Political Correctness - Does it exist?

Omackeral

Any thread I see on here to do with welfare, ethnic minorities or really anything usually ends up with the phrase "PC gone mad" and is then followed up with the rebuttal of "Political Correctness doesn't exist (by one poster in particular but I wanna see if others agree). I simply wanna know if it does or not. Can you provide examples if you're in the camp that says it does and can you give a reason why you think it doesn't if you're that way inclined.

Poll added.

I'd like to hear the argument of political correctness not existing

Shenshen

That's a bit like asking "does politeness exist?", isn't it? Some people are polite, some people are d*cks.

Same with PC - some people think it's rude to call black people n*ggers and travellers scum, others will scream and shout that PC has gone mad and why can't they call people whatever they like?

pilly

Shenshen wrote: »

That's a bit like asking "does politeness exist?", isn't it? Some people are polite, some people are d*cks.

Same with PC - some people think it's rude to call black people n*ggers and travellers scum, others will cream and shout that PC has gone mad and why can't they call people whatever they like?

I think what OP is saying (correct me if I'm wrong Mackeral) is about the concept of PC gone mad. Has it gone too far the other way?

An example I would give is when I say someone is black my kids are horrified and I think that's going to far. It's like saying that someone can't call me white! I am white and have no problem being called so and any black person I know has no problem being called black so long as it's not followed by another word like bastard.

And before people start jumping on me, when I'm calling someone black I'm describing them not insulting them.

Shenshen

pilly wrote: »

I think what OP is saying (correct me if I'm wrong Mackeral) is about the concept of PC gone mad. Has it gone too far the other way?

An example I would give is when I say someone is black my kids are horrified and I think that's going to far. It's like saying that someone can't call me white! I am white and have no problem being called so and any black person I know has no problem being called black so long as it's not followed by another word like bastard.

And before people start jumping on me, when I'm calling someone black I'm describing them not insulting them.

I don't know if the concept itself has gone mad - but as with everything, some people can take it too far.
But usually when someone shouts that PC has gone mad, it's because he or she have just been told of for being a pr*ck to someone else.

Omackeral

I think it's more than rude to call black people the N word to be fair! I dunno, I suppose saying things like Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas. Is that an example of PC (so as not to offend non Christians) or is it an Americanism? Maybe it's just all inclusive but is that in and of itself an example of political correctness? That's what I'm looking for I suppose. Examples of it and then those examples to be challenged by people on the other side of the debate, of there is one to be had.

pilly

Shenshen wrote: »

I don't know if the concept itself has gone mad - but as with everything, some people can take it too far.
But usually when someone shouts that PC has gone mad, it's because he or she have just been told of for being a pr*ck to someone else.

That's why I gave you an example. I'm not being a prick to anyone and yet getting called out on it.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I think being able to retroactively change the gender marked on your birth certificate is a prime example of political correctness. It goes against what a doctor correctly determined at that time should be stated on the birth certificate, it goes against the type of genitalia that were observed at that time, and fails to take into account all the surgery and drugs that were required to change the gender in the intervening time.

Having said that, there has/is and will be, far too much hate in this world so I personally think live and let live with almost anything, so this isn't an issue that annoys me in anyway, I just think it is a really good example of PC gone mad. Ultimately the birth certificate thing has zero grounding in reality, science, biology or anything other than political correctness.

Omackeral

Pilly, calling someone black isn't an insult. When people say "I don't mean to racist but he's black". That's just silly. Black is not a bad word!


What I'm trying to see is examples of PC existing but for those who say it doesn't to explain how you think it doesn't.

Shenshen

Omackeral wrote: »

I think it's more than rude to call black people the N word to be fair! I dunno, I suppose saying things like Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas. Is that an example of PC (so as not to offend non Christians) or is it an Americanism? Maybe it's just all inclusive but is that in and of itself an example of political correctness? That's what I'm looking for I suppose. Examples of it and then those examples to be challenged by people on the other side of the debate, of there is one to be had.

