New VW Tiguan brake fault?

Benedict

I have a brand new VW Tiguan and have already had trouble with the brakes. The pedal goes soft and then comes right again.
Anyone else had trouble with the new Tiguan brakes?

biko

Moved to main forum

It sounds strange that a brand new car would have such an issue. Did you go back to dealer and ask?

Benedict

Yes, I went back to the dealer - but the brakes seem to have returned to normal. So they think there's no problem.
I'm just wondering if anyone else out there has had the same problem?
What worries me is that the problem could come back while I'm on the motorway.
I've been told that brakes can come right for a while and then get bad again without warning.

If I knew that someone else had the same problem it could help me to find out what's going on.

Benedict

under 1k

Toyotafanboi

What can happen in those is if you have your foot on the foot brake and are applying pressure to it to remain stopped, then you apply the auto handbrake button the brake pedal will soften noticably as the handbrake applies.

Similarly if you are holding your foot on the pedal to remain stopped and you release the auto handbrake you will feel the pedal firming up and pushing back at you.

Is that what you are feeling?

mickdw

Yes my Audi does this when parking brake is applied but you could never interpret it as a fault.

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

Yes my Audi does this when parking brake is applied but you could never interpret it as a fault.

No offence to the OP but it would surprise you what people interpret as a fault.

Benedict

There was also a "hissing" sound when the brake was pressed.

It is interesting though about the "parking brake" - I didn't know this could soften the pedal if it was used in a certain way.

Also no, the pedal did not push back at any stage.

I have heard that the brake "master cylinder" can fail and then be perfect again for a while. Is this true I wonder?

Benedict

Benedict wrote: »

There was also a "hissing" sound when the brake was pressed.

It is interesting though about the "parking brake" - I didn't know this could soften the pedal if it was used in a certain way.

Also no, the pedal did not push back at any stage.

I have heard that the brake "master cylinder" can fail and then be perfect again for a while. Is this true I wonder?

I would have thought a vacuum leak from the master cylinder would make the pedal go hard?

vectra

Benedict wrote: »

There was also a "hissing" sound when the brake was pressed.

It is interesting though about the "parking brake" - I didn't know this could soften the pedal if it was used in a certain way.

Also no, the pedal did not push back at any stage.

I have heard that the brake "master cylinder" can fail and then be perfect again for a while. Is this true I wonder?

Did the hissing sound happen when the handbrake was activating?
The electronic handbrake makes a sound when this happens. Nothing to worry about.
When you say the pedal went soft. Did it go to the floor leaving you with no brakes when driving?
I am surprised the dealer found nothing if there was a fault.

Benedict

No, the hissing came when braking while the car was moving along. When parked, the hissing also came - but it definitely came when the car was being driven so the handbrake wouldn't have been on.

Because of the sponginess and hissing I drove slowly and didn't doing any slamming on of the brakes, but the brakes did bring the car to a stop. But if felt like if I had been going fast or wanted to stop suddenly, the brakes wouldn't have worked. But I didn't do a hard test.
I think the pedal did go all or at least near to the floor when pressed. It didn't go suddenly to the floor. It was as if I was squeezing the air out of it. But it didn't go slowly to the floor either. There was very little resistance - a little, but not much.

Rashers72

Seems unusual. I have a new one and no issues. Lovely car, but I also had the old one, so I am hooked. There's a UK Tiguan forum http://www.tiguanforums.co.uk so you could register and post your question there.

vectra

Rashers72 wrote: »

Seems unusual. I have a new one and no issues. Lovely car, but I also had the old one, so I am hooked. There's a UK Tiguan forum http://www.tiguanforums.co.uk so you could register and post your question there.

Which model and spec have you got now?
Sorry for going off topib.

