge ones I needed for the bench, ebay was the way to go, and for those
ones I got the T-bar variety.

Also, don't forget that if you need slightly longer clamps, you can just extend the ones you have by taking off a head from the T-bar variety and bolting two together.

The smaller G-type ones from record are useful as well, in the 2->6 inch range and come up on ebay for reasonable money (I tend to use them more for holding work on the bench as I work on it rather than during glue-ups). And it's handy to have at least one of the picture frame variety that look like a length of tie-down strap with a funny handle. You can get those for a pittance off aliexpress.com if you're okay with waiting a month for free delivery.

PS Keep your eye open for woodworking tools from Lidl and Aldi especially in the lead up to Father's Day. The Aldi chisel sets are brilliant for the money and the Lidl mitre saw, lathe and cordless drill have served me well for years. They're not professional quality but they work reasonably well for the hobbyist.

Spot on. The lidl chisel set is identical to the aldi one by the way, and Paul Sellers has a video showing how to prep them. They aren't the best I've ever seen for that kind of price though, the ones you can find on ebay are better for less money. It may take a while of looking to find what you want though. Anything made by footprint tends to be good, same goes for marples; and anything with the name sorby or ward on it is almost always brilliant.
I have a few wards and sorbys and marples for bevel-edged and firmer type chisels (firmers have a rectangular cross-section and are good for light to medium morticing work and can stand in for pretty much everything other than dovetailing); and there's a set of three footprint chisels that turns up for a fiver every so often that's completely worth twice that money. You'll want to search on ebay.co.uk and limit the search to Used and to UK only and they show up in Collectibles/Tools&Hardware/Tools. And the older the better in general - anything from before the 70s is probably going to be better; anything before WW2 is probably going to be very solid as a tool (the hand tool industry as a whole kindof died on its feet after WW2, or at least changed shape so dramatically as to stop being what it had been beforehand). If you're patient and avoid bidding wars using snipers like gixen or the like, you can pick up a full set of chisels for 10-20 euro that would normally need 100 euro plus to beat in quality (as opposed to beating in shiny marketing and fancier wood handles).

But be warned that if you're not careful you can wind up bargain hunting as a pastime and it's a small stumble from there to collecting planes and tools

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki8tt-VjwqI

Not *everything* from Lidl and Aldi is great, but the ones that aren't tend to be the exception rather than the rule (skip the pillar drill for example). Usually the tools you buy there tend to be basic but solid, and you'd have to add another digit to the bill to get the next tier up in quality; and for amateur woodworking it wouldn't really be worth it anyway.

rich.d.berry

rich.d.berry wrote: »

I can't see the mitre saw you refer to on the Lidl offers page for Thursday 16th. I seem to recall that mine cost around €100 and is able to slide for cutting wider boards. I'll post up a photo of it when I get home.

Here is the Lidl mitre saw.

MickeyShtyles

rich.d.berry wrote: »

Here is the Lidl mitre saw.

The lidl and aldi mitre saws are rebranded Scheppach.
Got one here.