I don't know... I suspect the "Happy Holidays" is definitely more prevalent in the US and North America. I know I started saying it myself when working in a customer-facing job in Montreal, after the 3rd person told me that it was nice of me to wish them that, but they'd be celebrating Hanukkah instead. Just makes life a bit easier in societies where you just can't pre-assume everybody will be doing something similar.

lazybones32

You'll need to give a description of what the standard for 'PC' is, or at least a definition. Some think being PC is being polite; others have a different definition. Kind of like feminism, everyone has a different interpretation of what it is and doesn't fully subscribe to another persons definition.

Samuel T. Cogley

There's a marked difference between political correctness and ones own views. Not everyone thinks the same thing, Thank God.

There's also a difference between political correctness gone mad and know where you are. I frequently run into problems at work but that's just me. I realise that some of my choice phrases might not be to everyone's taste. That said unless if it straying in to bullying you can absolutely feck off if you think I'm going to hold myself back in the pub.

Shenshen

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I think being able to retroactively change the gender marked on your birth certificate is a prime example of political correctness. It goes against what a doctor correctly determined at that time should be stated on the birth certificate, it goes against the type of genitalia that were observed at that time, and fails to take into account all the surgery and drugs that were required to change the gender in the intervening time.

Having said that, there has/is and will be, far too much hate in this world so I personally think live and let live with almost anything, so this isn't an issue that annoys me in anyway, I just think it is a really good example of PC gone mad. Ultimately the birth certificate thing has zero grounding in reality, science, biology or anything other than political correctness.

I think there's a massive can of worms there - the doctor doesn't always get it right might be the simplest way to answer this. In the majority of cases, the genitalia are quite clearly formed, but there are enough cases where this isn't the case and the doctor basically guesses.
Previously, this was then followed up with surgery to make the genitalia more typical of whatever sex the doctor had picked. And significant number of people then had to go through more surgery and red tape, simply because the good doctor had guessed wrong.

So I don't think there's much politically correct about changing gender on a birth cert, if it helps people over that trauma a little better.

And then there's the cases where the biological sex simply doesn't match the gender.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Shenshen wrote: »

I don't know if the concept itself has gone mad - but as with everything, some people can take it too far.
But usually when someone shouts that PC has gone mad, it's because he or she have just been told of for being a pr*ck to someone else.

Use a different word.

Words like "prick" or "dick" are misandristic.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Pilly, calling someone black isn't an insult. When people say "I don't mean to racist but he's black". That's just silly. Black is not a bad word!


What I'm trying to see is examples of PC existing but for those who say it doesn't to explain how you think it doesn't.

I think Pillys example is perfect. As another poster said, some people take it far too far and I have heard people suggesting that referring to someones blackness is a sign of racism. :rolleyes:

I even endured workplace awareness training a few years back which said we shouldnt refer to female colleagues as 'girls' or to any black colleagues as being black. I think I rolled my eyes so much during that training I got eye strain.

pilly

Omackeral wrote: »

Pilly, calling someone black isn't an insult. When people say "I don't mean to racist but he's black". That's just silly. Black is not a bad word!


What I'm trying to see is examples of PC existing but for those who say it doesn't to explain how you think it doesn't.

Exactly my point. Don't know why you're calling me silly. My point was it's not a bad word at all but people perceive it as such now because they're afraid to point out that others are different colours.

Noddyholder

pilly wrote: »

I think what OP is saying (correct me if I'm wrong Mackerel is about the concept of PC gone mad. Has it gone too far the other way?

An example I would give is when I say someone is black my kids are horrified and I think that's going to far. It's like saying that someone can't call me white! I am white and have no problem being called so and any black person I know has no problem being called black so long as it's not followed by another word like bastard.

And before people start jumping on me, when I'm calling someone black I'm describing them not insulting them.