Benedict

I now think that the foot brake issues may have had something to do with the parking brake. Not sure if that is possible but that is what someone has suggested. Maybe using the electronic parking brake incorrectly has caused the foot brake to act up. Not sure if anyone can throw light on that?
Is it possible that using the electronic parking brake could make the foot brake hiss and be spongy? I mean, is there any way at all that the two things could be linked?

mickdw

Benedict wrote: »

I now think that the foot brake issues may have had something to do with the parking brake. Not sure if that is possible but that is what someone has suggested. Maybe using the electronic parking brake incorrectly has caused the foot brake to act up. Not sure if anyone can throw light on that?

To be honest it's either on or off. It will cause the pedal to move if you have your foot on the brakes when using the parking brake.
IF you come to a stop on hill in traffic holding the car on the foot brake and decide to activate parking brake, pedal will sink a little. I'm assuming you have hill hold also so you shouldn't need to be manually going near the parking brake at all.
The car should basically hold itself on hills in stop start traffic. If you come to park on a hill, parking brake will activate itself once you switch off and of course parking brake self releases when you drive off.

vectra

Benedict wrote: »

I now think that the foot brake issues may have had something to do with the parking brake. Not sure if that is possible but that is what someone has suggested. Maybe using the electronic parking brake incorrectly has caused the foot brake to act up. Not sure if anyone can throw light on that?

Just put the handbrake on auto.
You never again have to touch it.
When you pull up and turn off the engine it activates.
When you stop on a hill it acts as hill hold
when you go to move off it de-activates, be it on a hill or normal pulling away type driving.

This is how I have been using mine in my Passat with a year and a half.

Benedict

Good advice - but can misuse of the parking brake or auto brake cause a spongy brake pedal and a hissing noise from the brake pedal?

Are the two systems connected in some way?

vectra

Benedict wrote: »

Good advice - but can misuse of the parking brake or auto brake cause a spongy brake pedal and a hissing noise from the brake pedal?

Are the two systems connected in some way?

Sorry,
Can't answer that one for you as I never had any issues withmine.

Hal1

Regardless of trying to replicate the fault when you brought her back in to the dealers. The fact of the matter is it happened. I wouldn't be waiting for a brake fault to rear it's head again, especially at a time when you need to brake in a hurry.

The other thing to consider with a new model is what type of fault is it? electronic, hydraulic or a design / manufacturing flaw. Meaning when enough people encounter the same fault in time, will that model be issued with a recall. I wouldn't want to be the ginneypig to discover that it was a flaw somewhere along the production line.

vectra

Hal1 wrote: »

Regardless of trying to replicate the fault when you brought her back in to the dealers. The fact of the matter is it happened. I wouldn't be waiting for a brake fault to rear it's head again, especially at a time when you need to brake in a hurry.

The other thing to consider with a new model is what type of fault is it? electronic, hydraulic or a design / manufacturing flaw. Meaning when enough people encounter the same fault in time, will that model be issued with a recall. I wouldn't want to be the ginneypig to discover that it was a flaw somewhere along the production line.

I had an issue with a car that I could not replicate in the dealers whenever I brought it back
It always happened when I was away from them. It was a serious enough issue. The car was 2 days old when it happened first. I tried all sorts to get it resolved, I was told that until the dealer could replicate the fault there was nothing they could do about it.

Benedict

Yes, the big worry would be that it would happen again. The dealer could not make it happen again and the computer in the car did not record any fault. There is a theory that the EPB was being mis-used in some way and this made the foot brake act up. But I have not been able for find out if this could possibly happen.

JoyPad

Benedict wrote: »

Good advice - but can misuse of the parking brake or auto brake cause a spongy brake pedal and a hissing noise from the brake pedal?

Are the two systems connected in some way?

I'm not sure I understand in what circumstances you've experienced the issue, but I will assume it's when the car was stopped, and not while driving. Still, you haven't said if you have the manual or automatic, and whether you have perused the handbrake button or not.

Tiguans have always had a feature called Auto Hold, which is somewhat different from the Hill Start function that other VWs have. As soon as the car is brought to a stop using the foot brake, you can release the pedal and not need to do anything, and the car should keep its position, even on steep hills. Auto Hold uses the braking systems (ABS/ESP) to maintain the car stopped. If you remain in the same position for more than one minute, the car will automatically engage the electronic parking brake, at which point you will see the (P) light in the dash and the car may shift position if you're on a steep incline.

I've never heard the hissing noise you mentioned, but I always drive with loud music

More information on Auto Hold here.

Benedict

There are two issues here really. I now think that the hissing is okay. (It can happen either when driving or when parked -anytime the engine is on) It was explained to me that it is because of some sort of vacuum which keeps emptying and filling up again. Apparently it is located behind the brake pedal. I tried another new version of the Tig and the same thing happened. Also, this vacuum apparently makes the pedal sometime push down easier than other times. Both Tigs were the same so I reckon it must be okay. (If I hadn't tried the second Tig I don't think I would have believed that the hissing and the changing feel of the pedal were okay)

The second issue, the auto-hold and EPB are separate on the new Tig. It seems that if you are just driving around and you have the "auto-hold" on, you don't need to be applying the EPB each time you stop - eg at traffic lights. But if you are parking up and will be leaving the car, you should engage the EPB. On page 236 of the owner's manual (my gearbox is manual by the way) it says (quote) "always switch on the EPB when the vehicle is parked". (The also tell you to leave it in gear).

I gather some folk think that it is okay to just park and leave the car and the Auto-hold will hold the car. Not so! On p238 of the Owner's Manual it warns that for the Auto-hold to engage and keep the vehicle stationary you must have the driver's door closed and the engine running. So if you are leaving the car, auto-hold just isn't enough. So it seems that the EPB MUST be on before you leave the car.

mickdw

Benedict wrote: »

There are two issues here really. I now think that the hissing is okay. (It can happen either when driving or when parked -anytime the engine is on) It was explained to me that it is because of some sort of vacuum which keeps emptying and filling up again. Apparently it is located behind the brake pedal. I tried another new version of the Tig and the same thing happened. Also, this vacuum apparently makes the pedal sometime push down easier than other times. Both Tigs were the same so I reckon it must be okay. (If I hadn't tried the second Tig I don't think I would have believed that the hissing and the changing feel of the pedal were okay)

The second issue, the auto-hold and EPB are separate on the new Tig. It seems that if you are just driving around and you have the "auto-hold" on, you don't need to be applying the EPB each time you stop - eg at traffic lights. But if you are parking up and will be leaving the car, you should engage the EPB. On page 236 of the owner's manual (my gearbox is manual by the way) it says (quote) "always switch on the EPB when the vehicle is parked". (The also tell you to leave it in gear).

I gather some folk think that it is okay to just park and leave the car and the Auto-hold will hold the car. Not so! On p238 of the Owner's Manual it warns that for the Auto-hold to engage and keep the vehicle stationary you must have the driver's door closed and the engine running. So if you are leaving the car, auto-hold just isn't enough. So it seems that the EPB MUST be on before you leave the car.

Yes hillhold is a hillstart function not a parking brake. What you are misunderstanding is that the car will automatically apply the parking brake when you switch off the car - well at least it does this is all recent vw I've seen.
So while you are correct that parking brake is required when parking, you shouldn't need to actually do it yourself as the car will do it. The one time that this may not be true is if you jump out of the car while it's started. It might be wise to pull the packing brake switch in that case.
In practice, the function of the parking brake can be identified by the sound of the motors in the rear calipers. When you hear those motors running at the rear, parking brake is either going off or on. Hill hold on the other hand just use the brake system hydraulics and is therefore silent.
In summary, when you switch off car, if you hear the rear motors grinding, parking brake has applied itself. This is full parking brake, not Hill hold and will likely show the red parking brake light in dash. Hill hold will typically show a green foot on brake light.

JoyPad

The EPB will engage automatically when you switch off the engine, you can see the (P) lamp in the dash, and hear the sound mickdw mentioned above.
It will also automatically engage if you've been on AutoHold for a while (about a minute). You can't leave the car on AutoHold.