The Op name is Omackerel

The Backwards Man

Some people are assholes.

pilly

Noddyholder wrote: »

The Op name is Omackerel

Jesus I left out an O, is that fishist? :D

pilly

pilly wrote: »

Jesus I left out an O, is that fishist? :D

Its a slight against anyone with 'O' in their name.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Shenshen wrote: »

I think there's a massive can of worms there - the doctor doesn't always get it right might be the simplest way to answer this. In the majority of cases, the genitalia are quite clearly formed, but there are enough cases where this isn't the case and the doctor basically guesses.
Previously, this was then followed up with surgery to make the genitalia more typical of whatever sex the doctor had picked. And significant number of people then had to go through more surgery and red tape, simply because the good doctor had guessed wrong.

So I don't think there's much politically correct about changing gender on a birth cert, if it helps people over that trauma a little better.

And then there's the cases where the biological sex simply doesn't match the gender.

These are the cases I was referencing in my post.

Lt Dan

This

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcWu0tsiZM&t=300s

and this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM-HJT8_esM

Yourself isit

Political correctness isn't politeness. Telling someone to shut up because they are mansplaining is a lot of things, but it isn't polite.

Shenshen

Yourself isit wrote: »

Political correctness isn't politeness. Telling someone to shut up because they are mansplaining is a lot of things, but it isn't polite.

Walking over to a group of girls playing cards in a pub and starting to explain the rules to them, proceeding to take the cards away from one of them with the words "Nah, love, you need to do that different altogether" is many things, but it's not polite either.

And just for the record, we entertained the numpty, I played against him and won 4 games in a row.

I dislike people being impolite, I would never tell anyone to shut up. However, I also won't tolerate being talked down to because of my gender.

Noddyholder

PROVO — Kia unveiled an experimental prototype this week for the International Geneva Motor show: The Provo. Its name is causing some controversy, but it has nothing to do with the Utah city of the same name...

Volvic water also caused upset by naming a drink, orange & proud...

Both over the top reactions & exaples of political correctness gone mad.IMO.

andekwarhola

Apparently so. And it's generally 'gone mad' as far as I'm aware.

Yourself isit

Shenshen wrote: »

Walking over to a group of girls playing cards in a pub and starting to explain the rules to them, proceeding to take the cards away from one of them with the words "Nah, love, you need to do that different altogether" is many things, but it's not polite either.

And just for the record, we entertained the numpty, I played against him and won 4 games in a row.

I dislike people being impolite, I would never tell anyone to shut up. However, I also won't tolerate being talked down to because of my gender.

Sure but that was bullying. I've seen mansplaining used for people who happened to be male explaining something.

Roger_007

We have always had political correctness. What I mean by that is it has always been the case that certain views and attitudes were deemed acceptable and other views deemed unacceptable in any given era.
You do not have to be too old to have grown up in an Ireland where no criticism of the Catholic Church would ever be aired in the media. You would never hear any public figure seeming to tolerate women becoming pregnant outside marriage. You would never hear anyone in authority or in the media supporting gay rights. That was the political correctness of its time. Anyone who expressed different views was ostracised.
The only difference now is that what is deemed acceptable and politically correct is almost the polar opposite of what I grew up with. Who's to say that in the future the whole thing won't be turned on it's head again.?

Context and common sense are the key things , which some SJW's /3rd wave feminists /other easily outraged groups seem lack before jumping down the neck of a persons opinion

__Alex__

Omackeral wrote: »

usually ends up with the phrase "PC gone mad" and is then followed up with the rebuttal of "Political Correctness doesn't exist (by one poster in particular but I wanna see if others agree).

I've rarely if ever seen that kind of rebuttal.

jackofalltrades

It exists.
The only person I've ever heard denying it's existence is a poster on this website.
It looks like they haven't made their case yet.

__Alex__

pilly wrote: »

That's why I gave you an example. I'm not being a prick to anyone and yet getting called out on it.