In fact, the only times you need to touch the EPB button are exceptional situations. For example, if you must drive off without your seat belt, you need to manually disengage the parking brake.

Benedict

It's making more sense now. I think, though, that the designers of the new system may have overlooked some things. It wouldn't be all that weird for a driver to leave the car with the engine running. So you're on a country road and you're lost. You hop out to ask the way and the car is only on auto-hold? The car assumes that if the engine is running then you must be sitting in it. Not true! And if you've gently rolled to a stop and not used the brake pedal, it might not even be on auto hold.

Sometimes car-designers can be too smart altogether.

Danbo!

The auto brake comes on once the car comes to a complete stop using the foot brake (if you roll to a stop and dont full "engage" the foot brake, the auto brake will not come on.) When the engine is on, the (p) symbol is green to show auto hold. If the engine is then turned off, you can hear the EPB engage automatically, and the (P) symbol turns red, so no need to manually hit the EPB switch every time, it's likely in the manual just in case. Auto hold is basically just pushing down the foot brake for you, whereas EPB is applying a handbrake.

There is some logic built in to do with the drivers door being open, it wont release the brake I think, but havent fully figured that out. I discovered this when trying to fix up a poor parking job and the door was open.

So I think the designers have a lot of this covered. One thing I will say is, jesus do you get used to it quick. I had to move my mothers car a while back and I think I've forgotten how to hill start.

vectra

Benedict wrote: »

It's making more sense now. I think, though, that the designers of the new system may have overlooked some things. It wouldn't be all that weird for a driver to leave the car with the engine running. So you're on a country road and you're lost. You hop out to ask the way and the car is only on auto-hold? The car assumes that if the engine is running then you must be sitting in it. Not true! And if you've gently rolled to a stop and not used the brake pedal, it might not even be on auto hold.

Sometimes car-designers can be too smart altogether.

I think you are looking way too deep into it.
Just put it on auto snd drive on.
Enjoy it rather than have it annoy you.

mickdw

Benedict wrote: »

It's making more sense now. I think, though, that the designers of the new system may have overlooked some things. It wouldn't be all that weird for a driver to leave the car with the engine running. So you're on a country road and you're lost. You hop out to ask the way and the car is only on auto-hold? The car assumes that if the engine is running then you must be sitting in it. Not true! And if you've gently rolled to a stop and not used the brake pedal, it might not even be on auto hold.

Sometimes car-designers can be too smart altogether.

Ah Jesus you are looking for faults that are not there. It oies not replace driver common sense. If you jump out of started car with zero brakes applied, that is your problem same add it always was.
The system is excellent but cannot be designed to cover off foolish behaviour.
Day to day, hill hold and parking brake will work seemlessly and fully automatically to take care of hill starts and parking situation.
If a driver wants to roll to a stop on a piece of road level enough to allow the car to remain stationary so that they can jump out without any brakes applied and the car then somehow rolls away down that none existent Hill, it is driver stupidity.

Benedict

Yes, I must say the Tig is a lovely car to drive. I suppose it is true that you just have to make sure you watch for the "P" (either green or red) before you exit the car. Then you should be okay. It could happen that you roll to a stop and exit the car while the keys are still in the ignition (or even left running if the weather is cold). This happens a lot in rural Ireland where we don't worry so much about our car being stolen.
But yes, I suppose you just have to be aware of what can happen and this was also a danger with the old hand brake.

mickdw

I did a quick bit of experimenting with a vw passat.
To clarify. if you press the foot brake and have the green Hill hold showing, the parking brake is automatically activated if you open the car door while started and green light turns to red light on dash.
Even if you roll to a stop without touching the brake and attempt to leave the car while started, the parking brake is automatically activated and red light shows.
It's basically idiot proof, much more so that I believed although I knew it was an excellent system.