I think you are taking her up wrong. She's saying that some people wheel out 'PC gone mad!' when somebody points out to them that they are being completely odious.

osarusan

Yes, it exists, where people are keen to take offence on behalf of others, and sanitise language to excess(what I consider an excess at least, others may have a different standard, which is what makes it difficult to define).

But, on boards as elsewhere, the number of people moaning about 'PC gone mad' is much much higher than the number of people they are complaining about.

It's another lazy label to throw on anything and anybody you disagree with, like feminist or misogynist.

Your Face

I like big butts.

Yamanoto

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Caitlin Jenner is a male to female transgender person. She uses the pronoun which reflects her gender identity. It isn't complicated and it doesn't affect you. What would you prefer it said?

I'd prefer if a website purporting to impart objective information left whatever the prevailing ideology may be to one side...and simply delivered facts.

jobbridge4life

Yamanoto wrote: »

I'd prefer if a website purporting to impart objective information left whatever the prevailing ideology may be to one side...and simply delivered facts.

The fact is that Caitlyn Jenner is a trans-woman who goes by the pronoun 'she'. And she competed in the mens triatholan, and won, pre-transition. These are the facts.

joe40

This sums it for me perfectly

https://youtu.be/99s19HBs-6A

Rjd2

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jennifer-saunders-absolutely-fabulous-political-correctness_uk_58b2b9d0e4b060480e08a7df

the expression "PC gone mad" gets overused, but it does exist, heck Jennifer Saunders last week admitted its a major reason Ab Fab will not be coming back.

Yourself isit

jobbridge4life wrote: »

The fact is that Caitlyn Jenner is a trans-woman who goes by the pronoun 'she'. And she competed in the mens triatholan, and won, pre-transition. These are the facts.

Was she not a transwoman when she competed? Just pre-op

Yamanoto

jobbridge4life wrote: »

The fact is that Caitlyn Jenner is a trans-woman who goes by the pronoun 'she'.And she competed in the mens triatholan, and won, pre-transition. These are the facts.

As a man...named Bruce, which is the way in which that event should be reported.

He competed & the victory was his.

jobbridge4life

Yamanoto wrote: »

As a man...named Bruce, which is the way in which that event should be reported.

He competed & the victory was his.

This isn't in any way obscured on the page. It features a picture of her, as Bruce, during the Olympics. However given that Caitlyn now goes by 'she' it makes sense to me that references to her past life are consistent with that.

Once more though I really do wonder why this issue seems to agitate others so much. No one can be unaware that Caitlyn Jenner is a transgender woman and lived her life as a man with the name Bruce for decades.

Lt Dan

Your Face wrote: »

I like big butts.

Careful, you have to include that you like small butts too. Someone might get left out and feel offended. Don't worry about the lumpy butts, no one likes them

jmayo

jobbridge4life wrote: »

This isn't in any way obscured on the page. It features a picture of her, as Bruce, during the Olympics. However given that Caitlyn now goes by 'she' it makes sense to me that references to her past life are consistent with that.

Once more though I really do wonder why this issue seems to agitate others so much. No one can be unaware that Caitlyn Jenner is a transgender woman and lived her life as a man with the name Bruce for decades.

But this is the type of stuff that a lot of people complain about.

There is no changing history no matter how much you try.

A guy, yes a guy with a mickie and nutsack, called Bruce Jenner competed in the 1976 Olympics decathlon and he won the gold medal.

No amount of semantics changes the fact that he was a guy back then.

If you meet the individual now, it is only respectful to refer to them as a her because that it was they are now.
I would say anyone related to that family is mad eejit though, no matter what fecking sex they are.


I believe you can't change history no matter how much you want to.
Bruce Jenner fathered 3/4 biological kids (don't no watch that lunatic show so now sure how many of the eejits are his).

Now he may be a woman, but that still doesn't make her the childrens' mother no matter how you try and swing it.