Danbo!

mickdw wrote: »

I did a quick bit of experimenting with a vw passat.
To clarify. if you press the foot brake and have the green Hill hold showing, the parking brake is automatically activated if you open the car door while started and green light turns to red light on dash.
Even if you roll to a stop without touching the brake and attempt to leave the car while started, the parking brake is automatically activated and red light shows.
It's basically idiot proof, much more so that I believed although I knew it was an excellent system.

Ha, I did the same this evening in my golf after this got me curious on the door open thing and came here to post the same.

The only time in 2 years I've been frustrated is reverse parking into a downhill sloped space, where I'd usually just roll the car back and adjust speed using only the brake, but it kept engaging the auto hold. This was a very rare edge case and the only time I briefly knocked it off so, yes, it is an excellent system.

delly

This reminds me of an episode of motorway cops in the UK. A range rover evoque was stuck dead in the outside lane of the motorway, but the owner or cops couldn't get the handbrake to disengage for love nor money. They ended up having to drag it onto a recovery truck with wheels still locked.

A post scene voiceover said that as each attempt to move or push the car was done with the door open, the safety system wouldn't allow the brake to disengage.

Benedict

On two occasions the EPB engaged and wouldn't allow me to move off. I turned off and on the engine and it became okay. I haven't really gone on about this because I felt that maybe I was doing something wrong and it was my fault. I've heard, though, that the EPB suddenly can engage while driving along and this could be really dangerous. Imagine passing an articulated truck and the EPB switches on? Computers can have a mind of their own.

The door-open thing could be another issue. If I'm inching into a tight space I would often open the door while I'm parking and look down at the ground to see where the white line is. I must try this with the Tiguan to see if the EPB slams on.

And you know the way sometimes maybe your coat (or the seatbelt or something) could be caught in the door and you might open the door while driving along and tug your coat and then shut the door again? Could this trigger the EPB I wonder?

I've also heard that not having the seat belt on can affect both the green and the red brake lights but I haven't looked into this yet.

One thing everyone should remember is that if the foot brakes fail, you can pull up the EPB and hold it up and it will help to bring the car to a stop.

vectra

No disrespect,
But I think you
A0
Are nervous of the auto system.

B Trying to find issues with it.
Put it on auto
Drive properly and it will do its job perfectly well.
I drove a new tiguan last Saturday and the auto brake worked exactlyas it does in my 152 Passat.

mickdw

ya. I give up. possibly look at getting a different car.

vectra

mickdw wrote: »

ya. I give up. possibly look at getting a different car.

With an old school handbrake.

Benedict

The comments were definitely helpful. Maybe other people have also been worried by the new-fangled braking systems. In time, people will get used to them. Then, I suppose, there will be something newer still arriving on the market just to keep us all confused.

Danbo!

Benedict wrote: »

The comments were definitely helpful. Maybe other people have also been worried by the new-fangled braking systems. In time, people will get used to them. Then, I suppose, there will be something newer still arriving on the market just to keep us all confused.

The idea of these systems is you don't have to think about them. I know a few people who have them and from day 1 it was just something you forgot about rather than overthinking it. It automates part of your driving so you do less.

mickdw

OSI wrote: »

Have had a Golf with the electronic handbrake for a year now and haven't touched the button once.

I know alot of people who got the passat back in 05 with the button parking brake and couldn't make any sense of it. They didn't seem to know that it was self releasing so in effect it was useless.
They were sitting on hills pushing the button to release with foot on brake meaning they then had to do hill start without parking brake.
I actually showed one person how it works and they loved it even though they had been giving out about it for a month.

Benedict

There is still a lot of public confusion. The old hand-brake was the business. It was either on or it wasn't on. Now we have the full parking brake and then you have the one that just holds the car but it isn't regarded as being as reliable as the full parking brake.

So when you want to leave the car you need the full parking brake but if you're on a hill you only need the kind of provisional parking brake which isn't quite as reliable as the full parking brake - but it'll do. Because you're only on a hill and hey! Sure you'll be moving off in a minute won't you? So what's your problem. But don't even think about actually leaving the car without the full brake being on.

We now have handbrake level 1 and handbrake level 2.

Toyotafanboi

It's actually all the same brake, it's just intelligent/ automatic.

Danbo!

Benedict wrote: »

There is still a lot of public confusion. The old hand-brake was the business. It was either on or it wasn't on. Now we have the full parking brake and then you have the one that just holds the car but it isn't regarded as being as reliable as the full parking brake.

So when you want to leave the car you need the full parking brake but if you're on a hill you only need the kind of provisional parking brake which isn't quite as reliable as the full parking brake - but it'll do. Because you're only on a hill and hey! Sure you'll be moving off in a minute won't you? So what's your problem. But don't even think about actually leaving the car without the full brake being on.

We now have handbrake level 1 and handbrake level 2.

Have we not fully established that you cannot leave the car without the "full" brake on? Seriously, you're really overthinking this, try enjoying it

mickdw

Benedict wrote: »

There is still a lot of public confusion. The old hand-brake was the business. It was either on or it wasn't on. Now we have the full parking brake and then you have the one that just holds the car but it isn't regarded as being as reliable as the full parking brake.

So when you want to leave the car you need the full parking brake but if you're on a hill you only need the kind of provisional parking brake which isn't quite as reliable as the full parking brake - but it'll do. Because you're only on a hill and hey! Sure you'll be moving off in a minute won't you? So what's your problem. But don't even think about actually leaving the car without the full brake being on.

We now have handbrake level 1 and handbrake level 2.

This has been explained numerous times.
If you want to call Hill hold level 1 and parking brake level 2, that's fine but for the last time.
If you pull up on a hill and level 1 brake is holding the car, no matter what idiotic move you decide to make, the car is smart enough to apply the appropriate brake so if you jump out of the car started on Hill hold only, the car will apply the parking brake automatically as soon as you open the drivers door. It's idiot proof.
Even if you jump out of your car when the stop start has killed the engine, the car will automatically switch off and apply the full parking brake.
I don't know what you fail to understand about this.
It simple, straightforward and literally operates fully automatically.

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It's actually all the same brake, it's just intelligent/ automatic.

The hill hold typically operates on the hydraulic brake system while the parking brake operates via electric motors on the rear calipers only.

Benedict

Yes, I understand the system perfectly, I just don't think that two separate parking brake systems are necessary. One, if you're on a hill and the lights are red, the other, if you want to go shopping. Locking only the rear brakes was always good enough before. All of a sudden, if you're only stopped at the lights, it's all four wheels, if you want to go shopping, it's just the back wheels.

With the old system, it was just the back wheels in all parking situations and nobody complained. It worked fine.

This two-tier parking brake system was dreamt up by a bunch of bored designers trying to justify their existence by solving a problem which didn't exist.

vectra

Benedict wrote: »

Yes, I understand the system perfectly, I just don't think that two separate parking brake systems are necessary. One, if you're on a hill and the lights are red, the other, if you want to go shopping. Locking only the rear brakes was always good enough before. All of a sudden, if you're only stopped at the lights, it's all four wheels, if you want to go shopping, it's just the back wheels.

With the old system, it was just the back wheels in all parking situations and nobody complained. It worked fine.

This two-tier parking brake system was dreamt up by a bunch of bored designers trying to justify their existence by solving a problem which didn't exist.

I don't understand what you are moaning about to be honest.
You stop on a hill and the car holds itself until you decide to take off again, with no intervention from the driver.

Same thing when you want to park the car, you simply turn off the engine and the handbrake activates. You return to the car next trip, start the engine and put it in gear, then drive off.
again with no intervention from the driver.

I think it is a fantastic system. I test drove a couple of cars with old school handbrakes and the felt so dated because of that.

mickdw

He is clearly trolling at this stage. If not, I don't believe he could be and most certainly shouldnt be in possession of a driving licence.